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USAF has retention bonuses of $35k a year and they're still hemorrhaging pilots. You're never going to compete with all private sector salaries, get close and be happy with that.
US Navy Woes
- Thread starter FSTO
- Start date
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jollyjacktar said:
Given the choice, I'm guessing that pilots would rather get 10 additional flight hours than spend ten hours doing DLN training on WHMIS; controlled goods; security awareness; Flossing and You: The Dental Crisis; The Army's New Ranks: Who you're talking to with your hands in your pockets, and the plethora of other items that fill non-flying hours.
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dapaterson said:
Flossing and You will help prevent the scourge of GIIINNNGGGIIIIVVVIIIIITTTTIIIIIIISSSSSS!!!!!!!!!
But yes, 10 hours means a) 10 hours out of the office and DLN, and b) 10 more hours into their logbook for the airlines :nod:
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Dimsum said:
10 hours actually means 2-3 hrs in the logbook.
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My point is that 10 hours will never equal 10 hours in the logbook.
As far as money is concerned, it is not the solution; it is part of the solution. At least in the private sector you get compensated for your overtime.... I feel if the government was paying for military overtime, our time would be better utilized...
As far as money is concerned, it is not the solution; it is part of the solution. At least in the private sector you get compensated for your overtime.... I feel if the government was paying for military overtime, our time would be better utilized...
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All military pay includes an overtime factor.
That said, because COs never see Reg F pay, it's assumed away as a sunk cost, and people's time is treated as worthless. So you end up incentivizing saving $75 on TD flights that take six hours longer - because we assign zero value to the six hours of wasted time.
That said, because COs never see Reg F pay, it's assumed away as a sunk cost, and people's time is treated as worthless. So you end up incentivizing saving $75 on TD flights that take six hours longer - because we assign zero value to the six hours of wasted time.
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dapaterson said:
Does it account for 10-15 hrs of overtime every week? Because that's what most fighter pilots do.
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SupersonicMax said:
Come sail with an MH Det sometime, princess.
We will show you what "overtime" really means...
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SeaKingTacco said:
I like how you resort to naming to get your point across. Very mature. I can play who has the bigger penis too.... but I am better than that. I was responding to a claim that there is overtime taken into account in our pay. I was asking if that was meant the overtime I am used to. Not suggesting we have it harder than anybody... but I guess you do.
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SupersonicMax said:
My point is: you consistently trot out the line of just how hard fighter pilots have it.
Guess what: lots of people have it hard in the CF.
I am not suggesting, BTW, that MH folks need special treatment. It is, what it is...
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Alright both you fine folks, I think both your jobs are equally cool! Now be nice 8)
Here is a funny story about time wasting. 2011 MAPLE GUARDIAN/RESOLVE (can't remember if they changed the name yet or not). It's early November in Alberta so the temperature can fluctuate from anywhere to +10 during the day to -20 at night.
We are doing a Battalion air mobile insertion via helicopter to conduct a deliberate attack. The kicker is the helicopters we were using were American and they had to leave the next morning so what do they do? They insert us 20 hours before the attack so we can 'exercise' an insertion. Also, we are under weight restrictions to get everyone in so we had to leave all snivel kit back at P6.
Well wouldn't you know, it goes from +10 to about -15 that night :rofl: I had fallen asleep on the ground and woke up to prep my kit and I couldn't move my arms or legs and was shivering uncontrollably. None of us brought sleeping bags (the big army one doesn't really fit in the day bag when you've got a 522, ammo, water, etc). The boys and I stood around in a circle hugging each other for a couple of hours before we moved.
All of that so some Senior Officer could watch a Battalion insert via a helicopter. The whole scenario was completely illogical as we sat for 20 hours only a few km away from the objective.
My point, what's your time worth to the CAF? Exactly Zero ;D
Here is a funny story about time wasting. 2011 MAPLE GUARDIAN/RESOLVE (can't remember if they changed the name yet or not). It's early November in Alberta so the temperature can fluctuate from anywhere to +10 during the day to -20 at night.
We are doing a Battalion air mobile insertion via helicopter to conduct a deliberate attack. The kicker is the helicopters we were using were American and they had to leave the next morning so what do they do? They insert us 20 hours before the attack so we can 'exercise' an insertion. Also, we are under weight restrictions to get everyone in so we had to leave all snivel kit back at P6.
