Untrained BMQ Candidate Alleges Abuse by Directing Staff Sergeant

[George Wallace]

Ah, you are correct. So be it. I guess that just makes me more like everyone else in this thread, passing judgement on someone without waiting for official judgement. I just happen to be on the other side.

Or perhaps you are mistaking the knowledge of the people who have posted, who have actually been Instructors at various Schools, including Recruit School, and their suspicions of what the 'defendant' is claiming and what the 'accused' may have done; having known the system, "been there and got the T-shirt" and know what is expected of all CAF Instructors, for something else. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Ah, you are correct. So be it. I guess that just makes me more like everyone else in this thread, passing judgement on someone without waiting for official judgement. I just happen to be on the other side.

I just reread the first 2 pages of this thread and it's about 50/50 so you are full of shit............just sayin.
Unless of course you're talking about whether he's a veteran or not, then you'd be pretty lonely 'on the other side.'

 

[PhoenixWright]

Or perhaps you are mistaking the knowledge of the people who have posted, who have actually been Instructors at various Schools, including Recruit School, and their suspicions of what the 'defendant' is claiming and what the 'accused' may have done; having known the system, "been there and got the T-shirt" and know what is expected of all CAF Instructors, for something else.

Hmm. Changed tacts pretty quickly there. Anyway, if you are implying that you or others here have firsthand knowledge of the case at hand it would be very unwise to be discussing them in this forum, especially with the now looming legal proceedings. But I don't think that's what you meant. Merely having been at the school at one point in time gives you no insight into the current case, and you yourself just said it was important not to pass judgement.

And why did you put defendant and accused in quotation marks? There isn't any ambiguity there, they are in fact, an accused and a defendant. Shame I don't have a T-shirt, then I would know it's not okay to cripple people.

I just reread the first 2 pages of this thread and it's about 50/50 so you are full of crap............just sayin.
Unless of course you're talking about whether he's a veteran or not, then you'd be pretty lonely 'on the other side.'

Hm. So you even admit that your count is a rough estimate of not even the entire thread. But anyway, it's not just here the Robichaud is vilified.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

But anyway, it's not just here the Robichaud is vilified.

in this thread,

Get a grip on yourself lad.  We try hard to keep things here on an even keel which isn't easy considering this is the internet with all it's anonymity.

Carry on..........

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Hmm. Changed tacts pretty quickly there. Anyway, if you are implying that you or others here have firsthand knowledge of the case at hand it would be very unwise to be discussing them in this forum, especially with the now looming legal proceedings. But I don't think that's what you meant. Merely having been at the school at one point in time gives you no insight into the current case, and you yourself just said it was important not to pass judgement.

Pot, meet fuckin' kettle.  :

I wasn't at the school.  That doesn't matter, because it has NOTHING to do, ZERO relevance with the established FACT that the Pte did not...read it...NOT...pass BMQ.

I don't care what happens with the case.  I have no iron in that fire and only hope that facts are determined and there is no bias, on either party.

HOWEVER...you could put a gun to my head or a hot rusty BBQ fork up my ass and I still will not consider that person...a veteran.  Don't bother showing me a link to this or that definition.

Most (real) veterans I know don't go around calling themselves veterans.  They are silently proud of the service they gave to their country, they ask for nothing in return and certainly don't hire lawyers to make sure the words sticks at the end of their names in news stories.

I have 2 decades plus change in uniform.  I think that gives me the right to my opinion on it.  I don't have a veteran plate on my card, because I walk what I talk.

Fuck me senseless.  Couldn't complete BASIC military training and a veteran.  : 

 

[George Wallace]

Hmm. Changed tacts pretty quickly there. Anyway, if you are implying that you or others here have firsthand knowledge of the case at hand it would be very unwise to be discussing them in this forum, especially with the now looming legal proceedings. But I don't think that's what you meant. Merely having been at the school at one point in time gives you no insight into the current case, and you yourself just said it was important not to pass judgement.

Now you are just being a smart ass.  Many of the posters do have full knowledge of CAF references to instruction, harassment, etc. and what is expected of all instructors.  Being intimately involved with this case is not the question.

