Will the C17s Make it to the Ramp?

[observor 69]

C1302C17, if you are on course now would you have details of the depth of training you will be getting on the C17.  I am quite curious about the levels of 1st line maintenance you will be doing.  For example....  engine change?

Good question eurowing, who ya gonna call when your down for engines away from home?

 

[C1302C17 TECH]

C1302C17, if you are on course now would you have details of the depth of training you will be getting on the C17.  I am quite curious about the levels of 1st line maintenance you will be doing.  For example....  engine change?

I wish I was currently on course  ;D I could escape this weather..  However I have been slated to be on the second cadre that begins in July.  Perhapes there is someone whom is on this first course that can pipe in.  I would love to hear answers to this question.

 

[C1302C17 TECH]

Good question eurowing, who ya gonna call when your down for engines away from home?

From talking with people who attended the pre-course briefings certain TECHS will be ear marked to attend engine change courses and other special courses (engine run up, LOX system & countermeasures)

My understanding is that when the C17's are bounding across the pond they will use exsiting C17 bases for their transit.  Thus allowing access to C17 parts and special AMSE equipment.  From what I have heard in briefings the supply system is without borders, and any C17 operating country can get parts from the supply system without worrying about "borrowing" thanks to the in service support from Boeing.

 

[observor 69]

From talking with people who attended the pre-course briefings certain TECHS will be ear marked to attend engine change courses and other special courses (engine run up, LOX system & countermeasures)

My understanding is that when the C17's are bounding across the pond they will use exsiting C17 bases for their transit.  Thus allowing access to C17 parts and special AMSE equipment.  From what I have heard in briefings the supply system is without borders, and any C17 operating country can get parts from the supply system without worrying about "borrowing" thanks to the in service support from Boeing.

Ya I get it ref common parts. But I can see this could lead to some real strange possibilities ref farming out maintenance.
The old story "hell why don't we just rent lease out the US military gear?" and maintenance?

 

[C1302C17 TECH]

Ya I get it ref common parts. But I can see this could lead to some real strange possibilities ref farming out maintenance.
The old story "hell why don't we just rent lease out the US military gear?" and maintenance?

Currently when the C130 breaks down we send an MRP team out to go fix them, this requires us to fly aboard another aircraft with parts in tow from Trenton.  The nice thing with the C17 is that we will no longer be required to bring our own parts, nor will the USAF be required to have spares in Trenton when they land.  All parts will be owned by the US supply system with the Aussies, and Brits along with ourselves being "customers" to it.

MRP's will become easier as we will be able to even fly our techs aboard the Challangers, and the Yanks will supply the space, AMSE equipment and parts that we require, as it will be offered by us.  It is part of the entire contract - The GLOBAL MAINT. NETWORK or something along that line..

 

[geo]

Currently when the C130 breaks down we send an MRP team out to go fix them, this requires us to fly aboard another aircraft with parts in tow from Trenton.  The nice thing with the C17 is that we will no longer be required to bring our own parts, nor will the USAF be required to have spares in Trenton when they land.  All parts will be owned by the US supply system with the Aussies, and Brits along with ourselves being "customers" to it.

MRP's will become easier as we will be able to even fly our techs aboard the Challangers, and the Yanks will supply the space, AMSE equipment and parts that we require, as it will be offered by us.  It is part of the entire contract - The GLOBAL MAINT. NETWORK or something along that line..

Sooooo..... do you think that this is what is going to happen for the CC130Js, the CH47s, the C27Js and pert much all of the Airforce's rolling inventory? 

You do that and you certainly can't "canadianize" anything other than your cup holder and the woodland pine tree thingie hanging from your rearview miror.

 

[Globesmasher]

Sooooo..... do you think that this is what is going to happen for the CC130Js, the CH47s, the C27Js and pert much all of the Airforce's rolling inventory? 

You do that and you certainly can't "canadianize" anything other than your cup holder and the woodland pine tree thingie hanging from your rearview miror.

What the C-17/CC 177 will be participating in is called the GSP, The Globemaster Support Program.  It is a worldwide "virtual" fleet that will provide us with the parts and MX support that C1302C17 TECH has mentioned.  The system will not be the panacea or the magic bullet but it will be a giant step away from the old paradigm of using a large aircraft to ferry spare parts and techs on the MRP out to the required location.  There may still be some locations that require the old school MRP with spare parts etc ... or just a small MRP team that can travel on board a more comfortable and faster aircraft such as the Challenger as C1302C17 TECH alluded to.

However, that being said, should a Canadian C-17 breakdown in a C-17 supported location (for example:  Brize Norton or Ramstien, Incirlik .... to name a few) not only will our aircraft be supported by the GSP for the spare parts, but they will also be supported by USAF and/or Boeing support techs for the repair.  The program costs money, but there is a saving in the reduction of the number of required MRPs.

