Update on Current Requirements for Joining the CF and open Direct Entry Trades

[Otis]

I watched my ROTP hopes crumble this year due to some administrative carelessness. Is pilot still open for ROTP but closed for DEO?

I am starting the CAMP program at Western this coming September. Will my application be treated seriously since this program is heavily favored by the DND for ROTP pilot cadets when/if pilot becomes open?

CAMP is the ONLY recognized Civilian ROTP program for Pilot, so it should be taken seriously.

Pilot is currently closed entirely, as our next selection for ROTP is not until next November (for the 2010 school year)


Apply early in September for the ROTP and let them know you're currently at CAMP (i.e. take in your acceptance letter and when you get them, your first semester transcripts!)

Good luck!

 

[Ammo]

OTIS,
What about Ammo Tech? We are still red as far as I know>

 

[Otis]

OTIS,
What about Ammo Tech? We are still red as far as I know>

I don't know what the status of your trade is, but it IS still open for entry, though it's not one of the high demand ones (we have only a few positions to fill nationally)

 

[gcclarke]

The Director Personnel Generation Requirements intranet site at hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgmp/dpgr/engraph/reports/description_e.asp?sec=2&report=bpd lists a forecast occupation status for Ammo Techs for March 31 2010 of 76% (152 / 200), with an expected long recovery time. On the brighter side, they did manage to hit 94% of the recruiting target for 08/09.

 

[Otis]

On the brighter side, they did manage to hit 94% of the recruiting target for 08/09.

Yea us!

We're currently sitting at 50% of the National intake for this year (already) so maybe we'll hit 100% of our target for 09/10!

 

[armyvern]

The Director Personnel Generation Requirements intranet site at hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgmp/dpgr/engraph/reports/description_e.asp?sec=2&report=bpd lists a forecast occupation status for Ammo Techs for March 31 2010 of 76% (152 / 200), with an expected long recovery time. On the brighter side, they did manage to hit 94% of the recruiting target for 08/09.

Even brighter will be when recruiting intake can keep up the sheer volume of "VRs" being submitted ...

But as long as the recruiting targets are lesser numbers than those VRing in an unforecasted fashion, we'll continue to be undermanned/understrength in support trades.

 

[CFR FCS]

Maybe it's time to adopt the US reenlistment incentives and actually pay people (tax free of course) to renew their contracts. We did it a few years ago with pilots, I vaguely remember a 90K bonus paid over three years.  The Old school leadership doesn't seem to realize that a soldier  / airman (person)  / sailor who leaves with 20 years experience or more can NOT be replaced one for one by a new recruit.

 

[gcclarke]

Maybe it's time to adopt the US reenlistment incentives and actually pay people (tax free of course) to renew their contracts. We did it a few years ago with pilots, I vaguely remember a 90K bonus paid over three years.  The Old school leadership doesn't seem to realize that a soldier  / airman (person)  / sailor who leaves with 20 years experience or more can NOT be replaced one for one by a new recruit.

I don't really think that it's a matter of convincing the "old school leadership." Anyone who's been in the CF for any reasonable amount of time knows that retention is a major issue, and I'm sure a lot of them would indeed love to be able to simply throw some money at the problem. The issue is actually convincing the people who would have to actually foot the bill (Treasury Board, Parliament, Canadian citizenry in general) that this is the most effective use of taxpayer money for this purpose.

I'm sure that everyone in NDHQ would love to just double every service member's salary, and give everyone 50 days of leave a year. That would probably mostly fix the problem. Unfortunately, it's just not a decision that is theirs to make.

 

[Good2Go]

stalled trg + not entitled to have family join you whilst waiting = VRs (IMHO)

(At the yr 1 and 2 serv in level)

 

[PMedMoe]

not entitled to have family join you whilst waiting = VRs (IMHO)

(At the yr 1 and 2 serv in level)

Guess what, get used to it, depending on what you and your family want (or, if you're both military).  Not just in the first 1 or 2 years of service, either.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Guess what, get used to it, depending on what you and your family want (or, if you're both military).  Not just in the first 1 or 2 years of service, either.

But, IMO, this isn't a situation that is helping any.  People sitting around in places like PRETC, doing absolutely nothing other than rackin' up "pensionable time" for exended periods. 

I am a firm believer in the EWAT concept where Joe and Jane can return to their home area while on an extended wait for trg and be employed at either the nearest Reg or Res Force unit [provided said unit has a place AND meaningful employment for them].  We had a 291'r who worked as IT Sp at one of our sub-units while waiting for his 3's course (just over 1 year IIRC).  This was win-win from my perspective...

