Units Heading To Southern Border

[tomahawk6]

Beats serving overseas.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/01/heres-the-list-of-military-units-headed-to-the-border/

 

[mariomike]

For reference to the discussion,

QUOTE

November 2, 2018

Pentagon rejected request for troops to act as emergency law enforcement at border
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/politics/white-house-pentagon-troops-border/index.html

END QUOTE

 

[tomahawk6]

Federal troops can only be used in CONUS under certain conditions the NG are allowed policing roles.During certain disasters like New Orleans Federal troops were used and during rioting Federal troops were brought in. The Border Patrol will be backed up by the Army otherwise the BG will be in charge.

 

[dimsum]

Beats serving overseas.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/01/heres-the-list-of-military-units-headed-to-the-border/

Reading some of the names of the units involved, the US Army is pretty specialized.  They have Engineer units specializing in Horizontal things; are there Vertical ones too?  What about Oblique?  ;D

 

[Blackadder1916]

Reading some of the names of the units involved, the US Army is pretty specialized.  They have Engineer units specializing in Horizontal things; are there Vertical ones too?  What about Oblique?  ;D

Not only units that specialize in horizontal engineering but even trades - Horizontal Construction Engineer (12N) - we used to have CE types who did most of their work horizontally, that's why the yellow CE trucks were crewcabs, room to stretch out for a nap.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Beats serving overseas.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/01/heres-the-list-of-military-units-headed-to-the-border/

Let the doxxing and harassment begin.

 

[FJAG]

Reading some of the names of the units involved, the US Army is pretty specialized.  They have Engineer units specializing in Horizontal things; are there Vertical ones too?  What about Oblique?  ;D

Yes to "Vertical" no to "Oblique".

In brief, horizontal construction companies construct, repair and maintain horizontal facilities such as roads, airfields, culverts, hauls construction material etc.

Vertical construction companies construct, repair and maintain structures such as base camps and other facilities and infrastructure.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-34/fm3_34_2011.pdf

:cheers:

 

[tomahawk6]

Engineers would be helpful building the wall.

 

[FJAG]

Let the doxxing and harassment begin.

In a lot of ways this demonstrates the strength of the US Army's modular system that allows various disparate elements get plugged and played together to form a force (in this case support force) specifically tailored to a mission. Notice the involvement of sustainment, engineering, MP, aviation, public affairs, medical and command and control elements and the complete absence of combat units. Seems that the Pentagon knows what it's doing even if the White House is a little wishy washy on it.

When the Trump administration first asked the Pentagon to send troops to the southern border, the administration wanted the troops to take on duties that Department of Defense officials viewed as law enforcement functions, CNN has learned.

The Pentagon said no.

According to two defense official familiar with the request, the Department of Homeland Security asked that the Pentagon provide a reserve force that could be called upon to provide "crowd and traffic control" and safeguard Customs and Border Protection personnel at the border to counter a group of Central American migrants walking to the US border to request asylum.

The Pentagon rejected the request on October 26, according to one of the officials, even as it signed off on providing DHS with air and logistics support, medical personnel and engineers.
. . .

See rest of article here:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/politics/white-house-pentagon-troops-border/index.html

:cheers:

 

[Jarnhamar]

In a lot of ways this demonstrates the strength of the US Army's modular system that allows various disparate elements get plugged and played together to form a force (in this case support force) specifically tailored to a mission. Notice the involvement of sustainment, engineering, MP, aviation, public affairs, medical and command and control elements and the complete absence of combat units. Seems that the Pentagon knows what it's doing even if the White House is a little wishy washy on it.

Lack of context on my part. Agree 100% but I was speaking more towards the current trend among the US left (and maybe right?) to use doxxing and personal information as a weapon.

Someone wears a Halloween costume you don't like? Try to get them fired - sort of thing. Or how media will scour over social media to push a narrative.

Plus this definitely seems like an invasion force to me, troops were a good call.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Engineers would be helpful building the wall.

