Updating RCMP ‘militaristic’ training is long overdue, experts say

[mariomike]

I hear from some trainers that verbally connecting remains a challenge for some younger members.

My first partner told me, "When they send us into people's homes, the job is 90% likeability.."

Fortunately, we were not responsible for enforcement, and could focus on customer service. I never envied the enforcement aspect of police work.

 

[BrianWL]

Any agency that plans to occasionally put members on parade - especially Remembrance Day - ought to ensure they can do drill well enough to not embarrass themselves (unless they take the opposite tack and just make a point of walking in lines and files).

Back when I joined, our use of force options were limited to a revolver and a leather sap. I don't recall even training on the sap and the annual revolver qualification consisted of standing target work. There was nothing tactical or practical to it at all.

Once our equipment and training started to expand and improve to include more scenario work and practical/tactical applications, I saw what I felt was a flaw. Every training situation, whether it was the old laser disc FATS, a live scenario or one-on-one spar, had to turn out with the particular use-of-force option being used. I get why they did that - the trainers needed to see if a particular hard skill was learned (time x number of class members) , but it cemented a lot of bad behavior in a lot of young members.

A lot of younger members now don't seem to come with natural inter-personal communication skills; certainly not to the same level someone who came from a previous line of work. It is an empowered job being exercised by an empowered generation. I understand the training is a lot more holistic now and if mere presence and/or communications are seen to be effective then the scenario is allowed to deescalate. I hear from some trainers that verbally connecting remains a challenge for some younger members.

"To jaw-jaw is better than to war-war"

the training scar I see is resolving a use of force situation in 30 seconds or less. Training time is short and in order to rep out pistol, CEW, spray, baton, cuffs and feet/fists - a lot of the scenarios presented do not encourage utilizing distance/time/talk. Although I have experienced training where the scenarios reinforced the latter three tactics........as far as verbal skills. ya some of the new kids would be better connecting their issued cell to the subjects personal and have a What's App chat. But - not all.....

 

[CBH99]

My first partner told me, "When they send us into people's homes, the job is 90% likeability.."

Fortunately, we were not responsible for enforcement, and could focus on customer service. I never envied the enforcement aspect of police work.

I think that could & potentially should be argued to be 90% of their job also, especially when inside someone's home

(Impossible to achieve, I'd reckon. But people are a lot more likely to comply & cooperate if they like you. They may not like the police, but if they like you...)


I agree, I don't envy the enforcement aspect of their job at times.

Sometimes they really do find themselves between undesirable choice #1 and undesirable choice #2

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Going into the wilds of the Yukon and Northern BC as a government regulator by myself, meant using good personal skills was very necessary to achieving the goal and not getting shot at or run off. Often asking people a technical question not related to my work, but based on what I observing at the site, could quickly take a potentially confrontational exchange into a civil one. In example seeing the guy using a Cat with the raised drive gear and immediately asking: "I am curious, does the raised drive gear reduce the amount of maintenance you have to do?" It forces them out of their expected verbal path, gets them talking about whatever they are likely passionate about and puts them into the teaching mode and then a civil conversation and often a offer of coffee follows. Getting people to see the human in front of them and not what they represent can often work well. Not always applicable to police work, but very much to regulatory work.

 

[quadrapiper]

It’s completely full of shit. If I changed the department names on most curriculums across Canada you wouldn’t really be able to identify the agencies with any real success. It all resembles each other now.

Length of various courses shift around. Some outliers in every program. But the topics and the how’s are basically the same.

I toured the country several years ago delivering training exclusively to fed and provincial agencies- some muni’s as well, nothing strange or stand out.

Quirks on some firearms stuff. That’s about it. And none of it that could substantially change the ability to work together.

Should the RCMP's training be identifiably different (not necessarily more "military," but different), given the remote and federal roles that either don't apply or don't apply to the same degree to other agencies?

 

[Booter]

Basic police officer training should be the same across the country- because we should have the same expectations of every cop.

If we split federal duties off some day- and those guys never touch a police car and screw up everyday police work- they should be trained differently, because they have a different mission.