- Joe and Jane Taxpayer didn't have to supply free R & Q, and Seperation Allowance for XX months;
- 291'r guy was happy, getting experience on DND IT Systems, and went home to his  young family (please, do not blow off the importance of this...);
- the local Res unit in Truro had the benefit of 291'rs support day-to-day, and they were a unit spread out in several armouries/locations.

While this won't be possible for everyone...it sure worked out well for the tax payers, the member, and the CF (IMO) in this particular case.

 

[PMedMoe]

EITS, I agree with you 100%.  Unfortunately, I don't write the posting policy.  :-\

We had a similar case with one of the Med Techs when I was in Pet.  Instead of having them sit on PRETC while waiting for their QL3 course, they allowed them to come back to Pet to do OJT at the unit.  Granted, there's not a whole heck of a lot that an untrained person can do, but it's a field unit.  There's always canvas that needs folding. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

EITS, I agree with you 100%.  Unfortunately, I don't write the posting policy.  :-\

We had a similar case with one of the Med Techs when I was in Pet.  Instead of having them sit on PRETC while waiting for their QL3 course, they allowed them to come back to Pet to do OJT at the unit.  Granted, there's not a whole heck of a lot that an untrained person can do, but it's a field unit.  There's always canvas that needs folding. 

And vehicles that need driving and washing  ;D

>

 

[daindophia]

This thread has been helpful, I thank OTIS!
I am an applicant for ROTP/RMC for Pilot this year, meaning I'll be applying very soon.
I am aware that the Pilot occupation was closed for entry last year, but for this year's selection, is it open again? I read somewhere else that there will be a new "demand"(hardly, probably) for pilots in roughly 4-6 years from now, so they will be accepting ROTP applicants in this field. So, my basic question is,

"Are they recruiting pilot applicants this coming November, or is it closed like last year?"
Thanks everyone in advance

 

[Dou You]

From what I've been told you are in the best position to become a Pilot right now (through ROTP). The only way to get into Pilot right now is through ROTP...any other way is closed I believe. I'm also applying this year for ROTP for Pilot so I'm hoping that what I've been told is correct! lol Maybe someone with more info could clarify this for him though...after all, I am still just a Pilot wannabe...for now ;D

 

[Dombi]

As a Recruiter, if someone insists, we have to let them apply, regardless of how hopeless their chances -

I am a bit lost now. I went to my CFRC a month ago. I wanted to be a Pilot (I hold a private licence). I filled an application for ACSO, PILOT and CAERO since I couldn't put Pilot has my first choice. I got an appointment to do the CFAT. At that time I saw on my application that they took off my third choice (CAERO) and kept the two others. I looked on the little paper with my name, test, date/time on it and saw that I am there for the  183/182 MOCs. I know that those are Pilot and ACSO. they changed the order that was on my application form. At that time I was thinking that my profile was so "hot" that they decided to let me get in.

What I can understand from your post is that if I complete sucessfully the process, I will end on a list for a few years, is that right ?  :-\

 

[biggs]

We haven't enrolled anyone as a DEO Pilot in three years ... just ROTP applicants.

Seriously?  and in Toronto, no less!  Add to that the fact that DEOs come a bit cheaper, having paid for their own education, and I find the fact that they take so few a bit mind boggling.  I understand, of course, that it costs well into the seven-figure amounts to train a Pilot, but surely a five (or six) figure amount saved in university costs counts for something.

 

[George Wallace]

Seriously?  and in Toronto, no less!  Add to that the fact that DEOs come a bit cheaper, having paid for their own education, .........

Conversely, having been a DEO, the Government, DND, and the CF have invested a lot of monies in ROTP candidates, that they want to see a return for their buck.  It is therefore much easier to fail out a DEO and Release them from the CF, not facing any great monetary loss, than it is to fail a ROTP candidate and Release them.  This does not say that ROTP candidates do not fail.  They do, but are then transfered to another occupation to serve out their time.  In the end the Government, DND and the CF figure they got some bang for their buck.

 

[biggs]

So in other words, DEOs are easy-come easy-go?

This does not say that ROTP candidates do not fail.  They do, but are then transfered to another occupation to serve out their time.  In the end the Government, DND and the CF figure they got some bang for their buck.

I can see how they arrive at that conclusion, but it still doesn't explain why they take so many more ROTP candidates ab initio, particularly for Pilot.

 

[George Wallace]

So in other words, DEOs are easy-come easy-go?

Cannon fodder might better describe them.