Units Heading To Southern Border

[mariomike]

Posse Comitatus Act does not apply - the President can use troops to enforce federal legislation.

Regarding that,

Today the President declared that the military would secure the border until a wall is built.

Wouldn't that be a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act?

Reply #655 >>>
https://army.ca/forums/threads/127136/post-1528140.html#msg1528140

 

[FJAG]

Posse Comitatus Act does not apply - the President can use troops to enforce federal legislation.

3,000 km - on the prairies we call that a 2 day drive.

Yes and No.

In the mid-20th century, the administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower used an exception to the Posse Comitatus Act, derived from the Enforcement Acts, to send federal troops into Little Rock, Arkansas, during the 1957 school desegregation crisis. The Arkansas governor had opposed desegregation after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1954 in the Brown v. Board of Education that segregated public schools were unconstitutional. The Enforcement Acts, among other powers, allow the president to call up military forces when state authorities are either unable or unwilling to suppress violence that is in opposition to the constitutional rights of the people.[2]

and

Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress;  . . .

and

The President may employ the armed forces... to... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition... the President determines that... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such... a condition... so hinders the execution of the laws... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws

See here for the basis behind the Act:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

The Posse Comitatus Act is broad and the exceptions are narrow. As usual people argue around the edges of both. Generally the US Army tends to be very cautious to not overreach.

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

3,000 km - on the prairies we call that a 2 day drive.

QUOTE

1 hour ago

US Army report says only around 20 per cent of migrants in caravan will reach US as Trump predicts ‘invasion’.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/migrant-caravan-us-army-military-report-reach-border-trump-mexico-central-america-immigration-a8615851.html
Caravan members unlikely to arrive for at least two to four weeks and no travellers from Middle East expected, according to unclassified report.

END QUOTE

 

[Rocky Mountains]

The Posse Comitatus Act is broad and the exceptions are narrow. As usual people argue around the edges of both. Generally the US Army tends to be very cautious to not overreach.

A wild guess but my thought is that the army securing the border is not what The Posse Comitatus Act was trying to hinder.  It was passed at the end of military occupation of the South.

 

[brihard]

Essentially the civil authority has to have failed / be incapable of dealing with a law enforcement situation for federal troops to be involved. Obviously that would be farcical to claim in this case. A few thousand people showing up asking for asylum is not a nation-threatening emergency. It's just another day at the border. IT's well within the capacity of domestic law enforcement to weather this storm.

The military deployment will be primarily logistical in its support. It would be very inappropriate to use soldiers in a law enforcement role, and the Pentagon has wisely pushed back and said 'no'.

 

[OldSolduer]

Not a lawyer but I’ll bet the ROE will be very restricted. Pointing out the obvious.

 

[mariomike]

Not a lawyer but I’ll bet the ROE will be very restricted.

What the military can and cannot do at the border
https://www.axios.com/what-the-military-can-and-cannot-do-at-the-border-5a7d2744-5dfa-498c-b9f7-5b0c73bf7ea7.html

 

[NavyShooter]

My suspicions about what their military 'might' do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq18pOihjyk

 

[tomahawk6]

Texas section of the border wall will begin in Feb. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/145m-border-wall-project-in-texas-awarded-customs-and-border-protection-says

 

[Journeyman]

Texas section of the border wall will begin in Feb.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/145m-border-wall-project-in-texas-awarded-customs-and-border-protection-says

So, Texas and Mexico share 1,254 miles of common border;  $145 million will begin  building "roughly six miles of border wall in Texas."

    :rofl:  Awesome.

 

[brihard]

So, Texas and Mexico share 1,254 miles of common border;  $145 million will begin  building "roughly six miles of border wall in Texas."

    :rofl:  Awesome.

At least Mexico's paying for it right?

Right?

 

[tomahawk6]

It is in an area that see the most migrant activity probably because the water may not be very deep.

 

[Journeyman]

It is in an area that see the most migrant activity probably because the water may not be very deep.

Ahhh, got it.  At $145M, the actual placement  of the relatively insignificant 6 miles worth of wall was what raised eyebrows.

Obviously money well spent;  it's clearly a great time to be a contractor in the southern US, or an Asian financier who owns America's debt.


Now that I understand, I'll back away from any discussion of which units are heading south, and why. 

 

[tomahawk6]

Until Congress fully funds the border wall, this 6 mile stretch is probably just plugging one leak while another appears elsewhere. Texas has a large Army National Guard so they could guard their own. If they need help there are Regular Army units at Ft Bliss and Ft Hood.