Mexico hasn't paid for the materials yet.

 

[FJAG]

Lack of context on my part. Agree 100% but I was speaking more towards the current trend among the US left (and maybe right?) to use doxxing and personal information as a weapon.

Someone wears a Halloween costume you don't like? Try to get them fired - sort of thing. Or how media will scour over social media to push a narrative.

Plus this definitely seems like an invasion force to me, troops were a good call.

Guess that went over my head. I didn't for a minute considering it doxing seeing that the article was in Military Times.

I've been on several aid to civil power ops and can understand how helpful military units can be in providing the support elements for civilian agencies that have neither the organization nor the training to provide base camp, mobility, or local medical support. These units will greatly assist law enforcement agencies with the abilities to perform their roles.

That said, there are no combat units here which is what Trump seemed to have anticipated (based on his speeches and interviews). Several of the MP companies are support companies and not line MP companies. There is reference to the 89th MP Bde from Fort Hood but, although the Bde has four MP battalions, only one, the 720th, comes from Fort Hood. I'd be interested in seeing how many actual MPs will be on the ground and what their tasks will be. My guess is they'll run field detention facilities similar to PW facilities (only nicer and in conjunction with Border Security and Immigration folks).

While I agree that the US should be master of it's own borders and that it's an appropriate role for the Army to support Homeland Security with a group of this size (especially when one considers the terrain of that border) and while I won't second guess the Pentagon on the size of this force, I think the "invasion" and "rampaging" rhetoric coming out of the White House at this time is entirely aimed at fueling racism and fear-mongering amongst the Trump base to get them out for the mid-term vote.

The best estimate is that this "caravan" is still weeks away from the border (if they ever do get there) and while it would be prudent for the Army to have contingency plans in place this deployment at this point in time with all the President's posturing and puffery has dragged the military into a very political, partisan  three-ring circus.

My guess is that after the election this whole thing becomes a nothing sandwich or turns into a :worms:

[cheers]

 

[tomahawk6]

National Guard already at the border. 

http://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1487429/national-guard-troops-deploy-to-southern-us-border/

National Guard troops deploy immediately

Mattis authorized the use of Title 32 duty status and DoD funds for up to 4,000 National Guard personnel to support DHS’s southern border security mission while under the command and control of their respective governors through Sept. 30. Title 32 status is full-time duty other than inactive duty performed by a member of the National Guard. It allows the governor, with the approval of the president or the secretary of defense, to order a member to duty for operational homeland defense activities.
The troops will not perform law enforcement activities or interact with migrants or other individuals detained by DHS without approval from Mattis, according to the DoD memo. Arming will be limited to circumstances that might require self-defense, the memo says.
Air Force Gen. Joseph L. Lengyel the chief of the National Guard Bureau, said in a Twitter post last night that up to 500 troops were deploying immediately in support of the mission. “Always Ready, Always There! Moving up to 500 #NationalGuard troops immediately on the SW border security mission. Vehicles, equipment & helicopters on the way tonight,” the general tweeted.

 

[Journeyman]

….. deployment at this point in time with all the President's posturing and puffery has dragged the military into a very political, partisan  three-ring circus.

My guess is that after the election this whole thing becomes a nothing sandwich or turns into a :worms:

I agree completely that it's nothing more than pre-election kabuki, with all the song and dance to enact some theatrical 'tragedy.'  anic: 


If you can believe those fake news bastards in the US Army, the elections are the main driver of the narratives in all of this [Slide 17]. 

Hell, even Fox News.....yes, FOX NEWS.... has said "the migrants...are more than two months away, if any of them actually come here... But tomorrow is one week before the midterm election, which is what all of this is about." "There is no invasion. No one’s coming to get you. There’s nothing at all to worry about."   Fox News?!  rly:

Believers will believe regardless, but at least Mattis and the US Army are aware of the Posse Comitatus Act. 


