Why we pay Reservists what we do (Including Reg v.s. Cl B v.s. Cl C pay, and Double-Dippin')

[d53642]

I doubt if those clerks get TD. The only way they would get TD is that they are there on course or TD'ed there to fill a temporary critical billet. If we as a reservist get posted, we don't get TD. I have a question for you, does that MS do the same work as you? Is that MS clerk in charge of you? Do you write that MS PER? Now yes the MS can put in notice to cut his/her contract, usually with 30 days notice, however the military can say no and keep you there(highly unlikely) if you are over 180 days Class B. If you as a regular force clerk wants to get out, you can put in your notice as well, I don't know about 30 days but you can leave as well.

Trust me they do, I watch them fill out the claim every month for it.

 

[armyvern]

Trust me they do, I watch them fill out the claim every month for it.

If they do, then they are TDd to that location -- not "posted" to that location. There's a HUGE difference. And, RegF members who are TDd to another Unit away from their "posted to" Unit also receive TD.

 

[Stoker]

Yep, because I'll guarantee you that IF Reservists who are NOT subject to the exact same things we are (taskings/tours/ability to say "no" to postings for myriad of reasons) start receiving the same pay that I receive while not being able to make those same "choices" and "refusals" ... then I'll be bicthing for MORE pay ... to make up for the "more" that I am subjected to and the "choices" that I do not receive like they do. And, the circle continues ...

And, it's time to go Army if you ain't painting boats in Bermuda anymore!!   >

I agree Vern IF we are ever given the extra 15% we should be subject to the same postings/taskings as the rest. I think the Canadian reserve system should be overhauled and a variation of the American system be used. Everyone joins the same, the same trades training and you are given a choice to go regular or reserve. If you are reserve you can go active or inactive. The active persons are intergraded within the regular forces and are subject to the same postings as there regular counterparts. If a regular forces wants a break or wants to go back to school etc, they can seamlessly transfer to the reserves and go inactive. The system we have now is cumberson at best, for example when you go to regs from reserves you actually have to "get out" for one day and then "rejoin" the regs. There has to be a better system.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I have a question for you, does that MS do the same work as you? Is that MS clerk in charge of you? Do you write that MS PER? Now yes the MS can put in notice to cut his/her contract, usually with 30 days notice, however the military can say no and keep you there(highly unlikely) if you are over 180 days Class B. If you as a regular force clerk wants to get out, you can put in your notice as well, I don't know about 30 days but you can leave as well.

Stoker,

Not to throw rocks here but you are only focused on that 'do the same work' part.  There is more to it than that, which is the point of my post earlier on this page.

 

[armyvern]

I agree Vern IF we are ever given the extra 15% we should be subject to the same postings/taskings as the rest...

Then there'd be no more ResF ... we'd all be one in the same, and you could find yourself (and your family) on the move to NDHQ/Goose Bay/Wainwright (as a trg cell staff etc) etc tomorrow with no ability to say "no".

Like someone else has already posted ...

"Be very careful what you wish for ... you might just get it."

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Haven't I read this thread a few times before?

 

[armyvern]

Haven't I read this thread a few times before?

Yep, every time that equal pay for equal work is brought up ... and the differences between "service requirements between the two" begins to be discussed.

 

[Stoker]

Here's a big difference in your above scenario that you fail to make mention of:

If the ResF member puts in his 30 days notice to get out of a contracted posn they no longer want to serve in -- he will get out of the particluar contract, BUT he still has a job in the ResF and can STILL sign another contract for another BClass posn somewhere that he wants/chooses to.

The RegF pers putting in their notice -- has NO more job. They are RELEASED.

That is absolutely NOT the case with a ResF pers putting in 30 days notice to get out of a BClass contract etc.

That's one hell of a difference to be overlooking, and actually only serves as one more "substantiating reason" for that 15% difference in pay between the two.

Apples/Oranges.

Your're right Vern, its not the same. I guess these will always be reasons for that 15% difference in pay. For us in my trade, if you do cut your contract you usually don't get another one until the date runs out on the contract you cut, depends on the reason why?

 

[PO2FinClk]

They serve in the same theatres and face the same risks

They do get the same pay as they are on Class C.

Didn't someone already say that RegF gets 15% extra because they don't have a choice of postings?

More then just Postings an enunciated in other posts, not having the choice of where or when in all other tasks also accounts for it. This has been stated a few times already in this thread.

Someone said that, but I believe they were stating their opinion vice CF or Government policy.  In fact I have yet to see the official policy statement on the pay difference, and would be curious to do so.

