A bit of commentary I posted on a Facebook group on the subject...
"The comments quoted in the article seem to assert that the Canadian Forces use depleted uranium. We do not. Our munitions designed to penetrate heavy armour use hardened tungsten alloy, with no radiological hazard whatsoever.
It behooves the members of the student governemnt to check their facts. It's hideously ironic that one of their motivations for banning CF recruiting is that the average student is, and I quote, “A lot of students don’t know about the issues and don’t know about the facts,”.
If they want to take it upon themselves to make this decision for students, they ought to have the basic academic honesty to make sure that their 'knowledge' is at least factual. Especially when they're going to condescend to accuse the general student population of ignorance. I wouldn't tolerate this at my school, nor should UVic students tolerate it at theirs."
"The comments quoted in the article seem to assert that the Canadian Forces use depleted uranium. We do not. Our munitions designed to penetrate heavy armour use hardened tungsten alloy, with no radiological hazard whatsoever.
It behooves the members of the student governemnt to check their facts. It's hideously ironic that one of their motivations for banning CF recruiting is that the average student is, and I quote, “A lot of students don’t know about the issues and don’t know about the facts,”.
If they want to take it upon themselves to make this decision for students, they ought to have the basic academic honesty to make sure that their 'knowledge' is at least factual. Especially when they're going to condescend to accuse the general student population of ignorance. I wouldn't tolerate this at my school, nor should UVic students tolerate it at theirs."
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 160
As a UVic student and a member of the CF it's shameful, I didn't get a chance to speak my peace during the debate unfortunately (or fortunately?). We've got national coverage now, and it's looking pretty bad..
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070925/BCMASON25/Headlines/headdex/headdexEducation/3/3/5/
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070925/BCMASON25/Headlines/headdex/headdexEducation/3/3/5/
FSTO
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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Listened to the Student union chair this morning on the local CBC station. She was backpeddling furiously on the subject of why they made the decision. She went on and on about democracy and different voices and open debate. What she should have said was; "We made a bad decision and will take this matter to the students and let them decide"
This whole issue has made U Vic look like total buffoons.
This whole issue has made U Vic look like total buffoons.
0
00334
Guest
UPDATE: There is an enderly gentleman walking around campus with signs with pro-troop and anti-UVSS slogans. I never thought that this would be so big.
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I saw a bit about this story on the news, I apologize if it's already been posted.
The usual reproduced under the fair dealings disclaimer...
http://www.canada.com/ch/cheknews/news/story.html?id=8acff5b4-f8a8-4139-9bf3-d147d59fabc2&k=82382
Lousie Dickson
Times Colonist
Monday, September 24, 2007
Detail from a Canadian Forces recruiting poster. UVic's student society has banned military recruiters from its building.
University of Victoria students are protesting a decision by their student society to ban active Canadian Forces recruiting at a career fair in their building.
The outcry, which includes a 350-member protest group on Facebook, has forced the UVic Student Society to let students have the final say on the issue. A motion will be brought forward at the student body's annual general meeting Oct. 18 and the decision will be binding. The fair is Jan. 30.
"There's such strong feeling about it on both sides," said Tracy Ho, chair of the UVSS board of directors. "That's why we're bringing it to the students."
At the Sept. 10 board meeting, Ho cast the deciding vote in favour of the ban, breaking a 6-6 deadlock. Some students are concerned about the recruiting practices of the military, she explained. They believe the military does not give students information about the psychological, mental and physical effects soldiers face when they return from service. Others don't want the military in the Student Union Building, where the fair will be held.
"The Student Union Building is truly the only space on campus that is for students and run by students," said Ho. "They feel strongly about not having the military in their space actively recruiting them in their own space.
"This issue touches home for a lot of students. A lot of people feel very passionately about the issue. I'm very happy it has sparked this debate. This is what university is all about."
Many students are unhappy by what they perceive as a lack of debate. Pamphlets and posters handed out on campus Monday argue UVSS has no right to tell students whether they should join or not join the Canadian Armed Forces. Students were also set to protest a board meeting Monday night. A petition is being circulated to impeach student directors who voted to ban the military from the career fair.
