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CF_MacAulay
Guest
Americas Army and Full SPectrum Warrior, have alot of things that are real, well both are made by the U.S. Army...
p.s. if this was mentioned, kick me...
p.s. if this was mentioned, kick me...
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the only problem i found with full Spectrum Warrior was that it was difficult to break down to teams and individual acrs of fire, and the lack of direct fire marksmanship of the section. (they were HORRIBLE shots)CF_MacAulay said:
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The bad thing about Full Spectrum Warrior is that once someone is behind cover they are paractically invinciple, even if they are not actually behind the object covering them.
Tell your guys to do the point fire. You will see some of your guys standing out from cover with the shield still above them.
Tell your guys to do the point fire. You will see some of your guys standing out from cover with the shield still above them.
G
GSF523
Guest
I play soldier of Fortune on the multi player and I use some tatics on it and boy do i ever clean house. lol I seem to get banned off some servers because no one can get ahead lol. Love playing the sniper. I like the cat and mouse theory lol It is a good game if anyone likes that type.
Jen
Jen
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Of course the things that are PROVEN to make good troops are:
Fitness
Basic soldier skills
- map and compass
- marksmanship
- basic fieldcraft
Attention to detail
Proper and innovative response to orders.
As soon as we come up with a game which combines all of the above, give 'er.
Until then, they are just time thieves.
Fitness
Basic soldier skills
- map and compass
- marksmanship
- basic fieldcraft
Attention to detail
Proper and innovative response to orders.
As soon as we come up with a game which combines all of the above, give 'er.
Until then, they are just time thieves.
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These days, units are not getting enough money and bullets to go out and train as often as they would want in the field.. I agree, GO!!, the points you mentionned are proven to be the basis for a good soldier, but using the gaming systems is more than a time-filler. Doing locker security is a time filler. You mentionned "attention to detail" and response to orders" both of these can be practiced (in certain ways) when properly using the games.. Tactics, and communication too..
Wait for SAS (Situational Awareness System) to get implemented to all the units.. its like a bunch of high tech computer screens that show you where everybody (on your net) is.. now imagine, you as a commander, being able to move these forces around the battle field..
sound familiar..
as I mentionned before.. nothing beats going out to the field or range and doing what soldiers do best.. but when we can't do out, we might as well use the tools available to train in other ways..
Wait for SAS (Situational Awareness System) to get implemented to all the units.. its like a bunch of high tech computer screens that show you where everybody (on your net) is.. now imagine, you as a commander, being able to move these forces around the battle field..
sound familiar..
as I mentionned before.. nothing beats going out to the field or range and doing what soldiers do best.. but when we can't do out, we might as well use the tools available to train in other ways..
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I agree with GO, the only way to be a soldier, is to train as a soldier. Not some internet yahoo with broadband bullets.
Cheers
Cheers
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Chags-
Not one of my basic soldier skills costs a dime.
There's a gym accross the hall and chin up bars in the shacks.
Booking trg areas on your home base is free, requiring only some effort.
Sitting around getting your Ptes and Cpls to practice resections, orders formats, knots, magnetic declination, C6, .50, 60mm all in SF role, target indication,firing tables, radio procedure etc. also costs nothing and often benefits the instructor as much as the instructed.
Before you laugh, and write this off as some jarhead rant - do a 9 line medevac off the top of your head, and tie a retrievable bowline. Having ahard time? That's because they are perishable skills.
The basics are what make us so adaptable and able to be employed in diverse situations on little notice.
I asked a JTF dude (a CSM) what made his unit good at what it did. The response was "we do all the little things right"
As a closer, we all know people who are great garrison troops, who fall apart in the field after short periods of time. It's alot harder to plan a section/Pl flanking when you hav'ent slept in a few days, and you are lost, than when you are sitting in a heated classroom with a large double double and a controller in your hand.
Computers will NEVER rival field training on anything less than the strategic level.
Not one of my basic soldier skills costs a dime.
There's a gym accross the hall and chin up bars in the shacks.
Booking trg areas on your home base is free, requiring only some effort.
Sitting around getting your Ptes and Cpls to practice resections, orders formats, knots, magnetic declination, C6, .50, 60mm all in SF role, target indication,firing tables, radio procedure etc. also costs nothing and often benefits the instructor as much as the instructed.
Before you laugh, and write this off as some jarhead rant - do a 9 line medevac off the top of your head, and tie a retrievable bowline. Having ahard time? That's because they are perishable skills.
The basics are what make us so adaptable and able to be employed in diverse situations on little notice.
I asked a JTF dude (a CSM) what made his unit good at what it did. The response was "we do all the little things right"
As a closer, we all know people who are great garrison troops, who fall apart in the field after short periods of time. It's alot harder to plan a section/Pl flanking when you hav'ent slept in a few days, and you are lost, than when you are sitting in a heated classroom with a large double double and a controller in your hand.
