Yikes ! (STAT)
- Thread starter Farmboy
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Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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....Off on a tangent. Reminds me of paintballers who spend thousands of dollars on equipment and get shot in the hand with in the first 3 minutes then complain, forever. Always an excuse for poor performance with that type.
Hey Franko, whats an FN?
Hey Franko, whats an FN?
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I think there is a vast amount of shooting knowledge and experience in the civvie world, as well as the military world.
There are also total plugs in both realms.
I have some experience and am comfortable and confident in my knowledge obtained from civvie shooting experience, and I somewhat comfortable with my military firearms experience (and getting more so). I do not think I will ever be a master sniper, or achieve too many marksmanship awards, but I score well in my PWT‘s and in civvie land, I hit the targets consistently with good groupings.
Since I do not compete, either in the military or outside of it, I do not concentrate too much on achieving the highest scores possible or testing the limitations of the firearms I use.
I believe it is grossly unfair to compare military to civilian shooting, and visa versa. Like I said, there is an ample amount of experience on both sides of the fence.
I can just as easily find examples of very poor firearms habits in both areas, as well. I will say that as a general rule, the civilian world is not overly impressed with the military attitude towards safety, etc.
Just this week, on the DP2A support weapons course, I‘ve had the 9mm pistol pointed at me numerous times by my fellow classmates, simply because of a lack of care and attention to safety. Most of this is when soldiers are spinning the pistol on their finger like Clint Eastwood, or pretending to be JTF2 house clearers when rounding corners. In the civvie world, this would earn you a criminal charge for "point firearm" and would get you thrown out of any safety course or gun club in the country.
Likewise, civvie shooters do not always know everything there is to know about weapons, and in any event have different goals and applications.
The bottom line is, IMO, "My civ/mil experience is better than yours" is a pedestrian and irrelevant comparison to make. This goes equally for the new kids who have vast opinions on shooting based on zero experience, as well as old dogs who are entirely familiar with one scope or aspect of weapons (either mil or civ) and have never even seen or experienced the other.
There are also total plugs in both realms.
I have some experience and am comfortable and confident in my knowledge obtained from civvie shooting experience, and I somewhat comfortable with my military firearms experience (and getting more so). I do not think I will ever be a master sniper, or achieve too many marksmanship awards, but I score well in my PWT‘s and in civvie land, I hit the targets consistently with good groupings.
Since I do not compete, either in the military or outside of it, I do not concentrate too much on achieving the highest scores possible or testing the limitations of the firearms I use.
I believe it is grossly unfair to compare military to civilian shooting, and visa versa. Like I said, there is an ample amount of experience on both sides of the fence.
I can just as easily find examples of very poor firearms habits in both areas, as well. I will say that as a general rule, the civilian world is not overly impressed with the military attitude towards safety, etc.
Just this week, on the DP2A support weapons course, I‘ve had the 9mm pistol pointed at me numerous times by my fellow classmates, simply because of a lack of care and attention to safety. Most of this is when soldiers are spinning the pistol on their finger like Clint Eastwood, or pretending to be JTF2 house clearers when rounding corners. In the civvie world, this would earn you a criminal charge for "point firearm" and would get you thrown out of any safety course or gun club in the country.
Likewise, civvie shooters do not always know everything there is to know about weapons, and in any event have different goals and applications.
The bottom line is, IMO, "My civ/mil experience is better than yours" is a pedestrian and irrelevant comparison to make. This goes equally for the new kids who have vast opinions on shooting based on zero experience, as well as old dogs who are entirely familiar with one scope or aspect of weapons (either mil or civ) and have never even seen or experienced the other.
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PCG
I read your post and, while trying to be fare to both groups,You have somewhat missed the point.
The civvies shooting world has all kinds of people who can shoot. I know because I have belonged to and shot with numerous gun clubs and individuals who own and operate weapons.
As a matter of fact, the last award I won in the service was for pistol shooting. The award was DCRA/ORA, conducted at the ranges in Borden. It is a military shoot, designed by civvies, specifically for the reserves. The tradition goes back several hundred years or so.
No one is disputing anyones ability to shoot.
My issue with the creator of this post is his belief that the Military takes second place to civvies who shoot. His comments, posted on a military forum are antagonistic and provocative toward the military members here...He also seems very uninformed about military shooting and, judging by his profile, has not been in the service for any decent length of time and is not capable of distinguishing the two different applications.
If you have witness some Jerk pointing a weapon at you or anyone else then you should have done something about it! If the person is your friend them tell them off, if not see the MCPL in charge. Bad weapons handling has no excuses attached to it. I know as I lost an uncle to some jerk discharging his weapon "by accident".
We are here to discuss things in a calm and civilized manner. That does not include having someone making statements like the poster of this thread did.
It reflects badly on himself and the rest of us and makes this forum look foolish in the eyes of who ever else comes to see what is happening here.
Slim
I read your post and, while trying to be fare to both groups,You have somewhat missed the point.
The civvies shooting world has all kinds of people who can shoot. I know because I have belonged to and shot with numerous gun clubs and individuals who own and operate weapons.
