Winter Warfare

[Jagd]

Hey, I was in the topic on army courses and I was wondering if there is anyone out there that can help me out. Where can I find information on the Winter Warfare courses?

 

[Standards]

Not too sure what you are looking for, but I will give it a shot.  The Winter Warfare qualification can be received in two ways.  Either complete the Winter Warfare course (AGLW) in 5 days or complete the SQ course including the winter warfare supplemental material.  Essentially this is a winter warfare course tacked on to the SQ. 

The course can be run pretty much anywhere as the only requirements are snow and cold (what part of Canada doesn't that apply to for a few months of the year - other than Victoria).

There is also an Advanced Winter warfare Course run out of Wainwright once each year.  It is 43 days long and includes a long ex in the arctic.  Prerequisites are Basic Winter Warfare, MCpl and a medical showing you haven't previously had frostbite.

 

[Jagd]

Thanks for the help. If anybody else can think of anything offhand or even any site that might help i'd appreciate it.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Could someone elaborate on the reasons prior frostbite is a concern?

 

[Blakey]

All things Basic Winter Warfare (AGLW) http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/38cbg_arsd/CD/bww/QS/WinterWarfareBasic.doc
[Edit] Example Course Report http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/38cbg_arsd/CD/CourseReports/BWW.doc [/Edit]

Could someone elaborate on the reasons prior frostbite is a concern?

Missed that one.
Once you get frostbite, you become more susceptible to get get it next time you are in that enviorment. Im sure our Medic members could elaborate more.  

As well, all you folks who travel to WATC for your corses can get all your information here. IE, joining intructions ect...
http://www.army.dnd.ca/watc/joininstr/courses_e.htm

 

[Da_man]

Winter warfare?  Freezing your ass off, setting your 10 man tent on fire... good times. 

 

[JBP]

Not too sure what you are looking for, but I will give it a shot.  The Winter Warfare qualification can be received in two ways.  Either complete the Winter Warfare course (AGLW) in 5 days or complete the SQ course including the winter warfare supplemental material.  Essentially this is a winter warfare course tacked on to the SQ. 

The course can be run pretty much anywhere as the only requirements are snow and cold (what part of Canada doesn't that apply to for a few months of the year - other than Victoria).

There is also an Advanced Winter warfare Course run out of Wainwright once each year.  It is 43 days long and includes a long ex in the arctic.  Prerequisites are Basic Winter Warfare, MCpl and a medical showing you haven't previously had frostbite.

Can a reservist take this course also? I've always wanted to become very well rounded and eventually wanted Desert warfare+jungle etc.. But soon realised that is almost nigh impossible, so I might as well plan for the future and what I CAN get! Once I'm a MCpl about 4-5yrs down the road I hope... I know many courses are reg force and not reserve though......

 

[Standards]

Many Reserve units/brigades run the Basic Winter Warfare so that should not be difficult to get.  The Advanced Winter Warfare has a few positions allocated to Reserves, so it is possible to get on it but difficult due to the competition (keep in mind its only run once per year).

Jungle and Desert Warfare are typically only done as an exchange with a foreign military or as part of the preparation for a specific deployment.  Therefore they are both fairly rare even for Reg Force personnel.

 

[JBP]

Many Reserve units/brigades run the Basic Winter Warfare so that should not be difficult to get.  The Advanced Winter Warfare has a few positions allocated to Reserves, so it is possible to get on it but difficult due to the competition (keep in mind its only run once per year).

Jungle and Desert Warfare are typically only done as an exchange with a foreign military or as part of the preparation for a specific deployment.  Therefore they are both fairly rare even for Reg Force personnel.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep my eyes peeled when I come back from the summer in Sept for the next courses availible, I would imagine 31 CBG has that running.

Joe

 

[Infanteer]

I got winter warfare - fun stuff.  We did it with the Brits and the Course Officer wanted us to do a water crossing at -40.  Lucky for us the stream froze over.

"PULL POLE"!!!