My forecast:  the caravan is barely into southern Mexico;  they have about 3000km of very rough, occasionally criminally hostile, real estate to traverse.  The few that actually make it to the border around February will be readily dealt with by the US Border Patrol, amid self-congratulatory claims that "the military deployment [which will be withdrawn post-election, pointing at some tents and barbed-wire as measures of effectiveness]… and the threat of the awesome wall... have won the day for US security."
    :2c:

 

[Retired AF Guy]

If you can believe those fake news bastards in the US Army, the elections are the main driver of the narratives in all of this [Slide 17]. 

Good overview of the situation along the border and the military's response. According to Slide 9 a possible threat could come from unregulated militia members. Slide 29 also mentions possible threats from criminal elements.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

From Mother Jones. Apparently biggest threat may be boredom. Or shoveling manure from BHP horses. I'm sure that would go over well with the troopies.

Operation Enduring Boredom: What Troops Will Actually Face When Caravan Members Eventually Arrive

There is no evidence Border Patrol agents will be overwhelmed by a shrinking caravan weeks away from the United States.

Noah Lanard November 1, 2018 1:34 PM

President Donald Trump likes to portray the still-distant migrant caravan as an invasion: a dehumanized mob that can only be stopped by military might. At Trump’s behest, the Pentagon is now deploying more than 5,000 active-duty soldiers to the border, on top of the 2,100 National Guardsmen who are already there. Trump, who is hellbent on attacking migrants to motivate his base before the midterms, said on Wednesday that he might send up to 15,000 troops to the border, more than the entire US military presence in Afghanistan.

What another 10,000 troops would do is a mystery, even to the commander of US Northern Command, which is responsible for security in North America. “I…saw 14,000 out there,” General Terrence O’Shaughnessy said on Tuesday about rumors of a bigger troop deployment. “I’m not—I honestly don’t even know where that came from. That is not in line with what we’ve been planning.” Soldiers can’t legally enforce immigration laws, so some of the 5,200 troops being deployed now will do things like shoveling manure from the Border Patrol’s horses, in addition to providing logistical support. Like many of the Border Patrol agents they are reinforcing, the soldiers are likely to be extremely bored. The one thing they will almost certainly not be is overwhelmed.

The caravan of roughly 3,000 to 4,000 people walking toward the United States is currently in the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca. It has already diminished in size as some individuals and families opt to stay in Mexico, turn back, or head off on their own. If caravan members head to the nearest border crossings in Texas, they still have more than 800 miles to go. If they follow past caravans and go to California, they will need to cover more than 2,000 miles. (Right now, they’re as close to San Diego as San Antonio is to Seattle.)

It is impossible to know exactly when or how many caravan members will reach the United States. Maureen Meyer, the Mexico director for the Washington Office on Latin America, says that caravan members might start arriving in about two weeks to a month, depending on whether they’re able to get transportation. In April, when Trump sent the National Guard to the border to confront another caravan, roughly 400 migrants—about a quarter of the caravan’s peak size—went to the Tijuana-San Diego border crossing. This caravan is likewise shrinking, and will continue to shrink as the trek goes on. By last week, Mexico had already received applications from more than 1,700 caravan members to seek asylum in the country and remain there.

Stephanie Leutert, the director of a Mexico security initiative at a University of Texas at Austin research center, says past caravans have taken the long route to California to avoid Mexican cartels. Those caravans had more centralized leadership, however, and it’s unclear where this caravan is headed. One thing is apparent, though. “By the time it gets to the US,” Leutert says, “I don’t think it’s going to look the way that it looks at all right now.”

Once at the border, some migrants—particularly adults without asylum claims—are expected to try to cross the border illegally. That is not unusual: Border Patrol apprehended about 1,400 people a day in September. (That number is itself low by historical standards; in the 1990s, there were about 3,500 apprehensions a day.) Family members and minors traveling alone will be much more likely to ask for asylum at officials ports of entry or by presenting themselves to Border Patrol agents after crossing into the United States.