Whether or not we do this with the ACP-T (J model) or any other aircraft purchase is tough to say - I don't work on those projects.

The one "hitch" or catch to participation in the GSP and the virtual fleet is that we can do NO Canadian mods to the aircraft whatsoever.  The aircraft must be identical to the standard issue C-17.  We also are not permitted to change or adjust or modify the technical orders, job guides or the fligth manuals.  Basically the only thing that separates the aircraft between the USAF, RAF, RAAF, the CF and then the new NATO program will be the exterior paint job.  Once you step inside the aircraft it will look identical to every other tail.

So, I know we plan on Canadianizing the J model in terms of the self defense suite ... so I do not know what we are doing in terms of "virtual fleet" participation for those other airframes.  The GSP is just the way we have chosen to proceed with the C-17.

 

[geo]

One thing though.... virtual fleet suggests that the days of buying something and not keeping up with the upgrades will be a thing of the past as in "no longer be an option".

 

[Edward Campbell]

One thing though.... virtual fleet suggests that the days of buying something and not keeping up with the upgrades will be a thing of the past as in "no longer be an option".

I hope so.

Configuration management - the decision to modify, or not, in order to keep a system or fleet 'up to spec' - should be a key component of life cycle management, especially for complex, expensive systems and fleets.

Sometimes we have choices re: which 'standard' to maintain.  That was the case with, for example, the M113 family of vehicles - there were several 'standards' (US and others) which allowed Canadian managers to pick and choose amongst the ones most likely to meet our needs and pocketbooks.  With the C-17 one expects there will be a single 'standard' and we either stick with it or risk having an orphan fleet.

 

[Haletown]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if a Global Support System, like the Boeing model, was offered by EADS as part of their A400M paper airplane offer ??

 

[geo]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if a Global Support System, like the Boeing model, was offered by EADS as part of their A400M paper airplane offer ??

Considering the A400M is not flying yet, would be real hard to start a similar virtual fleet program.  As the production numbers start to stretch out & the airframes start multiplying it starts to work but.... in it's infancy... not likely.

 

[C1Dirty]

The one "hitch" or catch to participation in the GSP and the virtual fleet is that we can do NO Canadian mods to the aircraft whatsoever.  The aircraft must be identical to the standard issue C-17.  We also are not permitted to change or adjust or modify the technical orders, job guides or the fligth manuals.

With all due respect to the inventor of the Golden Wedge and the dude who decided to paint a fake bubble on the bottom of the F18 I think this (limiting Cdn input) is like barring a degenerate gambler from the casino...an excellent idea, especially the part about the flight manual. 

 

[geo]

With all due respect to the inventor of the Golden Wedge and the dude who decided to paint a fake bubble on the bottom of the F18 I think this (limiting Cdn input) is like barring a degenerate gambler from the casino...an excellent idea, especially the part about the flight manual. 

Some aspects of flying that we deal with, other users might not have to deal with.... this, some user notes are necessary.

 

[C1302C17 TECH]

What really needs to be done to the aircraft to make it a Canadian aircraft?  The Globemaster will be painted with our proud markings, and perhapes a larger cup holder for the XL Double Doubles - but like any other NATO country flying these they way they come will provide all we need, or should need.  What makes a A/C Canadian?  Sure we have modded the C130 to the point of making it truly a Canadian C130, but that's what happens after 40+ years of service, and making an older A/C suitable for our purposes.  I am sure the great folks at Boeing have now engineered an aircraft that will meet all needs that we require without the modding.  Unless they want to paint bubbles on the belly of the C17  ;D  I am looking forward to being part of this new venture, a new airframe and most importantly a new unit.  It will be great to be a TECH with a flying squadron.  No matter how I see it, right out of the box - Once we see the  on the tail, it's Canadian....

 

[Globesmasher]

It will be great to be a TECH with a flying squadron. 

Yes - this is one of the best things to happen to us.

Finally - back to Squadron maintenance.  This has been long overdue.
I can hardly wait either to have the maintainers part of the same unit/sqadron wearing the same crest.
Wing maintenance failed miserably ..... squadron maintenance is the way it should have stayed all along.

 

[peaches]

It's Canadian.... ;D ;D ;D

It can land on ice.........

 

[vonGarvin]

Sure...it can land on ice...that's not the important question.  Can it take off from ice AFTER landing on ice?  >

 

[daftandbarmy]

Forget all that 'landing' talk, what about parachuting? I assume that we will set them up for jumping  and air delivery too?

 

[aesop081]

Forget all that 'landing' talk, what about parachuting? I assume that we will set them up for jumping  and air delivery too?

Globemasher adressed that very point in one of his many very detailed posts...in this thread !!

 

[Haletown]

Anything and everything you wanted to know about the C 17, including jumping

http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c17.asp

many, many pictures . .  see "Image Gallery" near the top right side.  Lotsa shots of air drops - pg 2, 3, 4 maybe more.