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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Altair said:
I'm no card carrying member of the CPC, but can you really call the SOCONs a fringe group?

They won Scheer the leadership and they won true blue conservative O'Toole the leadership over red tory Mackay. And enough people were reportedly mad enough over the conversion therapy vote to oust O'Toole.

Doesnt seem very fringe to me.
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I use fringe in the context of main stream Canadian opinion. The majority of urban voters, who by extention make up the majority of eligible voters are pro choice, pro LGBTQ2+, and are more socially liberal. The socon elements are primarily rural, and religious, primarily Christian. Canadians don't want republican style Christian politics forced on then.
 
Brad Sallows said:
Blaming one group for another group's faults. You just shat yourself big time.
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I'm blaming the CPC for not presenting themselves as a viable alternative to the LPC.

That means everything from their leader to their platform, to their stances, to their campaign, to the MPs they decide to run. Top to bottom, if the CPC cannot convince Canadians that they are a viable alternative to the LPC, who's fault it that? Not the voters. The CPC doesn't get to claim their votes anymore than the NDP, Bloc or PPC.

No, its the fault of the party as a whole. Unless their stated goal is to be a protest party, a la Bloc Quebecois or the NDP to some extent, in which case not getting the most seats and forming government is fine. But if its a national party with asperations of governing, then its a failure, one they would do well to correct.

Or they can double down on unpopular stances around guns, abortion, childcare and the like and then complain when they lose.
Brad Sallows said:
...of one survey. Well done.
Click to expand...

another one for good measure.
 
MilEME09 said:
I use fringe in the context of main stream Canadian opinion. The majority of urban voters, who by extention make up the majority of eligible voters are pro choice, pro LGBTQ2+, and are more socially liberal. The socon elements are primarily rural, and religious, primarily Christian. Canadians don't want republican style Christian politics forced on then.
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Ah, seen.

Yes, in that context it is fringe, but that fringe seems more than happy to drag down the CPC so long as they get to express their views. Sad really.
 
Altair said:
Yet when painted as the party of anti abortion, Conservatives bristle or run from the topic.

Yet every time they are painted as the party of anti abortion, and their support in the public drops, it's the LPC fault for smearing them.

This status quo the CPC tries to manage is untenable. One cannot say they are not the party of anti abortion when they are the only party in parliament that brings it up. They cannot say they are not the party of anti abortion when they are the only party that welcomes anti abortion voices.

And so long as they do, 6 out of 10 Canadians wont vote for them. The LPC and NDP both have more Canadians would would consider voting for them than the CPC does.

If that is the price the CPC want to pay for their tolerant stance on the abortion issue, well, I hope Conservatives don't complain when they continue to lose elections.
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The CPC gained more votes than the LPC in both the last two elections. Gerrymandering has caused the CPC vote to be misrepresented in seats won.

I am personally pro-life and agree with supporting people who don't want an abortion. Steven Harper's government pledged to make the abortion vote a matter of choice in parliament whereas the previous liberal government dictated what its members could vote. (Not very pro-choice there)
When the free vote was defeated Harper moved on. I think that was a very wise decision, Canada spoke and he accepted that decision. Harper's government also created the UCCB in part to help support those who did choose not to abort.

The current narrative coming from the government is if you disagree with us you are misogynist, racist, bigoted etc. (again not very pro-choice)
MilEME09 said:
I use fringe in the context of main stream Canadian opinion. The majority of urban voters, who by extention make up the majority of eligible voters are pro choice, pro LGBTQ2+, and are more socially liberal. The socon elements are primarily rural, and religious, primarily Christian. Canadians don't want republican style Christian politics forced on then.
Click to expand...

I disagree, the Liberal push from the urban ridings is likely more because of the LPC immigration policies. The urban ridings have many more Muslim followers than LGBTQ2+. I don't have to remind anyone on the Muslim stance on LGBTQ2+. Yet the Muslims continue to vote LPC, this is either because the LPC is viewed as anti-Christian or because of the LPC immigration agenda. I believe the latter is correct.