Isolated and remote policing should have another course that is added on. Off the top of my head it would have advanced medical, navigation, alt vehicles, air ops, the containment course, Survival school…how to do basic vehicle maintenance…basic building maintenance…indigenous issues…SAR…wildland firefighting…lol

Presently I piece meal all this stuff to my folks but I think a good four week block could cover it off.

 

[CBH99]

I read the author's WL CV and, assuming it is self-written, doesn't use terms that are consistent with the OPP service. I see that part of his academic career had him in charge of the "Fire Science and Public Safety" program at a college. Maybe we will hear from him sometime when a major fire incident occurs and can tell us how the fire services are all wrong.

With the greatest of respect to anyone on here with a degree, particularly a graduate one, in policing or public safety, I can count on the fingers of one finger the ones that I have known, worked with or read articles from that have any credibility with me. Even with those who spent time 'in harness' I often wonder how much of that time was spent telling his superiors how wrong things are sharing his good ideas. It's hard to toss away decent pay and a pension, and clearly he didn't hate policing enough to leave.

Free or lateral thinking is fine, so long as it is bounded within an enforced (term used loosley) or articulated professional culture; in this case not just the police service but the criminal justice system as a whole. This is part of what Booter said so well. In a deployed service, first line supervision is probably thin on the ground, and detachment command is now closer to management than command, spending most of their time 'liaising' with communities and Rgion/Divison.

You might think you have a wonderful innovative way to cook a Big Mac, but if the corporation isn't on side, you'll probably end up on the street. In the public service, the reality is a unrestrained free thinker, unless they cross into the criminal realm, just become a career pains in the butt.

In the academic world, there is constant need to research or publish. I'm always wondering who seeks out whom when we see articles such as this.

The one difference between Depot and OPC is no one service 'owns' the facility, so there is little cultural enforcement of a particular service. Even back in my day, drill wasn't a huge component; mostly basic work and getting ready for graduation. I'm way too removed from anything to do with training but from what I see of the results, anything to do will drill (and deportment for that matter) has fallen well down the list.

Dress & Deportment is still high on the list with the services here that I'm familiar with (EPS & Sheriffs)

I don't cross paths with RCMP all too often, but when I do they've always seemed squared away.


Part of dress & deportment is fitness, and it's been interesting to see the culture change in EPS when it comes to fitness.

EPS used to be notorious for having pretty high fitness standards just to get your application looked at - and still host a program called Run With Recruits twice a week.

(Potential applicants & applicants attend the 1.5hr group fitness class, which is organized by the EPS recruiters - and those workouts are absolutely no joke!)

Now they are contemplating scrubbing the requirement to pass the fitness test prior to submitting your application altogether, instead opting that a fitness standard will be a requirement for graduating recruit training.

(They are hurting for applicants big time, at a time when they want to run up to 10 recruit classes a year for this year & next...so getting people into a recruit class who could be physically fit in a few months is the idea behind it.)


And drill?? With CFB Edmonton right next door to their new training facility in the NE, and a whole drill presentation performed during their graduation, you bet they still do drill.

Maybe less of a focus on it now, but they come out of recruit training being pretty sharp at basic drill.

(Their drill team looked REALLY sharp, imo, at the service for our 2 EPS constables a month ago or so - and that wasn't lost on the American officers who came up to attend. I heard some really interesting quiet chatter about it at the reception.)

 

[CBH99]

In the 80s they could make you stand in a garbage can because you’re “f*^%#ng garbage” for hours and instructors would fight cadets- bet on recruits in rings.

Today- an instructor gets counselled for things like- a recruit has to shoot their pistol to qualify and is down to their last attempt. They’re so excited that they shake the instructors hand after squeaking by- the instructor says “nice work pushing through your nerves. I can tell it was ALOT because your palms are sweaty”. Harassment complaint AND bullying,

The name “depot” could be the issue because they like to pretend that the place in the late 70s and today is the same.

I want to ❤ this & ☹ this at the same time

If a recruit isn't down to earth enough to chuckle at a comment about sweaty hands, and are triggered enough to consider that bullying...just wait until a suspect punches them in the f**king face while calling them a f**king pig...