And why did you put defendant and accused in quotation marks? There isn't any ambiguity there, they are in fact, an accused and a defendant. Shame I don't have a T-shirt, then I would know it's not okay to cripple people.

Again, you are just being a smart ass.  Perhaps we should end this here, as arguing with you is a waste of time.  You have made an uninformed judgement and are sticking to it.  Others here are looking for answers and what actually transpired, not just a claim of an accuser.

 

[rinoakes]

Others here are looking for answers and what actually transpired, not just a claim of an accuser.

Really? All I see is people bitching about how recruits are 'weak' these days and we don't train them well enough.
Maybe the guy just found bmq too hard and is blaming the instructor. Maybe he has a legitimate case. Who knows. But, he is still technically in the military and was injured mentally and physically because of his job, and he deserves benefits and compensation for that. Whether you choose to give him the title of veteran or not is irrelevant.

 

[PhoenixWright]

Pot, meet ******' kettle.  :

I wasn't at the school.  That doesn't matter, because it has NOTHING to do, ZERO relevance with the established FACT that the Pte did not...read it...NOT...pass BMQ.

I don't care what happens with the case.  I have no iron in that fire and only hope that facts are determined and there is no bias, on either party.

HOWEVER...you could put a gun to my head or a hot rusty BBQ fork up my *** and I still will not consider that person...a veteran.  Don't bother showing me a link to this or that definition.

Most (real) veterans I know don't go around calling themselves veterans.  They are silently proud of the service they gave to their country, they ask for nothing in return and certainly don't hire lawyers to make sure the words sticks at the end of their names in news stories.

I have 2 decades plus change in uniform.  I think that gives me the right to my opinion on it.  I don't have a veteran plate on my card, because I walk what I talk.

frig me senseless.  Couldn't complete BASIC military training and a veteran.  :

I see you used a black pot/kettle comparison to compare me to myself. That's interesting.

You are correct, he did not pass basic training. He was however, in the service of the military when he got injured. His claims of his injured achilles tendon and PTSD, I believe, were obviously true because Veterans Affairs believes him and he now has the care he needs.

The world isn't just black and white, sometimes there are exceptions.

But yeah, a veteran is a state of being whether you walk around telling people or not. A person who goes to afghanistan and has veteran plates isn't any less real than you and your self imposed restriction on what you call yourself.

Now you are just being a smart ***.  Many of the posters do have full knowledge of CAF references to instruction, harassment, etc. and what is expected of all instructors.  Being intimately involved with this case is not the question.

Again, you are just being a smart ***.  Perhaps we should end this here, as arguing with you is a waste of time.  You have made an uninformed judgement and are sticking to it.  Others here are looking for answers and what actually transpired, not just a claim of an accuser.

Yes but George, just because you know what is expected of instructors doesn't mean you can say this instructor acted appropriately or not. If anything it should be telling you he didn't act appropriately. If being intimately involved in the case isn't the question, what is the question?

If you're going to get mad at people for uninformed judgements, this whole website must infuriate you.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

was injured mentally and physically because of his job, and he deserves benefits and compensation for that.

Really??  Tell that to thousands and thousands who spend years at their jobs, get hurt, and get the door..........

 

[rinoakes]

Really??  Tell that to thousands and thousands who spend years at their jobs, get hurt, and get the door..........

This article is about the military. If someone is injured in military they get health care, medical pension, and benefits. What kind of job are you talking about?

 

[PhoenixWright]

Well, they should be getting benefits too. Sometimes you have to fight for them. Point in case

 

[RedcapCrusader]

From his lawyer's website:

http://mdlo.ca/uncategorized/dnd-charged-cfb-st-jean-recruit-instructor-for-assaulting-recruits/

October 23, 2014.

Global Television has reported the case of retired Private James Robichaud alleging significant and repeated physical abuse during his recruit training in 2009-2010 at CFB Saint-Jean-sur-le-Richelieu,Quebec. Other recruits were also allegedly subject to abuse and were harassed by the same instructor who is now serving with 2 Service Battalion in Petawawa, Ontario.

Robichaud alleged that the physical abuse endured at the hands of his recruit instructor was so traumatizing that it left him with long term physical and mental injuries, and sabotaged his military career.  His allegations were investigated by the National Investigation Service (NIS) only after Michel Drapeau Law Office (MDLO) in April 2012 wrote to the the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, the Judge Advocate General and the Provost Marshall.  The NIS first laid charges in January 2014. However, it took nine months for the Director of Military Prosecution to prefer the charges.