"I feel somewhat insulted that some members of the board think I'm incapable of making a decision on my own," said Jordan Dilba, a fourth-year economics student. "I think regardless of how people feel about the war, students are in favour of people making their own decisions."
Fourth-year history student John Fox said he was extremely upset by UVSS's actions.
"The Canadian Forces provides funding for many UVic students," said Fox. "There are people I know who wouldn't be able to go to university without the funding they get. One of the primary missions of UVSS is to lower tuition fees and here we have a group that's helping students and they want to kick them out.
"The UVSS has essentially declared the Armed Forces are criminals. Their reasoning is incredibly flawed. It's completely preposterous they're making these claims."
"You should be exposed to all information," said Max Bakken, a fourth-year philosophy student. "We are students. We are here because we are intellectual. We can make that decision."
Shannon Lucy, a third-year anthropology student, supports the UVSS decision.
"I'm not for censorship," said Lucy. "But since the Canadian Armed Forces is doing illegal things, they don't really have any business on a public site. We can't be endorsing them."
In Vancouver, Lt.-Navy Rand Freeman of Canadian Forces Recruiting was reluctant to comment on the dispute.
"The Canadian Forces is very mission-oriented and so is Canadian Forces Recruiting, he said. "Our mission is to attract people. We will continue with our mission."
Jennifer Margison, manager of UVic Career Services, said the student society is within its right to determine what kind of events take place in its building - and she respects that.
"We will just make some alternate arrangement for the military to speak to students who wish to speak to them. That's not really going to a problem," she said.
The usual reproduced under the fair dealings disclaimer...
http://www.canada.com/ch/cheknews/news/story.html?id=8acff5b4-f8a8-4139-9bf3-d147d59fabc2&k=82382
Lousie Dickson
Times Colonist
Monday, September 24, 2007
Detail from a Canadian Forces recruiting poster. UVic's student society has banned military recruiters from its building.
University of Victoria students are protesting a decision by their student society to ban active Canadian Forces recruiting at a career fair in their building.
The outcry, which includes a 350-member protest group on Facebook, has forced the UVic Student Society to let students have the final say on the issue. A motion will be brought forward at the student body's annual general meeting Oct. 18 and the decision will be binding. The fair is Jan. 30.
"There's such strong feeling about it on both sides," said Tracy Ho, chair of the UVSS board of directors. "That's why we're bringing it to the students."
At the Sept. 10 board meeting, Ho cast the deciding vote in favour of the ban, breaking a 6-6 deadlock. Some students are concerned about the recruiting practices of the military, she explained. They believe the military does not give students information about the psychological, mental and physical effects soldiers face when they return from service. Others don't want the military in the Student Union Building, where the fair will be held.
"The Student Union Building is truly the only space on campus that is for students and run by students," said Ho. "They feel strongly about not having the military in their space actively recruiting them in their own space.
"This issue touches home for a lot of students. A lot of people feel very passionately about the issue. I'm very happy it has sparked this debate. This is what university is all about."
Many students are unhappy by what they perceive as a lack of debate. Pamphlets and posters handed out on campus Monday argue UVSS has no right to tell students whether they should join or not join the Canadian Armed Forces. Students were also set to protest a board meeting Monday night. A petition is being circulated to impeach student directors who voted to ban the military from the career fair.
"I feel somewhat insulted that some members of the board think I'm incapable of making a decision on my own," said Jordan Dilba, a fourth-year economics student. "I think regardless of how people feel about the war, students are in favour of people making their own decisions."
Fourth-year history student John Fox said he was extremely upset by UVSS's actions.
"The Canadian Forces provides funding for many UVic students," said Fox. "There are people I know who wouldn't be able to go to university without the funding they get. One of the primary missions of UVSS is to lower tuition fees and here we have a group that's helping students and they want to kick them out.