Computers will NEVER rival field training on anything less than the strategic level.
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GO!! You made some really good points.. I couldnt agree with you more.. I'm not laughing and writing off your rant.
Except that:
1) Booking the training areas may be free, but bullets, meals, fuel, FOA is not. Units only have a limited budget.. You may say " we'll just walk into the trg area for a couple hours, practice Nav or section attacks and then come back".. unfortunately, not all units have a training area in their back yard.. Units from Edmonton deploy to Wainwright for weeks at a time, because too much time would be wasted driving back and forth (2+ hrs). The price adds up quickly.
2) There aren't always enough Snr Cpls or Mcpls to teach/review these basic lessons. There are so many taskings out there, or PERs to write, or whatever that result in troops sitting in their pl areas staring at each other, waiting for something to happen.
I'm not saying that this is the way to go.. I am a strong advocate for keeping the troops busy with practical activities (not just time killers)
No, "playing" on an X-box is not the same as doing it for real, but don't be so quick to say that it is a complete waste of time with absolutely no benefits..
Oh, and..
Med Evac
A- unit id
B- unit loc
C- pick up point
D- Destination
E1- # of cas
E2- Condition
E3- Special needs
E4- Time
E5- Priority
F- Tactical details
G-Comms details
I think this is about right.. but you are right, I havent tied any knots in a while..
Except that:
1) Booking the training areas may be free, but bullets, meals, fuel, FOA is not. Units only have a limited budget.. You may say " we'll just walk into the trg area for a couple hours, practice Nav or section attacks and then come back".. unfortunately, not all units have a training area in their back yard.. Units from Edmonton deploy to Wainwright for weeks at a time, because too much time would be wasted driving back and forth (2+ hrs). The price adds up quickly.
2) There aren't always enough Snr Cpls or Mcpls to teach/review these basic lessons. There are so many taskings out there, or PERs to write, or whatever that result in troops sitting in their pl areas staring at each other, waiting for something to happen.
I'm not saying that this is the way to go.. I am a strong advocate for keeping the troops busy with practical activities (not just time killers)
No, "playing" on an X-box is not the same as doing it for real, but don't be so quick to say that it is a complete waste of time with absolutely no benefits..
Oh, and..
Med Evac
A- unit id
B- unit loc
C- pick up point
D- Destination
E1- # of cas
E2- Condition
E3- Special needs
E4- Time
E5- Priority
F- Tactical details
G-Comms details
I think this is about right.. but you are right, I havent tied any knots in a while..
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I guess you could learn something for these games since a lot the tatices are taken from real life but
I don't think boot camp we be replaced by an arcade anytime soon. :skull:
I don't think boot camp we be replaced by an arcade anytime soon. :skull:
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Chags-
What I'm advocating is a strip and assemble of the .50 in the vehicle bay, and registering tgts on the wall with the c6 in the SF role- just the little things that keep you current.
As for going out in the trg area, yes, not all units have one in their backyard, but to demonstrate pacing, a heavy left foot and of course - fitness, not much more than a backyard is needed. Also - I'm advocating a 1300 - 1600 basic skills refresher - no - stores req!
In case you are wondering where this came from, friends of mine were recently tested on controlling C6 fire on their mod 6. The problem arose that the candidates had not fired c6 in some cases - 2-6 YEARS, and required a refresher after hours in the shacks. This is obviously a less than ideal situation for guys about to become MCpls! It is not the candidates faults, but their coys for not pushing this type of low level trg instead of - as you so aptly put it - doing locker security.
Skills like slipping the scales on a C2 site and indirect fire are already almost gone - a program that could teach/refresh those skills would be beneficial.
AAAAAAND, a room full of XBOXs would be good for small unit cohesion and morale - theres a good pt.
Nice job on the 9 line!!
What I'm advocating is a strip and assemble of the .50 in the vehicle bay, and registering tgts on the wall with the c6 in the SF role- just the little things that keep you current.
As for going out in the trg area, yes, not all units have one in their backyard, but to demonstrate pacing, a heavy left foot and of course - fitness, not much more than a backyard is needed. Also - I'm advocating a 1300 - 1600 basic skills refresher - no - stores req!
In case you are wondering where this came from, friends of mine were recently tested on controlling C6 fire on their mod 6. The problem arose that the candidates had not fired c6 in some cases - 2-6 YEARS, and required a refresher after hours in the shacks. This is obviously a less than ideal situation for guys about to become MCpls! It is not the candidates faults, but their coys for not pushing this type of low level trg instead of - as you so aptly put it - doing locker security.
Skills like slipping the scales on a C2 site and indirect fire are already almost gone - a program that could teach/refresh those skills would be beneficial.
AAAAAAND, a room full of XBOXs would be good for small unit cohesion and morale - theres a good pt.
Nice job on the 9 line!!