Those who request asylum at border crossings—which is what the Trump administration has told them to do—are likely to be confronted with weeks-long waits. Joanna Williams, the education and advocacy director at the Kino Border Initiative, told Mother Jones earlier this month that there are now about 20-day waits at the Arizona border. Leutert says migrants in Tijuana are waiting a month. Meyer says that if the Trump administration were crafting a logical response to the caravan, it would increase capacity to process asylum claims at ports of entry. But it does not appear to be doing so.

The long waits at ports of entry will likely persuade some asylum-seekers to cross the border illegally so that they can be detained by Border Patrol Agents and request protection. As Mother Jones reported in August, those who opt to wait to be let in could risk being detained by Mexican immigration officials as part of what appears to be a coordinated effort with the United States to prevent some people from requesting asylum in the United States.

To understand the boredom awaiting US troops, it helps to look at the numbers. In a typical month in 2018, the Border Patrol apprehended only two migrants per agent, about one-tenth of the number in the early 1990s. “I understand guys have a tough time staying awake,” one Border Patrol supervisor conceded in 2011. Agents who brought pillows to work were known as “felony sleepers.” Now, Border Patrol is apprehending more families, but that’s not exactly hard work, since many of them want to be caught. A senior Trump administration official told reporters the week before the initial troop announcement that the problem at the border is not that people are getting into the United States, but that they aren’t being deported after they’re apprehended.

    "In fiscal 2018, the average Border Patrol agent apprehended 23 migrants. All year.

    9 of them would've been kids and family members, leaving 14 single adults, all year. One per agent, every 26 days.

    And now, at great expense, 5,200 active-duty soldiers are headed to the border. pic.twitter.com/6KcFyT32Fc

    — Adam Isacson (@adam_wola) October 30, 2018"

After Trump deployed the National Guard to meet the April caravan, Brandon Judd, the head of the Border Patrol union and a vocal Trump supporter, called it “a colossal waste of resources” and said, “We have seen no benefit.” General O’Shaughnessy said on Tuesday that the cost of the deployment is “unknown at this time.” The Bush administration spent $1.2 billion to send 6,000 National Guardsmen to the border between 2006 and 2008, although sending active-duty soldiers could be a bit cheaper. Adam Isacson, the defense oversight director at the Washington Office on Latin America, estimates that the deployment of 5,200 troops will cost about $1.75 million a day. An unnamed Pentagon unofficial estimated to Newsweek that the total cost would be at least $50 million.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis defended the decision to deploy active-duty troops on Wednesday, saying, “We don’t do stunts in this department.” A few hours later, Trump said he might send 10,000 to 15,000 troops. If that happened, there would be roughly 32,000 US soldiers and Border Patrol agents along the border, or about 16 per mile. The Pentagon has notified 7,000 active-duty troops that they could be deployed to the border in addition to the 5,200 soldiers set to arrive by this weekend.

Meyer believes it will become clear that caravan members are not a threat to US security once they begin to reach the border. “These are not large numbers of people seeking to somehow invade the country,” she says, “but a manageable number of people that the US has proven that it’s able to address pretty much every day at the US-Mexico border.”

Link. Original story contains links to further articles and information.

 

[Journeyman]

There's always a silver lining;  this could  be the first time in military history that the troops actually 'will be home by Christmas.'  ;D

 

[Old Sweat]

The cynic in me suggests the troop numbers may be dramatically different from those touted once the mdi-term elections are over. If the caravan continues to shrink, even more so, along with claims that the asylum seekers were afraid to confront the US military.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The mostly women and children in the Peace caravan seem pleasent enough  :nod:

https://youtu.be/sMuN2kXkVDQ

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Believers will believe regardless, but at least Mattis and the US Army are aware of the Posse Comitatus Act. 


My forecast:  the caravan is barely into southern Mexico;  they have about 3000km of very rough, occasionally criminally hostile, real estate to traverse. 

Posse Comitatus Act does not apply - the President can use troops to enforce federal legislation.

3,000 km - on the prairies we call that a 2 day drive.