 

[oittoi]

Hope it's not too irrelevant to this topic, but is winter warfare and mountain warfare different stuff?  Some people told me winter warfare is basically fighting in the mountain during cold weather and mountain warfare covers both winter warfare AND fighting in rugged terrain.  Any ideas?  I'm interested in mountain warfare (fan of German Gebirgsjaeger stuff... and also armoured) and wondering whether there's training like that in CF ???

 

[Standards]

Yes, Winter Warfare and Basic Mountain Operations are two separate courses.

The Basic Mountain Ops course (AGLY) is 7 days long.  Student prerequisites include QL 3 (DP 1 completed, includes BMQ, SQ and trades training), current first aid, passes physical fitness test and medically fit.  The course is run at unit level, but since the instructors are to be qualified Advanced Mountain Operations, few units (outside of Reg F infantry) have the required personnel.

 

[Dirt Digger]

Jungle and Desert Warfare are typically only done as an exchange with a foreign military or as part of the preparation for a specific deployment.   Therefore they are both fairly rare even for Reg Force personnel.

All the jungle and desert courses I've seen are done through foreign military courses.  SERE instructors at CFSSAT have the option of taking them after they complete their SERE indoc training (Cdn SERE and a foreign SERE course), along with a few other high-speed courses.

As they are the rare "one-of" type courses, I'm too low on the priority list to swing one (instructors first).  Alas...we send guys on a jungle course in Australia

 

[392]

Some people told me winter warfare is basically fighting in the mountain during cold weather and mountain warfare covers both winter warfare AND fighting in rugged terrain.  

I think those "people" need to either get a schmick of what they're talking about or stop talking....

 

[392]

All the jungle and desert courses I've seen are done through foreign military courses.  

We sent a field troop down to Panama to do the JW course in 96 or 97. That was supposed to be the "beginning" of a multitude of "light" courses for the unit, but as with a lot of other ideas, that went out the door when the CO at the time left....

 

[GO!!!]

Standards - BMO is only 7 trg days?

I ask because my unit seems to run them from anwhere from 10-15 trg days - is this the unit extending the course, or has the course content changed a great deal in the last 3-5 yrs?

Thanx

 

[oittoi]

hey, thanks alot!
Do you know if any reserve unit in Toronto runs mountain warfare course? And is MW only infantry thing, or can armoured personnels also apply for the course if interested??

 

[Standards]

We sent a field troop down to Panama to do the JW course in 96 or 97.

I was a Sect Comd with 4 Tp, 2 CER in Nov/Dec 96 when we went with B Coy, 41st Engr Bn (from 10 Mtn Div, Ft Drum) to Ft Sherman, Panama (the Jungle Operations Training Center).  It was an interesting learning experience - you just don't find too much jungle in Canada.

Standards - BMO is only 7 trg days?

That's what the TP states.  If your unit is taking longer than they are adding in extra material (or CPC has changed things - historically they aren't real good at sharing info).

Do you know if any reserve unit in Toronto runs mountain warfare course? And is MW only infantry thing, or can armoured personnel also apply for the course if interested??

I don't know if any Toronto units are run BMO as I am LFWA.  Pers from all trades can take the course, but most commonly infantry will get it.  This is due their having more requirement and typically the infantry unit is providing all the instructors and running the course, therefore they get the majority of the positions.

 

[Vigilant]

Anybody can take it, it was covered in a thread several years ago. QOR might be running one next year (rumour from a Sgt.), but who knows.

If you're really interested there is plenty of mountain training civvy side. I went mountain climbing in BC last year and it was awesome. Something I learned is how most countries in the world have some sort of mountain range and how crucial it is to be able to move it that terrain. It's not very hard, it just takes practice (like rappelling).

To keep this post on topic, my unit runs a yearly winter warfare refresher every year and I'm sure most units do as well.

 

[JBP]

Say, anyone ever hear of some even called "Northern Drive" or something like this? My Section Cmdr was mentioning it, saying it's like a 10 day crse up in the artic circle. Also said he wouldn't do it ever in his life!

Just wondering if anyone has done this little adventure or been in the artic circle for any length of time?

Joe