U.S. fighter pilot Harry Schmidt talks about the friendly fire that ended his...

[Scoobie Newbie]

career.

NBC's Dateline 6 Central this Sunday.

This thread isn't to debate what went on only to make people aware that the interview will be taking place.

 

[jonsey]

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Locked and stickied untill after the debate as we have other threads for this subject.
Will re-open after the interview.
Thanks, CFL

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I missed it but I'm sure I will get filled in here.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Taped it.  Haven't watched it yet.

 

[scm77]

Article about it.

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=5605817d-1bc7-4c80-a9fd-6191f06139c2

 

[Enzo]

Identify that which you are going to fire upon. It's not a difficult concept, or so you would think.

This is only my opinion, and his BS cost dear. I didn't notice him saying anything about responsibility or professionalism. That may be something to take away from his "experience."

 

[MikeM]

I saw a few tidbits, and he hasn't changed yet.

He still cannot say he is personally sorry for dropping that bomb, and will not own up to hsi negligence that night. Instead he said he is sorry that the incident happened. I wasn't expecting anything new before watching it, just another chance for this guy to get some time in the spotlight to show everyone that he's a "victim."

 

[Blackhorse7]

I heard something in that interview that I never heard before.  He described "several men and an artillery piece.

Can anyone tell me what he was mistaking for an artillery piece?  Was there more than just a Company live fire going on?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I believe he thought the Karl G flash was an artillery piece.  I believe it was just the one company.

 

[MJP]

There was only a company out there at the time, IIRC there was only a section up firing at the time of the incident.  CFL is right in stating that he thought that the Carl G was an anti-air piece firing at him.

 

[clasper]

The "artillery piece" was in fact a derelict Soviet tank that the PPCLI were firing on.  The upwards ricochets off the tank were what Schmidt mistook for artillery firing at him.  IIRC, he also claimed that the artillery was tracking him.

http://edmonton.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ed_ppcli20030115
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/

 

[MJP]

Your reading too much into the article I think, well true they would have ricochets into the air, I don't that is what he saw or if he did he immediately turned his attention to the troops on the ground. Look at the targeting video from the F16 you'll see that a bright flash (CG84 firing) and some manlike figures in a line of sorts.  Schmidt was focused on the guys shooting on the ground not their target, I don't even recall the tank coming into view on the video.  I would think that he would have dropped the bomb on the tank "artillery piece"(higher priority target) before hitting some infantry on the ground.

 

[rocky1fac]

The whole story has never been told. I know Harry and I know how he feels, he is torn up inside over the issue. He does not come off that way and I have told him that but you have to understand the otherside of the issue. Errors where made that were not all his and with all the attacks against him he appears to have developed an unfortunate shell around himself as he presents to the public. From personal conversation he feels as bad as any of us would had we killed soldiers through friendly fire.
If the Canadians only knew the whole truth they may have a slight change of anger.

 

[GO!!!]

Right.

So it is the fault of a nameless, faceless bureacracy to which no accountability can be affixed.

Let me ask you this, if you were a C6 gunner, in a hummer, and you asked permission to brew up some shadowy targets beyond the max range of any weapons available to the EN, from your section cdr, and then did so, having not recieved that permission - do you think you would be out of jail yet?

AND, if you did, do you think you would be able to sit on naitonal television and not take accountability for it?

Schmidt is still unable to own up to his sins - He pulled the trigger! It is his fault, and he should have been punished for it - severely.

Fu*k him and his "unfortunate shell". Four families are alot more unfortunate than he.

 

[Armageddon]

I really have to agree with GO!! on this one.  It is the fault of the pilot, it is his responsibility to identify his target.  He fired on a target that, although was a possile perceived threat, he could have turned away from, so as to avoid the threatening area.  And ultimatley he had requested permission but had never gotten an answer.  If you are going to make that sort of decision why ask anyways?  I think that he needs to hurry up and come to grips with the fact it was indeed his fault and that he was the one in err. 

 

[rocky1fac]

I dont disagree, he is at fault, ultimately the final decision was his and he failed in his execusion of his mission after all is said and done. It took me a awhile to respond but here goes.

My point was that I know personally that he feels bad and knows he is responsable and thinks all those thinks you wish you heard on TV. Thought it might be nice for you alll to know he feels bad. I also know he is not a cowboy in the air, he flew on several missions in Yugo and was very good. But a pilot without a FAC to control him can be dangerous weapon around friendly troops.

As for GOes view on the C6 thing well Pilots dont ask for permission from any one in an AWAC to fire on a target. The only person that can call off an attack by a fighter is the lead call sign or the FAC (forward air controler) AWACS are just a support element in the big picture. Now the really important question is were was the FAC? Had a FAC been present on the mission the FAC would have been the only person with the knowledge, information, comms and authority to have stopped it. No FAC no safety net. It will happen again unless a FAC is part of all missions that deploy to hostile areas. FACs in Bosnia stopped this exact type of incident on several occasions.
Next time your deployed and those zoomies are over head with bombs ask the boss were the FACs at. 

 

[Standards]

First of all, no FAC should have been required since he was close enough to the Kandahar airfield that he was in their airspace.  Tarnak Farms range is only a few kms from the airfield, certainly close enough that I heard the bomb detonate from their.

Secondly, if he really feels so bad he could always swallow the barrel of his pistol and put himself out of our misery.

 

[rocky1fac]

Good point but you may not know about the air element.

The provimity of the air field has nil to do with the control of the fighter. The air field would control his air operations if they were to envolve the air field but a fighter ground attack on a search and destroy mission would not even speak to that air field except to transit the field or land. The air field does not control the combat operations.
A FAC at the airfield would not be involved with the activity that fighter was envolved in, such is why it is imperative to have a FAC with the unit. One was designated to be with that unit but one did not deploy why?

Look at it like a FOO or MFC with the Coy if the Coy needs support it would not rely upon a FOO stationed KMs away at a base. The reason this is so vital is that even your response will cause the same error to reoccur, how do we stop it from happening again....simple deploy a FAC with all units when Zoomies are deployed to same mission.
A few points on what a FAC brings to the battle.
1.  LO...take grid of training EX to G3 air and double check it is in AWAC computor..etc
2.  Communications... has only radio and codes to talk directly to fighter
3.  Advise....goes with out saying
4.  Coordination....ensure no range and or combat conflict with adjacent units and stop such from occuring.

I ask again were was the FAC?

 

[Baloo]

And I ask again, why he did not follow proper procedures while in the air?

To h*** with the FAC, he was at fault, pure and simple, and was only a cocky SOB in theatre spoiling for a fight.