It is not a matter of opinion but of Unlimited Liability, this was also covered in an earlier thread. Further, a review was conducted by Special Commission on the Restructuring of the Reserves (SCRR) which raised the parity to 85% acknowledging the issue of unlimited liability of the Reg F justifying the 15% differential.

http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/prb9911-e.htm#5.%20Paytxt

The Special Commission’s report reaffirmed the Department’s position that pay for reservists should continue to be slightly less than Regular Force pay (about 85%). The rationale for this discrepancy is that Regular Force personnel must be available to be deployed at any time to operations within and outside Canada. However, despite the 85% rule, the Commission also noted several inequities in reserve pay scales, which varied not only according to rank and pay categories, but also according to the number of hours on duty. For example, reserve corporals received 67.7% of the Regular Force pay rate, whereas entry-level reserve privates received more than their Regular Force counterparts. In light of this disparity, the Special Commission recommended that the Department ensure that the 85% guideline be treated as a minimum for the pay rate for each rank.

In 1997, the Department established a multi-phased Revised Pay System for the Reserves (RPSR), reaffirming its commitment to bring pay for all reserve ranks into line with the 85% rule. Further wage-comparability adjustments formerly restricted to Regular Force members now apply to reservists: pilots, medical and dental officers and lawyers get extra pay, and holiday and specialist pay are being introduced for all members of the reserves. The RPSR first became operational in the Land Force Atlantic Area and was expected to be in place throughout the country by the end of 1997.

 

[2 Cdo]

As a retired member currently working as a B Class reservist I'm able to see both sides of the coin. Yes, some positions involve the same work, same schedule etc for what amounts to 15% less pay. But as others have alluded to, we reservists have much more say over our career than our reg force counterparts. I don't have to put up with postings anymore, I can actually put roots down in a community.

The other thing I will bring up is level of training. Through no fault of the reserves much of their training is not on par with their regular force counterparts, thus the loss of rank for many who CT from reserve to reg to reflect the difference in level of training. This obviously does not include our reservists who deploy overseas as they do the same work up training as their regular force counterpart prior to deployment.

In the end reservists should be careful what they wish for, they just might get it.

 

[Teeps74]

- But those positions should not be sacred.  He may have a three year contract, buy if I need that posting for one of my people, the Career Manager should be able to de-list it as a Reserve vacancy and post in a Regular - before three years.

At which point in time, I assume that YOU will pay my mortgage? If there was a danger of that, there is no way I would have taken my currant contract. I could guess, I would not be alone.

 

[milley]

Do the reserves just recieve only 85% less pay if they are not deployed overseas?
If they volunteer to be sent over, do they then recieve the same ammount of pay as a regular force member?

 

[WLSC]

Unless I'm mistaking, if a reg f personnal his posted for 3 years in CFLRS, his chance of beiing deployed are neer too nil.  If a res f personnal his in the same shcool for 3 years, I dont see why, the pay should not be the same.  Unlees I'm mistaking when a res F sign his 3 year contract, it's says he can be deployed, like a reg f pers.  Whit the same neer to nil chances.  When you have Mcpl that have the same pay then a WO, it's a bizar feeling.  For a field unit, if a res f perosnnal his there, most of the time, it's for deployement.  They will be class C.

 

[aesop081]

Unless I'm mistaking, if a reg f personnal his posted for 3 years in CFLRS, his chance of beiing deployed are neer too nil.  If a res f personnal his in the same shcool for 3 years, I dont see why, the pay should not be the same.

Because that RegF guy can walk in to work on any given day and be told that he is now posted to Yellowknife ( for example). If he doesnt like that idea, or if his wife will kill him, thats just too f'ing bad....off he goes. A ResF member in the exact same unit, in the exact same job, does not have such worries. Thats one example of how conditions of service are different. Thus, IMHO, justifying the pay difference. Theres more to a military job than just the current job description.

 

[sjm]

Agreed, but odds are the position in Yellowknife will in fact be filled by a reservist looking for greener (or whiter) patures.

The miracle of the CFTPO...

 

[WLSC]

Ok, but you know and I know regF pers who arrange, for family or other reasons not to be posted or not to be depoyed. 

 

[Teeps74]

The conditions under which a reservist serves ( A&B class) are nowhere near the same.

Funny, long term CL B. I was told I was going to Afghanistan on a TAV last Jan, touched down in March (it took that long for the dorks in Ottawa to get my contract straighened out, and my pay was still screwed well into April).

I pull the same hours (actually much longer, because I work in the same town as my home unit). I am subject to the exact same short term short notice taskings as my peers. I am expected to remain green throughout. I could find myself in Wainright next week, as easily as I can find myself at my desk... How is my job any different?

 

[PO2FinClk]

Do the reserves just recieve only 85% less pay if they are not deployed overseas?
If they volunteer to be sent over, do they then recieve the same ammount of pay as a regular force member?

Do a search this subject, covered many times and also mentioned by myself in my earlier post. Reservists who deploy are on Class C thus receiving the same pay as Reg Force members.

 

[Teeps74]

Ok, but you know and I know regF pers who arrange, for family or other reasons not to be posted or not to be depoyed. 

 

[kratz]

With the pay rate increased from 64% of RegF pay in 1999, last year's pension addition to benefits and the enforcement of DAOD 5023, it is not suprising that PRes members are looking for that additional 15%. On one hand they now have to pay into the pension, but that benefit has now reduced their take home pay. They are now expected to have the same medical and fitness standards, but are held to a low expectation of performance?



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