• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

U.S. Army to shoot live pigs for medical drill

Blackadder1916

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,141
Points
1,160
U.S. Army to shoot live pigs for medical drill
JAYMES SONG  Associated Press  July 18, 2008 at 5:30 AM EDT

HONOLULU — The U.S. Army says it's critical to saving the lives of wounded soldiers. Animal-rights activists call the training cruel and outdated.

Despite opposition by the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the Army is moving forward with its plan to shoot live pigs and treat their gunshot wounds in a medical trauma exercise Friday at Schofield Barracks for soldiers headed to Iraq.

Maj. Derrick Cheng, spokesman for the 25th Infantry Division, said the training is being conducted under a U.S. Department of Agriculture licence and the careful supervision of veterinarians and a military Animal Care and Use Committee.

“It's to teach Army personnel how to manage critically injured patients within the first few hours of their injury,” Maj. Cheng said.

The soldiers are learning emergency lifesaving skills needed on the battlefield when there are no medics, doctors or facility nearby, he said.

PETA, however, said there are more advanced and humane options available, including high-tech human simulators. In a letter, PETA urged the Army to end all use of animals, “as the overwhelming majority of North American medical schools have already done.”

“Shooting and maiming pigs is outdated as Civil War rifles,” said Kathy Guillermo, director of PETA's Laboratory Investigations Department.

The Norfolk, Va.-based group demanded the exercise be halted after it was notified by a “distraught” soldier from the unit, who disclosed a plan to shoot the animals with M4 carbines and M16 rifles.

“There's absolutely no reason why they have to shoot live pigs,” PETA spokeswoman Holly Beal said.

The bloody exercise, she said, is difficult for soldiers because they sometimes associate the animals with their own pet dogs.

Maj. Cheng said the exercise is conducted in a controlled environment with the pigs anesthetized the entire time. He had “no doubt whatsoever” in the effectiveness of the instruction, which he called the best option available at the base.

“Those alternative methods just can't replicate what the troops are going to face when we use live-tissue training,” he said. “What we're doing is unique to what the soldiers are going to actually experience.”

Maj. Cheng didn't have details about the number of pigs, how they were acquired or the weapons involved in the training.

The soldiers being trained are with the 3rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, which is deploying to Iraq this year.

“We understand (PETA's) concerns and point of view. At the same, the Army is committed to providing the soldiers with the best training possible,” Maj. Cheng said.

Disappointed at the Army's decision, PETA on Thursday instructed its two million members to inundate the Army with calls and e-mails.

PETA believes the U.S. military has conducted similar training at other bases using pigs and goats.

 
As long as they have a BBQ after, I don't see the problem ;)
hide.gif
 
I've been out for almost 20 years, and this is old news to me from open sources - slow news day  :boring:


People for the
Eating of
Tasty
Animals
 
Why not just use the PETA people I think they would rather that over the pigs  ;D  and the training would be more realistic  ;D
 
Except that the medics would have to save them.
 
Don't they realize that a lot of civilian advances in treating trauma is following in the footsteps of military medicine?

 
stegner said:
Don't they realize that a lot of civilian advances in treating trauma is following in the footsteps of military medicine?

The details (from the info I have been able to gather) are unclear as to the type of soldiers taking part in this exercise, but it appears they may be non-medical types.  But it could also be an element of CLS or TCCCC training.
. . . a medical trauma exercise Friday at Schofield Barracks for soldiers headed to Iraq.
. . .
“It's to teach Army personnel how to manage critically injured patients within the first few hours of their injury,” Maj. Cheng said.

The soldiers are learning emergency lifesaving skills needed on the battlefield when there are no medics, doctors or facility nearby, he said.

I am not up to date on all the specifics of the US Army's CLS (or TCCCC) program, but back in the dark ages when I attended  C4 at Camp Bullis and did the goat lab, it was somewhat self-evident that significant prior medical training was necessary to make the exercise useful; a good portion of the time in the animal lab is to validate previously (even if recently) learned skills. If the intent of the exercise to be conducted in Hawaii is to simply expose "all" deploying soldiers to a first aid scenario in which the "patient" is bleeding then it usefulness may be questionable.

 
Quick clot and its competitors work best with real flowing blood, pigs and goats are better to practise on than a screaming live human.  Unless PETA has some volunteers who promise not to scream while the troops practise on them.
 
I suppose if civil rights people, lawyers and medical ethicists would agree that using live human volunteers or voluntolds was fine, then the animals could then be spared for movement straight to the abatoirs and BBQ pits of Hawaii.  However, since the laws of our lands kind of prohibit that sort of thing, it'll have to carry on as is for now - and continue to save human lives in the process.

MM
 
Would it be more realistic to inflict wounds using 7.62x39 as opposed to 5.56x45, due to different ballistics, size of the would, and a bullet that is designed to "tumble"?

I do realize we are supposed to administer first aid on our wounded enemy, but I'm just saying, if they're gonna go to the extend of using live animals to practice on, why not go as far as to use a round that is more likely to be used against us.

Or is the difference in tissue damage too little to be relevant..?

 
Hmmm, this is a win-win situation

If the Treatment works the pig Lives and the soldiers learn valuable techniques to keep buddies alive

If it doesnt, tasty bacon for all with the added benefit of annoying the PETA Baboons
 
Hmmm, this is a win-win situation

If the Treatment works the pig Lives and the soldiers learn valuable techniques to keep buddies alive

If it doesnt, tasty bacon for all with the added benefit of annoying the PETA Baboons

+1
 
This is nothing new.  The use of live pigs for this sort of training has been going on for years - WW1.

The pigs are anaesthetised first.  The objective is medical research / training not torturing pigs.
 
This would be a perfect way to also deal with the wild boar problem in the southern states.  Why not mix the two together?  ;D
 
Maybe this could be the plot of the Simpson's 'Spider Pig 2' - Spider Pig infiltrates a medical training exercise and attempts to save the pigs.  Homer will BBQ him and many of his friends while chugging a couple of cases of Duff beers.
 
This is very ethically easy:

1) Are pigs endangered? Nope

2) Do pigs eat humans? Yes, they do if they can.

3) Do experienced medical techs with theatre experience think this will help save human lives? It appears so.

So, let the exercise and BBQs begin!

It should be done away from prying eyes...I remember an incident at a regiment in Toronto where some rabbits were the subject of much controversy and a number of investigations.
 
North Star said:
It should be done away from prying eyes...I remember an incident at a regiment in Toronto where some rabbits were the subject of much controversy and a number of investigations.

Oh... how can we forget that investigation....  ;)  Definitely away from prying eyes!!!
 
Back
Top