Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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My friend did a lot of prototyping in 3D to develop a product, faster than a machine shop and cheaper generally.
Water purification in emergencies.
- Thread starter Jock Campbell
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I had considered that Colin, however I'd like to be able to mold several prototypes from the same mold, because I'll be testing each one to destruction! I reckon it'll work out cheaper to get one mold made rather than get just one prototype printed. But I appreciate the suggestion. :subbies:
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Just a quick update to clarify things re the Katadyn filters mentioned earlier...
Not all Katadyn filter systems will desalinate seawater, in fact, very few will and some are available by special order only. The cheaper off-the shelf filter systems do not desalinate.
The desalination Katadyn cost upwards of $1200 and weighs in at over a kilo. Occasionally a refurbished system will be available at around $700.
A far cry from the $30-$50 price tag of my device.
Thanks for your attention.
Best regards,
Jock Campbell
Not all Katadyn filter systems will desalinate seawater, in fact, very few will and some are available by special order only. The cheaper off-the shelf filter systems do not desalinate.
The desalination Katadyn cost upwards of $1200 and weighs in at over a kilo. Occasionally a refurbished system will be available at around $700.
A far cry from the $30-$50 price tag of my device.
Thanks for your attention.
Best regards,
Jock Campbell
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It looks excellent, Scott. but it is bulky, and I'd imagine it'll cost a hell of a lot more than the $40 USD my own design would cost (max).
This is the point of my design, to get subsistence water purification as compact and low-cost as possible to make the product feasible for military distribution.
This is the point of my design, to get subsistence water purification as compact and low-cost as possible to make the product feasible for military distribution.
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Bulky? How so? It appears to be a roll up solar mat, a USB cable, a Nalgene bottle, and some sort of implement between bottle and open air. Unless it's made of lead I can't see the weight being an issue based simply on what I am seeing in the video.
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Compare that to a device that is the same packed shape/size/weight as an A4 padded envelope.
AND that can perform a secondary function of being a over-fire cooking pot.
AND that can perform a secondary function of being a over-fire cooking pot.
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OK.
The device the size/shape of that A4 envelope would get lost/stolen/broken/destroyed in my lifeboats, or any lifeboat I have ever been in, for that matter.
The device the size/shape of that A4 envelope would get lost/stolen/broken/destroyed in my pack/canoe/yak/bike/car.
I appreciate what you're saying about your target market, and that's fine, but you asked for feedback so I'll be happy to give it. When I read back through your concept, I see someone wearing a Trojan on their head. When I view Fontus I can't help feeling sold on the concept, for a few reasons (some of which could be disproved yet):
-a bottle for the water to simply drop into, like existing filter element type pump devices. If it mates with Nalgene then that's an increased selling point.
-the "passive" style: you bike or hike or paddle and it does it's thing.
-that USB cable has me thinking this puppy could work in concert with a BioLite, if someone was so inclined.
-it'll work in any maritime environment.
-it's ideal for survival at sea in the application I am used to.
-they are "near market", which is, perhaps, the most important.
-it isn't just for survival.
I mean no offense and hope none is taken. Perhaps none of the above means a lick to you. Great. I wish you continued good luck. I just speak as someone who knows lifeboats in my particular application, and knows what he wants as a casual adventurer. I also know that's a broad demographic.
Cheers
The device the size/shape of that A4 envelope would get lost/stolen/broken/destroyed in my lifeboats, or any lifeboat I have ever been in, for that matter.
The device the size/shape of that A4 envelope would get lost/stolen/broken/destroyed in my pack/canoe/yak/bike/car.
I appreciate what you're saying about your target market, and that's fine, but you asked for feedback so I'll be happy to give it. When I read back through your concept, I see someone wearing a Trojan on their head. When I view Fontus I can't help feeling sold on the concept, for a few reasons (some of which could be disproved yet):
-a bottle for the water to simply drop into, like existing filter element type pump devices. If it mates with Nalgene then that's an increased selling point.
-the "passive" style: you bike or hike or paddle and it does it's thing.
-that USB cable has me thinking this puppy could work in concert with a BioLite, if someone was so inclined.
-it'll work in any maritime environment.