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/36th_Infantry_Division_(United_States)

45th Infantry Brigade Combat Team (OK ARNG)
Special Troops Battalion[8]
1st Battalion, 179th Infantry Regiment
1st Squadron, 180th Cavalry Regiment (RSTA)
1st Battalion, 279th Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion, 160th Field Artillery Regiment
700th Brigade Support Battalion
56th Infantry Brigade Combat Team (TX ARNG)
Special Troops Battalion[9]
1st Squadron, 124th Cavalry Regiment (RSTA)
2nd Battalion, 142nd Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion, 144th Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion, 133rd Field Artillery Regiment
949th Brigade Support Battalion
72nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (TX ARNG)
Special Troops Battalion[10]
1st Squadron, 112th Cavalry Regiment (RSTA)
1st Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion, 141st Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion, 133rd Field Artillery Regiment
536th Brigade Support Battalion
155th Heavy Brigade Combat Team (MS ARNG)
Special Troops Battalion[11]
1st Squadron, 98th Cavalry Regiment
2nd Battalion, 198th Armor Regiment
1st Battalion, 155th Infantry Regiment
2nd Battalion, 114th Field Artillery Regiment
106th Brigade Support Battalion
256th Infantry Brigade Combat Team (LA NG)
Special Troops Battalion[12]
2nd Squadron, 108th Cavalry Regiment (RSTA)
2nd Battalion, 156th Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion, 156th Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion, 141st Field Artillery Regiment
199th Brigade Support Battalion
Combat Aviation Brigade, 36th Infantry Division (TX NG)
Headquarters and Headquarters Company (TX NG)
2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation Regiment (General Support) (TX NG) (HQ Grand Prairie, Texas)[13]
1st Battalion, 149th Aviation Regiment (Attack/Recon) (TX NG)
3rd Battalion, 131st Aviation Regiment (Assault) (AL NG)
1st Battalion, 114th Aviation Regiment (S&S) (AR NG)
449th Aviation Support Battalion (TX NG)
Attached unitsEdit
136th Maneuver Enhancement Brigade [14]
36th Sustainment Brigade [15]
71st Battlefield Surveillance Brigade [16]
3rd Squadron, 124th Cavalry Regiment (R&S)[17]
636st Military Intelligence Battalion
321st Military Intelligence Battalion (USAR) (TX)
143rd Network Support Signal Company
112th Brigade Support Company
236th Network Support Company

 

[larry Strong]

Interesting....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/05/us/border-wall.html

Cheers
Larry

 

[Old Sweat]

Interesting....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/05/us/border-wall.html

Cheers
Larry

Several years ago my wife and I spent part of a winter in our RV in the Mission (near McAllen) TX area on the lower Rio Grande. We took a boat tour of a stretch of the river which is quite wide because of an impoundment. The guide mentioned that the Border Patrol had constructed some fences, but [he claimed] because of a desire to allow migratory waterfowl access to the river, the fence had been moved inland. Whether this was the case or, as stated in the above article, it was to site it on government property does not really matter. The fence is not on the border in this area. Later inspection by car indicated this was indeed the case and border crossers had relatively free access to the United States. In this case, it appears bureaucracy trumped security. [no pun intended]

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Why doesn't the US negotiate with Mexico to place US immigration officers on the Mexican side of the border where illegals could be turned back before they are physically within the US?  Makes too much sense.  A rudimentary document search could be done in Mexico before waiving them into regular border search within the US.

 

[Journeyman]

Why doesn't the US negotiate with Mexico to place US immigration officers on the Mexican side of the border where illegals could be turned back before they are physically within the US?  Makes too much sense. 

Maybe....
- such discussions are  already taking place;  the 'invasion' is still months away;
- Mexicans are a proud people, who feel they can look after their own security needs without Americans on their territory;
- they're reacting to months of Trump's insults and abuse during NAFTA negotiations, and are giving him the finger;
- they have absolutely no interest in keeping the migrants from entering the US -- the sooner they're out of Mexico, the better.
- any combination of the above.

Those are all 'maybes' because I don't know;  awaiting a more-developed perspective, to me, makes more sense.  :dunno:



[Dammit, I said I was going to walk away from these  'discussions'   :not-again: ]

 

[tomahawk6]

From twitter the troops are already going to work.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrKdvhYUcAAwf6r.png:large

 

[tomahawk6]

The ROE are spelled out in this Army Times article. 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/02/here-are-the-rules-of-engagement-for-troops-deploying-to-the-mexican-border/