• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

To Erradicate or Regulate Afghan Opium.

Scoobie Newbie

Army.ca Legend
Inactive
Reaction score
1
Points
410
http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20060627%2fafghanistan_report_060628&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True

Futile American policies aimed at eradicating the opium poppy crop in southern Afghanistan are costing the lives of both locals and Canadian soldiers, a think-tank charged Wednesday.


CTV.ca News Staff

"Canadian troops have been handed an impossible mission which can only lead to significant casualties," says the report by the policy think-thank.

"Until Canada fundamentally re-evaluates its approach and creates its own new strategy for its presence in Kandahar, with a clear split from the failed US policies there, the Canadian mission in Afghanistan is blindly following a path that will lead to senseless military and civilian casualties."

The policy group criticized the efforts of the Canadian military, including the Provincial Reconstruction Team in Kandahar City to help rebuild the economy.

The report's author denounced American operations such as the poppy eradication campaign, saying they have made the situation worse by driving rural formers into extreme poverty, increasing local hostility and boosting support for the Taliban.

"The current approach of not only the afghan government but also the international forces, who have a supporting role in that, is to eradicate these poppies, which means you're taking away the livelihoods of the local population," Senlis Council spokesperson Jorrit Kamminga told CTV's Canada AM.

"And without the consent of the local population, you can never create stability. That's our main point of criticism," he said.

Opium poppies, which do not require irrigation in the drought-stricken region, are a cornerstone of the local economy.

The drug harvest brings in 10 times as much money as a crop of wheat.

Production of opium, which is the main ingredient for heroin, has soared since the fall of the Taliban government in 2001.

But the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime released a report earlier this week indicating the area under opium poppy cultivation in Afghanistan decreased for the first time since 2001.

Still, the UN watchdog pointed out that the war-torn country accounts for 89 per cent of the worldwide production of opium.

Though Canadian troops aren't actively involved in poppy eradication, the report says Afghan farmers see them as complicit in the American-backed campaign.

The policy group also accused the Canadian military of accidentally killing innocent civilians during security raids.

"The deaths of innocent Kandahar civilians at the hands of the Canadian military has come to symbolize to the local population Canadian indifference to the Afghan people and to symbolize the failing mission in southern Afghanistan," the policy group says.

The report's authors offered a list of recommendations aimed at making progress in Afghanistan:

Provide immediate financial aid for people living in extreme poverty.

Meet more regularly with community leaders to better grasp how international policies are affecting them.

Grant a grace period to allow farmers to continue cultivating poppies until alternative crops are developed.

Allow farmers to grow poppies for medicines such as morphine and codeine.

Balance use of military force with economic development projects.

The report was harshly received by military officials in Afghanistan.

"It is completely off. This report -- from what I've read -- tries to place the blame for the insurgency on those who are here to help Afghans instead of the insurgents," said Lt.-Col. Ian Hope, commander of the Patricia's battle group in Kandahar.

Hope called the report a subjective political document immersed in an anti-American sentiment.

"I think the people who wrote this report are jealous of the Canadian efforts here. It makes me angry because it trivializes the efforts of soldiers on the ground who are doing the right thing every day," he said.

 
So what do we know about the Senlis Counsel?  I like the part about:


Lt. Col. Ian Hope, commander of the Princess Patricia's battle group in Kandahar, scoffed at the report.
He called it a subjective political document that is steeped in anti-Americanism and belittles the service of Canadian soldiers in the field.
Hope said that while there are some minor problems with the poppy eradication programs in Kandahar, the campaign is having anywhere near the negative impact set out in the report.
"I think the people who wrote this report are jealous of the Canadian efforts here. It makes me angry because it trivializes the efforts of soldiers on the ground who are doing the right thing every day," he said. 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/28062006/2/world-u-s-policy-afghan-mission-costing-canadian-lives-think.html

Yeah, letting the opium drug lords continue business as usual until there is an elaborate irrigation system is a stellar idea.  How often can we predict that would be blown up after it was in place? 
Boy, the cry baby Lieberals just can't let it go, can they? 


 
I'm not the biggest Ian Hope fan -- but I agree with his comments on this one 110%

The "report" is a true piece of shit.