The Harper government didn't force Christian politics on the people. The current LPC government IS forcing liberal ideology on people. For the CPC to succeed they need to leave the abortion issue aside and focus on their other policies (Like Harper did). They have already shown that the majority of Canadians who bother to vote agree with their policies, now they need to work a little harder to gain the seats needed to win an election. This will not be won by returning the abortion debate. The LPC hopes the CPC does return the abortion debate because that would ensure the CPC failure.
 
Dana381 said:
The CPC gained more votes than the LPC in both the last two elections. Gerrymandering has caused the CPC vote to be misrepresented in seats won.
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Gerrymandering? By who? Elections Canada? Did they make it so the ridings disproportionately favored the LPC?

Or is it simply the CPC gets massive wins in western Canada and not enough in eastern Canada?
Dana381 said:
I am personally pro-life and agree with supporting people who don't want an abortion. Steven Harper's government pledged to make the abortion vote a matter of choice in parliament whereas the previous liberal government dictated what its members could vote. (Not very pro-choice there)
When the free vote was defeated Harper moved on. I think that was a very wise decision, Canada spoke and he accepted that decision. Harper's government also created the UCCB in part to help support those who did choose not to abort.
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Harper was smart in that regard, as he squashed any further votes on the matter. O'Toole and Sheer have both allowed votes to happen which again, only CPC members of parliament voted yes on, again allowing the CPC to be painted as the party of anti abortion.
Dana381 said:
The current narrative coming from the government is if you disagree with us you are misogynist, racist, bigoted etc. (again not very pro-choice)
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Pro choice in terms of allowing a woman to decide whether or not to have a child or abort. The choice to view that a fundamental right is not the lack of choice as much as a it is standing up for a womans freedom to decide what best to do with her body.
Dana381 said:
I disagree, the Liberal push from the urban ridings is likely more because of the LPC immigration policies. The urban ridings have many more Muslim followers than LGBTQ2+. I don't have to remind anyone on the Muslim stance on LGBTQ2+. Yet the Muslims continue to vote LPC, this is either because the LPC is viewed as anti-Christian or because of the LPC immigration agenda. I believe the latter is correct.

The Harper government didn't force Christian politics on the people. The current LPC government IS forcing liberal ideology on people. For the CPC to succeed they need to leave the abortion issue aside and focus on their other policies (Like Harper did). They have already shown that the majority of Canadians who bother to vote agree with their policies, now they need to work a little harder to gain the seats needed to win an election. This will not be won by returning the abortion debate. The LPC hopes the CPC does return the abortion debate because that would ensure the CPC failure.
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This is exactly right, but I get the sense that O'Toole was turfed as leader not so they can leave issues like abortion behind.
 
Gerrymandering?

Cary Elwes Disney Plus GIF by Disney+
 
OldSolduer said:
Trolling again. One picture says it all, right? Never mind that persons service to the country.
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Very good people on both sides is something former President Trump said about the protestors in Charlottesville, which included white nationalist elements.

So is it surprising someone who wears a MAGA hat, most of those being Trump supporters, would say the same?
 
Dana381 said:
The Harper government didn't force Christian politics on the people. The current LPC government IS forcing liberal ideology on people. For the CPC to succeed they need to leave the abortion issue aside and focus on their other policies (Like Harper did). They have already shown that the majority of Canadians who bother to vote agree with their policies, now they need to work a little harder to gain the seats needed to win an election. This will not be won by returning the abortion debate. The LPC hopes the CPC does return the abortion debate because that would ensure the CPC failure.
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What political party in the history of political parties hasn't when they are in power?
 
Brad Sallows said:
Old-style PC isn't going very far if it just picks up where it left off while it was in Mulroney's hands. There will have to compromises based on trades of equal value.
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What would be the problem with a Brian Mulroney like PC party? I mean I didn't like the corruption, patronage and fiscal mismanagement, but I hope the CPC returns to an electable position to provide an alternative to the LPC. This last election was the first time I voted Conservative since Mulroney
 
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