-it's ideal for survival at sea in the application I am used to.
-they are "near market", which is, perhaps, the most important.
-it isn't just for survival.
I mean no offense and hope none is taken. Perhaps none of the above means a lick to you. Great. I wish you continued good luck. I just speak as someone who knows lifeboats in my particular application, and knows what he wants as a casual adventurer. I also know that's a broad demographic.
Cheers
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One; the device is made from platinum silicone rubber, so cannot be "destroyed" unless it is left to be kicked around the floor of the boat, which is no different from any other device you'd purchase: Abuse it and it will not perform; Leave it in an insecure place and it will not be there when you need it.
That's simple logic in all emergency situations! Take care of your gear!
The device I have designed may be carried in a pocket/personal pack or in a box of thirty of them packed in a lifeboat locker.
Actually, you haven't given feedback on my device, you've merely promoted another device. Which I don't mind, just be aware of the difference between it and my own, differences that I have clarified... incidentally, without attacking yours!
Fontus looks great for a range of applications, but would you carry it for twenty years on the off-chance of requiring it maybe once? This is where the bulk matters. Different devices fill different situational requirements, few fill every requirement and provide functionality over and above the primary use.
Most travellers carry a drinking vessel (cup/bottle).
Passivity is good absolutely, though again, by comparison to my own device, it is a bulky (likely pricey) kit.
No doubt it is a great device (I haven't knocked it). It meets a perceived need well.
My device IS designed purely for emergency use:- Pack it and forget it until you need it.
The question is... will the military buy them en masse and supply to squaddies?
That's simple logic in all emergency situations! Take care of your gear!
The device I have designed may be carried in a pocket/personal pack or in a box of thirty of them packed in a lifeboat locker.
Actually, you haven't given feedback on my device, you've merely promoted another device. Which I don't mind, just be aware of the difference between it and my own, differences that I have clarified... incidentally, without attacking yours!
Fontus looks great for a range of applications, but would you carry it for twenty years on the off-chance of requiring it maybe once? This is where the bulk matters. Different devices fill different situational requirements, few fill every requirement and provide functionality over and above the primary use.
Most travellers carry a drinking vessel (cup/bottle).
Passivity is good absolutely, though again, by comparison to my own device, it is a bulky (likely pricey) kit.
No doubt it is a great device (I haven't knocked it). It meets a perceived need well.
My device IS designed purely for emergency use:- Pack it and forget it until you need it.
The question is... will the military buy them en masse and supply to squaddies?
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Veteran
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Jock Campbell said:
My opinion . . . so highly unlikely as to be a "no".
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Jock Campbell said:
Jock Campbell said:
Jock, I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you, nor do I wish to attack, or be seen as attacking, your product or work. I am also not promoting anything, I am answering the initial call: I saw Fontus pop up on my Facebook feed and followed the link inspired by the former discussions here. I liked what I saw and felt it pertinent to share as this is a further point to discussion earlier and statements I had made about my current setup - and in the spirit of your original post. I told you what I use, what I have used, and what looks pretty slick to me. That's the best I can offer.
Given the chance at procurement stages, I would have the bean counters look at this. I'd also drop it in the lap of the guys who model our survival, some of who who have had to do it for real. That doesn't mean I wouldn't look at other devices, but I need a device to look at, get my point? Currently I have bagged water and would likely be held to such under SOLAS, but if I am allowed to indicate what makes sense as an add on, then there you go.
Fair enough.
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I'm not seeking a pissing match, I'm merely pointing out the notable differences between the two concepts in the context in which I set the topic. The thread is also months old and your coming into at at a very late stage promoting a device that by your own admission is unlikely to be adopted by the military. And that really is my point, Scott... and the very reason I posted this topic on a military forum website.
A simple device, that is very compact, very lightweight, virtually indestructible, and has a secondary function to boot, is far more likely to win military contract for widescale distribution to personnel.
If you don't like that, it's not my problem.
A simple device, that is very compact, very lightweight, virtually indestructible, and has a secondary function to boot, is far more likely to win military contract for widescale distribution to personnel.
If you don't like that, it's not my problem.