As a matter of fact, the last award I won in the service was for pistol shooting. The award was DCRA/ORA, conducted at the ranges in Borden. It is a military shoot, designed by civvies, specifically for the reserves. The tradition goes back several hundred years or so.
No one is disputing anyones ability to shoot.
My issue with the creator of this post is his belief that the Military takes second place to civvies who shoot. His comments, posted on a military forum are antagonistic and provocative toward the military members here...He also seems very uninformed about military shooting and, judging by his profile, has not been in the service for any decent length of time and is not capable of distinguishing the two different applications.
If you have witness some Jerk pointing a weapon at you or anyone else then you should have done something about it! If the person is your friend them tell them off, if not see the MCPL in charge. Bad weapons handling has no excuses attached to it. I know as I lost an uncle to some jerk discharging his weapon "by accident".
We are here to discuss things in a calm and civilized manner. That does not include having someone making statements like the poster of this thread did.
It reflects badly on himself and the rest of us and makes this forum look foolish in the eyes of who ever else comes to see what is happening here.
Slim
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Obviously there will be no changing of minds or opinion on this.
The one thing I would like to clear up is this misconception that I think the military shooting is second to civvy shooting.
In my comments I was responding to one of you who said you are sick of questions from kids who shoot ground hogs with .22s.
What we all do agree upon is shooting at a civvy range is alot difference then combat shooting. Even if some of the matches were devoloped for police marksman (Listowel) and the Sniper and Service matches (ORA) they do not have return fire.
And the whole point of the thread was when 10 of you lambasted a kid for asking about the Pathfinders and then locked the thread, instead of answering and then locking the thread.
You must realize by now that you will get the same questions over and over and over again.
The one thing I would like to clear up is this misconception that I think the military shooting is second to civvy shooting.
Does that say that anywhere? What I did compare was the kids and adults who shoot ground hogs every day to alot of CF members who shoot once or twice a year.
In my comments I was responding to one of you who said you are sick of questions from kids who shoot ground hogs with .22s.
What we all do agree upon is shooting at a civvy range is alot difference then combat shooting. Even if some of the matches were devoloped for police marksman (Listowel) and the Sniper and Service matches (ORA) they do not have return fire.
And the whole point of the thread was when 10 of you lambasted a kid for asking about the Pathfinders and then locked the thread, instead of answering and then locking the thread.
You must realize by now that you will get the same questions over and over and over again.
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Wow it took 48 comments to put a sock in this guys brain...lol good points from both sided..I still say if there hammerin you get up dust youself of..take there advice and move on and dont complain with a 48 comment essay topic.
Peace..Thats what we are peacekeepers.
Peace..Thats what we are peacekeepers.
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tmbluesbflat
Guest
I don‘t know how things compare today, however I qualified for cross rifle and crown every year 1962-1968 that was pretty good at the time. After I left the service. I of course hunted most every year until about 12 years ago, I reloaded, most mid size calibers, my favourite 8x57js best at downing bigger game min of angle accuracy, easy to shoot. I don‘t know how I would do these days, new types of gear different objectives. I prospect ,Geologist etc and carry a 357, scares teddies some. I was in good shape in ‘90 but today, run down I don‘t know but I would bet qualifing today would be some piece of work!
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tmbluesbflat
Guest
Hey! anybody remember the backward forward action on the Fn C1A1, The trigger is depressed.....
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tmbluesbflat
Guest
Slim I‘m not familiar with the glock, but the BHP is easy to get accurate with for people with fairly large hands, first thing to know is that the barrel must be as close to straight in line with the forearm and the wrist straight/flat as much as possible also with the forearm, an old Pistol Team 1PPCLI Cpl showed me that(Al Redman)
back in 63 get the but wedged into the web tightly between the thumb and forefinger, worked for me, and until it got lost in a river crossing I used my BHP for teddie duty for about 15 years, still miss it!
back in 63 get the but wedged into the web tightly between the thumb and forefinger, worked for me, and until it got lost in a river crossing I used my BHP for teddie duty for about 15 years, still miss it!
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I managed to get a few golds with the BHP but it took alot of practice. After that shooting a Glock 17 is so easy I almost don‘t have to open my eyes...!
Seriously, shooting with the BHP has given me the ability to really learn theory of pistol and marksmanship. I now concentrate on instincive shooting in real-world enviorments and settings rather than accuracy paper punching (which is still fun!).
Where do you shoot?
Slim
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tmbluesbflat
Guest
I rarely shoot anymore. I carry my .357 Smith in a shoulder rig when prospecting, scares teddies. But instinctive shooting is really what soldiers need to learn. When I was a kid, we lived in the bush(Blue River) and an old mtn man, Angus Horne Taught me to shoot when I was 7/8, with a.22, .22hornet and his ,45/70 the rifle he hunted with his philosophy was that you got it right the first time because mostly there was only one time. I have hunted most of my life and at one time was very proficient with all manner of weapons, from that time on.
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I don‘t udnerstand you people, you‘re all basicly saying the same thing over and over...you‘re point was stated and then restated and so on. It‘s quite ridiculous considering how many people are complaining about all the space being taken up. You‘re all taking up space with the same point being stated over and over.