Well wouldn't you know, it goes from +10 to about -15 that night :rofl: I had fallen asleep on the ground and woke up to prep my kit and I couldn't move my arms or legs and was shivering uncontrollably. None of us brought sleeping bags (the big army one doesn't really fit in the day bag when you've got a 522, ammo, water, etc). The boys and I stood around in a circle hugging each other for a couple of hours before we moved.
All of that so some Senior Officer could watch a Battalion insert via a helicopter. The whole scenario was completely illogical as we sat for 20 hours only a few km away from the objective.
My point, what's your time worth to the CAF? Exactly Zero ;D
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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SeaKingTacco said:
We love having you guys on board. You guys can really curtail Sea Training with you're "work-rest ratio requirements".
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
Halifax Tar said:
Amen to that, brother. :nod:
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:nod:dapaterson said:
(Note: while it may be part of professional reading, airline time may not be the best opportunity for catching up on trends in aviation terrorism :facepalm: )
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SeaKingTacco said:
I relate to what I know. I am not going to give MH, LRP or transport examples simply because I am not part of the communities. But yes, keep calling me names..
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SupersonicMax said:
I apologize for hurting your feelings.
Nobody who is posted to an Op Sqn of any flavour should have any expectation of an 8-4, 40hr work week.
It just does not work that way.
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The issue at hand is what drives people - who require effort and money to recruit and train - out of the CF (and US Navy, etcetera).
"Expectations" or not, things eventually become dissatisfiers, and people with marketable skills will, in many cases, bail when dissatisfiers outweigh satisfiers. And who can blame them? Who should expect anything otherwise?
I enjoyed the two police helicopter trials that I flew in 1999 and 2000. Peel Region was the hardest work that I've ever done in a cockpit - mainly due to the operating environment (most of our patrol area was within Toronto International's control zone) - but very satisfying. I came in, checked weather, briefed, and flew three two-hour patrols in a ten-hour shift, was paid 1.7 times as much as my Class A pay, had no responsibilities outside of the cockpit, and no real irritants. It was a pretty good deal.
I can certainly understand others leaving for better things.
Many of those people would, however, elect to stay if their conditions were improved - which would likely be much cheaper than paying to train replacements (especially as newly-Winged Pilots will take many years of operational flying to become as effective and useful as the ones that we are losing.
What is wrong with somebody pointing that out, using his community as an example?
My first three flying tours - 427 Squadron, 444 Squadron Lahr, and 400 Squadron Downsview, were all very good postings (except the ignoranus "running" 444 Squadron during my last two years there). We flew one or two (and sometimes three) trips daily, left work at a reasonable time each day, and had comparatively little BS make-work/PC crap to do. Life was good in those days - but we were not as short of people then as we seem to be now, either, so unpaid overtime was not necessary.
"Expectations" or not, things eventually become dissatisfiers, and people with marketable skills will, in many cases, bail when dissatisfiers outweigh satisfiers. And who can blame them? Who should expect anything otherwise?
I enjoyed the two police helicopter trials that I flew in 1999 and 2000. Peel Region was the hardest work that I've ever done in a cockpit - mainly due to the operating environment (most of our patrol area was within Toronto International's control zone) - but very satisfying. I came in, checked weather, briefed, and flew three two-hour patrols in a ten-hour shift, was paid 1.7 times as much as my Class A pay, had no responsibilities outside of the cockpit, and no real irritants. It was a pretty good deal.
I can certainly understand others leaving for better things.
Many of those people would, however, elect to stay if their conditions were improved - which would likely be much cheaper than paying to train replacements (especially as newly-Winged Pilots will take many years of operational flying to become as effective and useful as the ones that we are losing.
What is wrong with somebody pointing that out, using his community as an example?
My first three flying tours - 427 Squadron, 444 Squadron Lahr, and 400 Squadron Downsview, were all very good postings (except the ignoranus "running" 444 Squadron during my last two years there). We flew one or two (and sometimes three) trips daily, left work at a reasonable time each day, and had comparatively little BS make-work/PC crap to do. Life was good in those days - but we were not as short of people then as we seem to be now, either, so unpaid overtime was not necessary.