"The UVSS has essentially declared the Armed Forces are criminals. Their reasoning is incredibly flawed. It's completely preposterous they're making these claims."
"You should be exposed to all information," said Max Bakken, a fourth-year philosophy student. "We are students. We are here because we are intellectual. We can make that decision."
Shannon Lucy, a third-year anthropology student, supports the UVSS decision.
"I'm not for censorship," said Lucy. "But since the Canadian Armed Forces is doing illegal things, they don't really have any business on a public site. We can't be endorsing them."
In Vancouver, Lt.-Navy Rand Freeman of Canadian Forces Recruiting was reluctant to comment on the dispute.
"The Canadian Forces is very mission-oriented and so is Canadian Forces Recruiting, he said. "Our mission is to attract people. We will continue with our mission."
Jennifer Margison, manager of UVic Career Services, said the student society is within its right to determine what kind of events take place in its building - and she respects that.
"We will just make some alternate arrangement for the military to speak to students who wish to speak to them. That's not really going to a problem," she said.
- Reaction score
- 5,522
- Points
- 1,360
Well we are doing illegal things, I promised her I wouldn't co..........
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That's the kind of thing that annoys me, un-informed people getting air-time (or paper time?) They make the CF look bad for something that is not true. People could be reading that, and not have a very thorough understanding of the mission and think, "we're doing illegal things? I didn't know that! Maybe the mission IS immoral."
Or maybe not. What do I know?
Or maybe not. What do I know?
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...me on over and tell her how wrong she is.
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CF Enthusiast said:That's the kind of thing that annoys me, un-informed people getting air-time (or paper time?) They make the CF look bad for something that is not true. People could be reading that, and not have a very thorough understanding of the mission and think, "we're doing illegal things? I didn't know that! Maybe the mission IS immoral."
Or maybe not. What do I know?
Where do you think those uninformed people learned this attitude and ignorance of facts from??
The very same media that now gives them coverage!! The media in this country is not interested in presenting the facts of the mission to Canadians (read Ruxted if you want that); they are interested in "educating" them only with stories that "bleed" and earn their pretty publications and shareholders the largest profit margin possible.
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Thanks Vern! Sorry about that, I guess I'm not as good at multi-tasking as I thought.
Modified to add: UVic is one of the schools my daughter will be looking at as she advances her education (from college to university) in two years. But I'm the one paying for that education, so I will have a very hard time funding a school who's student union would even consider this type of censorship. How dare the student union decide what the other students should or should not be exposed to vis-a-vis career choices!
Modified to add: UVic is one of the schools my daughter will be looking at as she advances her education (from college to university) in two years. But I'm the one paying for that education, so I will have a very hard time funding a school who's student union would even consider this type of censorship. How dare the student union decide what the other students should or should not be exposed to vis-a-vis career choices!
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Being Victorian here, I recognize the UVSS has the right to allow and deny who it allows into the Student Union Building as it wishes. UVSS policy is rarely the policy of UVic. I also think it needs to be said that the SUB recently lost their liquor license. Chances are it's worth googling and quite amusing.
Things always have a tendency to sort themselves out.
Things always have a tendency to sort themselves out.
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NavComm, why don't you let them know that your daughter won't attend the school with this ban in place. It would just put more pressure on the administration if they recieved many letters like that.
(I'm also aware the situation is currently resolving itself)
(I'm also aware the situation is currently resolving itself)
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The issue isn't resolving itself yet. Students Against War have made this into a platform for Afghanistan. One of the UVSS board members who voted for the ban said that this was a "symbolic" protest against the CF being in Afghanistan (at least they didn't call for the CF out of Iraq like last year). There are petitions going around right now, and I'm sure that the issue (allowing the CF to recruit during the annual career fair) will end up on the agenda for the annual general meeting, however if SAW keeps making this an Afghanistan issue (I see it as a freedom to choose issue) it may get more to their side. That the AGM is a month away is another problem, as these things tend to get forgotten, and the anger sweeping the student body now will be a lot more tempered by then I suspect.
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