 

[Spencer100]

My two cents.....and its not even worth that.

Its not the "military training" that gets me its the "tacticool" of some depts. Do you really need the dark black combat clothing to patrol the street downtown. The boot blousing, low vis patches etc. Should It not be the opposite? HIgh vis and friendly? (there are times for the tactical but its is over done in my mind)

Should patroling the weekend beach at Grand Bend be in blacked out tactical gear. Maybe shorts and a smile would be better? Yes it can get out of hand but why start by upping it with a dark look?

Quick story....in the 90's I had US university friends over for the weekend. The downtown Windsor at the time was the place and jumpin. Thing that got them was our cops "looked the business: the red pant stripe and peaked cap they thought was the look. The cops meant business.

I hate police in ballcaps. Just my opinion.

The "militarization" of police is more of an issue my mind than being trained in a military type format as a tool to learn.

 

[mariomike]

I think that could & potentially should be argued to be 90% of their job also, especially when inside someone's home

The police control the streets. At least, I hope they do. It has to be that way.

But, as you say, inside someone's home is a different dynamic. I looked at it entirely as customer service.

The police are in an enforcement situation.

Not a rhetorical question. But, is there a formula for measuring police productivity?

Ours was UhU.

I remember reading a while back from an Lt. "Retired from the Golden Era of LAPD."

By Golden Era, I believe he was referring to pre-Rodney King.

Starting in 1973, affirmative action & consent decrees changed LAPD culture from aggressively pursuing criminals to laying back in police cars, taking careful and lengthy reports, while gangs ran wild in the streets and portions of L.A. were terrorized by thugs.

When I was in the field in the 1960s, our 3,400 policemen (our Civil Service rank) arrested 100,000 more criminals than do today's 10,000 affirmative action wonders. (Attorney GARY INGEMUNSON in "Warning Bells," Thin Blue Line, July 2005, p. 13—Also L.A. Times of 13 March 1996, pp. B-1 & 3): A “distressed Mayor Richard Riordan…said it was vexing to learn that LAPD is now making 100,000 fewer arrests, issuing over 200,000 fewer citations, and conducting over 20,000 fewer field interviews per year.”

To Protect and to Serve: The LAPD's Century of War in the City of Dreams​

Give no slack and take no shit from anyone. Confront and command. Control the streets at all times. Always be aggressive. Stop crimes before they happen. Seek them out. Shake them down. Make that arrest. Hit the streets and eliminate the lice.

 

[Halifax Tar]

My two cents.....and its not even worth that.

Its not the "military training" that gets me its the "tacticool" of some depts. Do you really need the dark black combat clothing to patrol the street downtown. The boot blousing, low vis patches etc. Should It not be the opposite? HIgh vis and friendly? (there are times for the tactical but its is over done in my mind)

Should patroling the weekend beach at Grand Bend be in blacked out tactical gear. Maybe shorts and a smile would be better? Yes it can get out of hand but why start by upping it with a dark look?

Quick story....in the 90's I had US university friends over for the weekend. The downtown Windsor at the time was the place and jumpin. Thing that got them was our cops "looked the business: the red pant stripe and peaked cap they thought was the look. The cops meant business.

I hate police in ballcaps. Just my opinion.

The "militarization" of police is more of an issue my mind than being trained in a military type format as a tool to learn.

You might be on to something.

Maybe for the municipal services more beat cops. Walking neighborhoods and streets.

 

[lenaitch]

My two cents.....and its not even worth that.

Its not the "military training" that gets me its the "tacticool" of some depts. Do you really need the dark black combat clothing to patrol the street downtown. The boot blousing, low vis patches etc. Should It not be the opposite? HIgh vis and friendly? (there are times for the tactical but its is over done in my mind)

Should patroling the weekend beach at Grand Bend be in blacked out tactical gear. Maybe shorts and a smile would be better? Yes it can get out of hand but why start by upping it with a dark look?

Quick story....in the 90's I had US university friends over for the weekend. The downtown Windsor at the time was the place and jumpin. Thing that got them was our cops "looked the business: the red pant stripe and peaked cap they thought was the look. The cops meant business.

I hate police in ballcaps. Just my opinion.