MJP
Army.ca Fixture
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Jock Campbell said:
The military has to have a requirement before it will create an invitation to tender. In that tender there are many ways to judge who wins the contract but generally it boils down to the most most cost effective, technically compliant product to meet that tender. I am not saying the requirement doesn't exist but we generally need to ID what the actual need is first before we attempt to buy anything. You might have a great product, that doesn't meet our needs right now.
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Jock, I once was the course 2I/c for a group of high school co-op students and one of my duties was to ensure they were fed.
At the time, there was a singular contractor for the entirety of 31 Brigade, and the food they served was disgusting, cold and often delivered late. I had some help finding a loophole in the contract and engaged a local caterer for the period in question, who served some very tasty food. At the end of the course, I asked (practically pleaded) the caterer to consider looking into the brigade contract. Her answer was an unqualified "NO".
She explained the hoops of fire she would have to jump through simply to qualify to bid, and the extra costs in personnel, paperwork and other regulatory compliance simply added deadweight and expense for the "possibility" that she might win a contract.
In a slightly different matter, a person I know was at a "town hall" with the new Minister of Defense, and one question was why it was so difficult to get boots and other simple things into the supply system. The Minister replied there were over 300 separate steps involved with procurement, and not all of them were with DND.
So unless General Dynamics buys the system from you and markets it to the Government (for a vastly inflated price, no doubt), you are really barking up the wrong tree.
My suggestion to you is to seriously develop and market this as a camping/survival aid and use channels like "CP Gear" and Mountain Equipent Co Op sell them. IF it is as good as you say, soldiers will come out and buy them for their own use, much like they purchase jet stoves, "puffies" and other Gucci kit that is proven to be cost effective and workable.
Best of luck, and let us know when they are going on sale (buy some advertising space on this site as well!)
At the time, there was a singular contractor for the entirety of 31 Brigade, and the food they served was disgusting, cold and often delivered late. I had some help finding a loophole in the contract and engaged a local caterer for the period in question, who served some very tasty food. At the end of the course, I asked (practically pleaded) the caterer to consider looking into the brigade contract. Her answer was an unqualified "NO".
She explained the hoops of fire she would have to jump through simply to qualify to bid, and the extra costs in personnel, paperwork and other regulatory compliance simply added deadweight and expense for the "possibility" that she might win a contract.
In a slightly different matter, a person I know was at a "town hall" with the new Minister of Defense, and one question was why it was so difficult to get boots and other simple things into the supply system. The Minister replied there were over 300 separate steps involved with procurement, and not all of them were with DND.
So unless General Dynamics buys the system from you and markets it to the Government (for a vastly inflated price, no doubt), you are really barking up the wrong tree.
My suggestion to you is to seriously develop and market this as a camping/survival aid and use channels like "CP Gear" and Mountain Equipent Co Op sell them. IF it is as good as you say, soldiers will come out and buy them for their own use, much like they purchase jet stoves, "puffies" and other Gucci kit that is proven to be cost effective and workable.
Best of luck, and let us know when they are going on sale (buy some advertising space on this site as well!)
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Jock Campbell said:
Nice ninja edit. Your original was barely a line long and contained nothing of the above.
I didn't know I was forbidden to add further info to the thread which I thought relevant, at the very least to me (and I am sure there are others who would find it pretty neat)
I am not promoting anything, this is the second time I am stating this, and the last. I don't "like" anything more or less, and I have explained why.
I reviewed my posts in this thread and see nothing that would indicate I was doing anything but answer your original call, as I interpreted it. I'm sorry this offends you, I can't be any more clear with my intent.
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Jock,
Threads don't belong to individuals. They are property of the site. ALL members are entitled to an opinion. If a person disagrees with that opinion, it's up to them to rebutt, with fact and grace. People are allowed to inject whatever they feel (other products) is relevant.
Please consider these facts next time you decide to answer a post.
---Staff---
Threads don't belong to individuals. They are property of the site. ALL members are entitled to an opinion. If a person disagrees with that opinion, it's up to them to rebutt, with fact and grace. People are allowed to inject whatever they feel (other products) is relevant.
Please consider these facts next time you decide to answer a post.
---Staff---