H
Heathan
Guest
I dont know about other units but at 2VP this type of trainging goes on, mine awarness, first aid, NBCW, weapons tests, AFV, Knots, etc. And all within our bays, and yes we have a training area in our backyard.
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I might as well add a few points in here. I'm applying to the reserves, I don't play many video games except with my friends. But the one thing that pisses me off alot, is when people say they would make good soldiers because they play Full Spectrum Warrior, or Rainbow Six Raven Shield. Some people even claim that they'd be some of the best snipers ever because of playing Halo 2 and other video games so much. While video games may help at times with training, they won't mean that those who play will be better soldiers because of it. Even one guy said that he'd be an excellent commander because of how much he played video games. I think that if you were to put these people in a battlefield situation they would piss or shit their pants. I'd like to see how the skills from playing video games would play off in that situation.
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So do these games actually have any merit or is it just a time filler when no trig time is availible? Both maybe, games like FSW and to a lesser extent Rainbow six can help seasoned soldiers hone their skills without having to go in to actual training. but it should never (hopefully never will be) replacing actual training with the real deal.
UBIQUE!!!!
UBIQUE!!!!
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Reminds me of Starcraft. They recruit civilians (kidnap them) and put them into a re-education machine and 30 seconds later you have a fully trained soldier. Then you fuck the bad guys shit up with your near instant space marines, pardon the language.
Fun and games aside, I think you need to take into consideration the mentality of these guys making the assumptions that being good at video games will make them good soldiers.
There are "video" games that soldiers use. IIRC officers train with a sort of stratigic simulator. Deploying troops, reacting to enemies, placing things, doing the stuff officers do.
We use a machine that lets us train with out weapons indoors. Like a big game of duck hunt.
These things help train soldiers. I'm not sure if you can call these computer programs "video games" or not. The point behind them is to train not have fun.
The multitude of games that people mention are not ment to teach. They are for fun. Sure you might learn that when you 'position your sniper deeper inside a building, the enemy soldiers(gamers) won't see you as easily. That works but trust me, shit like that goes right out the window when it's happening for real. By real i mean training in real life.
Playing games it may don on you that when you run out of ammo, you need to change your magazines. Well you need to do it in real life to get used to it and understand it. Muscle memory they call it.
An example I could give would be martial arts. You can read and read and read about the stuff and play video games until your thumbs are blue, you can kick everyones ass at street fighter. Until you step on a map and face off against someone in real life you haven't learned a thing.
Fun and games aside, I think you need to take into consideration the mentality of these guys making the assumptions that being good at video games will make them good soldiers.
There are "video" games that soldiers use. IIRC officers train with a sort of stratigic simulator. Deploying troops, reacting to enemies, placing things, doing the stuff officers do.
We use a machine that lets us train with out weapons indoors. Like a big game of duck hunt.
These things help train soldiers. I'm not sure if you can call these computer programs "video games" or not. The point behind them is to train not have fun.
The multitude of games that people mention are not ment to teach. They are for fun. Sure you might learn that when you 'position your sniper deeper inside a building, the enemy soldiers(gamers) won't see you as easily. That works but trust me, shit like that goes right out the window when it's happening for real. By real i mean training in real life.
Playing games it may don on you that when you run out of ammo, you need to change your magazines. Well you need to do it in real life to get used to it and understand it. Muscle memory they call it.
An example I could give would be martial arts. You can read and read and read about the stuff and play video games until your thumbs are blue, you can kick everyones ass at street fighter. Until you step on a map and face off against someone in real life you haven't learned a thing.
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I downloaded Canadian Forces skins for my version of Ghost Recon and it the only reason I play it all sometimes. The rifle has changed, esthetically, to a C7A1 and the machine-gun is a C9.
I haven't played it in a while to really have any valid opinion except I really didn't mind the game. I have a new graphic card so maybe I should try it out again.
Cheers.
I haven't played it in a while to really have any valid opinion except I really didn't mind the game. I have a new graphic card so maybe I should try it out again.
Cheers.
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I just have to laugh at this thread.
Playing games will not make you a great soldier, playing soldier for real, and applying what you learn : Maybe
The ONLY real benefit to a soldier playing video games, is it might increase your hand eye coordination, and spatial acuity.
Even the most advanced games, and the AI in them do not respond as a real flesh and blood human will. While the current crop of PC games may have nice eye candy, and far better AI capabilities, hardware and game coding just can't match what real training will accomplish.
Playing games will not make you a great soldier, playing soldier for real, and applying what you learn : Maybe
The ONLY real benefit to a soldier playing video games, is it might increase your hand eye coordination, and spatial acuity.
Even the most advanced games, and the AI in them do not respond as a real flesh and blood human will. While the current crop of PC games may have nice eye candy, and far better AI capabilities, hardware and game coding just can't match what real training will accomplish.
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