The "militarization" of police is more of an issue my mind than being trained in a military type format as a tool to learn.

I'm with you on some points. Not a fan of ball caps, but here we are. I wasn't aware that some departments had low-vis patches and bloused tac pants as part of the general service uniform but I don't get around as much as I used to. If you saw some OPP members at Grand Bend wearing low-vis, it might have been ERT members supplementing on a weekend. They should have been is general service uniform, but maybe that's just me.

If by "black combat clothing" I assume you are referring to the dark shirts (actually 'LAPD Blue' if I recall correctly). I don't know about other services but the OPP moved away from light blue shirts after a member was shot and killed in N/W Ontario. The statement from the accused said he could see our members vey clearly even in low light. Further studies confirmed this. I would have preferred an earth tone like brown or light green because it is cooler, doesn't show dirt as well and isn't as attractive to biting insects but (a) they didn't ask and (b) there would have been confusion with Conservations Officers. The SQ used to have a similar colour and I think they have moved to dark blue as well.

I really, really dislike external body armour carriers, but with the amount of gear they are mandated to carry now, there simply isn't enough room on a belt and carrying too much weight on the belt can cause long term back problems. The new body armour carriers are load-bearing.

Shorts? Meh; not a fan unless you are on bicycle or marine duty.

 

[Booter]

My two cents.....and its not even worth that.

Its not the "military training" that gets me its the "tacticool" of some depts. Do you really need the dark black combat clothing to patrol the street downtown. The boot blousing, low vis patches etc. Should It not be the opposite? HIgh vis and friendly? (there are times for the tactical but its is over done in my mind)

Should patroling the weekend beach at Grand Bend be in blacked out tactical gear. Maybe shorts and a smile would be better? Yes it can get out of hand but why start by upping it with a dark look?

Quick story....in the 90's I had US university friends over for the weekend. The downtown Windsor at the time was the place and jumpin. Thing that got them was our cops "looked the business: the red pant stripe and peaked cap they thought was the look. The cops meant business.

I hate police in ballcaps. Just my opinion.

The "militarization" of police is more of an issue my mind than being trained in a military type format as a tool to learn.

I’m not familiar with a force in Canada with bloused boots on patrol unless they are ERT variations. And even them- there are very few bloused boots.

 

[Booter]

You might be on to something.

Maybe for the municipal services more beat cops. Walking neighborhoods and streets.

How does a beat cop assist with charging offenders and dealing with a backlog of 911 calls?

 

[Halifax Tar]

How does a beat cop assist with charging offenders and dealing with a backlog of 911 calls?

I'm my dream world you guys and gals would staffed to have people walking beats and flying around dealing with 911 calls.

I know in Halifax we are having a big issue with shop lifting and stores are no locking their doors and tightly controlling who can come in. Beat cops might help curb that.

And the knock on might be to rebuild some of the community - police relations that have been so badly damaged.

 

[Booter]

In a better staffed world I agree. I like having my people out walking when there isn’t anything going on. Or I did in the city anyways.

It’s An excuse to get ice cream anyways lol

 

[BrianWL]

In a better staffed world I agree. I like having my people out walking when there isn’t anything going on. Or I did in the city anyways.

It’s An excuse to get ice cream anyways lol

time to reevaluate what core functions are..............and hopefully get cops back out on foot, bicycle, etc....

 

[mariomike]

Some , I'm sure not all, beat cops in our town spent a lot of couch time in paramedic stations watching TV.

 

[BrianWL]

Some , I'm sure not all, beat cops in our town spent a lot of couch time in paramedic stations watching TV.

ha ha. practicing to be paramedics, minus all the science and stuff.

 

[daftandbarmy]

time to reevaluate what core functions are..............and hopefully get cops back out on foot, bicycle, etc....

That was the main activity of the RUC in places like Belfast, which helped end a decades old conflict through reintroducing the police as trusted members of the community.

Nothing like having the cop you're escorting on his daily tasks shake an angry finger at a kid just about to chuck a brick at you and exclaim something like "I know you Bobby Smith and, if you throw that, I'll drag you back to your Mammy's for a proper bashing.'