The Director of Military Prosecutions, Office of the Judge Advocate General, has now preferred charges against Master-Corporal J. Franco Guarrnaccia, 2 Service Battalion, CFB Petawawa with a total of five charges

First charge.  Section 95 of the National Defence Act. Abuse of subordinates. (Victim: Private James Robichaud)
Second charge. Section  266 of the Criminal Code. Assault (Victim: Private James Robichaud)
Third charge. Section 95 of the National Defence Act. Abuse of subordinates. (Victim: Another private recruit on the same course)
Fourth charge. Section  266 of the Criminal Code. Assault. (Victim: Another private recruit on the same course)
Fifth charge. Section 129 of the National Defence Act. Conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline for intimidating and harassing recruits.
See link


A copy of the Charge Sheet is attached here: Charge Sheet Guarnaccia (French only)

It is anticipated that the trial will take place in Base des forces canadiennes Saint-Jean-sur-le Richelieu. The trial is not expected to take place until late summer or fall 2015.

 

[cryco]

When something like this occurs, don't the colleagues of the 'abusive' instructor say something to him/her?

 

[George Wallace]

When something like this occurs, don't the colleagues of the 'abusive' instructor say something to him/her?

Yes they do; and so do their superiors. 

 

[George Wallace]

From his lawyer's website:

http://mdlo.ca/uncategorized/dnd-charged-cfb-st-jean-recruit-instructor-for-assaulting-recruits/

Interesting to note that the person here being charged is not a Sergeant, but a MCpl.  So where did the "Sergeant" come from in these accusations?  Was the Pte so uneducated in the military to not know the rank structure, or is this another case of the media not getting the facts right?

 

[Brasidas]

Interesting to note that the person here being charged is not a Sergeant, but a MCpl.  So where did the "Sergeant" come from in these accusations?  Was the Pte so uneducated in the military to not know the rank structure, or is this another case of the media not getting the facts right?

I'm not seeing any quotes where he said the word. The rank could have been introduced by the media or the lawyer. "Instructor" doesn't roll of a reporter's tongue the same way that "drill sergeant" does.

 

[X Royal]

Interesting to note that the person here being charged is not a Sergeant, but a MCpl.  So where did the "Sergeant" come from in these accusations?  Was the Pte so uneducated in the military to not know the rank structure, or is this another case of the media not getting the facts right?

George I suspect the "drill sergeant" from the original story was phrase the reporter added on his own.
That being said I have known some Sgt's who later became MCpl's. Some after remusters and other for reasons that lead to charges.

 

[George Wallace]

Just adds to the fact that we, along with the majority of media, have no real insight into the facts of the case.  We only have the 'claims' of Robichaud.  Even Michel Drapeau's site gives only the barest of information as to what the charges are.  As it is now before the Military Legal System, we can only wait for the outcome of the case and the published transcripts of the proceedings (which will again take some time to be published).  Then we will know whether or not Mr James Robichaud's claims are factual or not. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This article is about the military. If someone is injured in military they get health care, medical pension, and benefits. What kind of job are you talking about?

That statement shows the absolute ignorance of what you believe.

The fact is many (could easily be thousands) serving and retired veterans do not receive the proper health care, medical pensions and benefits they deserve. They have had to fight tooth and nail, all the way to the SCC, in an attempt to get what they are entitled to.

 

[MAJONES]

really?  I know you're probably ball parking, but do most really want to be pilots or mp? How small a percentage  are the combat arms applicants?

I was just ball parking.  From what I remember from working at the CFRC there was always a huge surplus of applicants for Pilot, MP, RMS Clerk and MSE OP.  We usually had just enough good combat arms applicants to meet the SIP, (except in artillery; both officer and NCM.  For some reason nobody wanted to be a gunner).  Where we had problems was filling the tech trades.  A large number of the applicants for these positions didn't meet the minimum CFAT score for them.  We never made the SIP for these positions.
This brings me back to my original point;  We are too short handed in some trades to turn away potential candidates in an arbitrary manner.