 
You would think with a name like "Think Tank" they might put some real thought into what they write....

Seriously though they can espouse and lament all they want on what were doing wrong but until they grow a spine and start actually helping I think we can just ignore them.
 
HitorMiss said:
Seriously though they can espouse and lament all they want on what were doing wrong but until they grow a spine and start actually helping I think we can just ignore them.

No, I don't think we can afford to just ignore them. That is precisely how they have come to be listened to by so many, because in the past we dismissed the wackos. There is a large segment of the population out there that will absorb their rhetoric as gospel, if there is NO alternate voice or the Waco's are not confronted. (want an example?  Look how many people still believe the Liberals were doing everything right!)
 
Hi all...I'm a new member but an old soldier currently deployed in Kabul.  Readers of the Senlis report should be aware that the organization is an advocacy group for the legalization of the poppy crop in Afghanistan.  Every single thing that they do, every article or paper that they write is directed to discrediting the Government of Afghanistan and the international effort to control poppy cultivation.  A member of my team and I have analysed some of their previous efforts and have found them to be universally slanted, biased and lacking in any research credibility. 

In recent months the Government in Kabul has threatened to expel them from the country simply because as an "NGO" they contribute nothing to making the lives of Afghans better.  Instead, they have a single tune to beat on their drum. That tune is opposed to Afghan national interests and the will of the international community as expressed in the UN Security Council "endorsed" AFGHANISTAN COMPACT.  The Compact is the deal between the international community and Afghanistan and it's fairly specific about the need to replace poppy with legitimate crops.  Senlis, of course, has its own agenda.  I'm amazed (but not surprised) that the media seems to have swallowed the report whole without even checking out Senlis' agenda!

Cheers
 
I am certain that the Btl Gp in Qandahar is doing the absolute best job possible under the circumstances.  Suggestions were made in interviews from Afghanistan that Senlis council personnel had not visited the BG AO.  I would suggest that the Senlis Council therefore is unlikely to be able to substantiate their comments with anything other than second hand observation at best and hearsay at worst.

The Senlis Council made a number of recommendations as posted above....

The report's authors offered a list of recommendations aimed at making progress in Afghanistan:

Provide immediate financial aid for people living in extreme poverty.

Meet more regularly with community leaders to better grasp how international policies are affecting them.

Grant a grace period to allow farmers to continue cultivating poppies until alternative crops are developed.

Allow farmers to grow poppies for medicines such as morphine and codeine.

Balance use of military force with economic development projects.

I personally find it difficult to disagree with these recommendations.  From my reading of progressive counterinsurgency theory and nation-building doctrine, the military component must be the smallest of the considerations to defeating insurgency.  Economic, rule of law, governmental, judicial, etc must all be considered and should have greater emphasis placed on them than on the military component.  Very little or no weight should be placed on body counts.  The military should create security, and a foreign military should operate in support of local militaries if at all possible.  That being said, if we expect to have the same security success that we achieved in Bosnia or Kosovo (?) we should likely have similar military/civilian ratios.  We are nowhere near those numbers in Afghanistan as we achieved in Bosnia or Kosovo.

I don't agree with the Senlis Council conclusions, but I can't disagree with the recommendations as stated above.  If the West wants to conduct opium eradication, then they should focus on the Western junkies sticking heroin in their veins and the high level organized criminal elements who process and traffic the opium... not the farmer. 

The West should be spending far more money than is currently being spent in Afghanistan.  Throw money at the problem, crank up the reconstruction effort, and expect that some of the money will be wasted.  Buy the opium from the farmer.  Initial estimates of cash required in 2002 were never met, and the international community was slow (as usual) in following through on their promises.  To paraphrase Wm S. Lind... Cash is the most important supporting arm of Fourth Generation Warfare.

Some random thoughts... I'm sure I will hear that all we have to do  "is kill them all and let God sort them out."  Thanks for that in advance.
 
PM dismisses critique of Afghanistan mission
Last Updated Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:04:21 EDT
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/06/28/afghanistan-canada.html
 
Harper dismissed the report Wednesday from the Paris-based Senlis Council

I think this just explained the whole direction their coming from. Paris based think tank is about on par with another oxymoron from there, French Resistance.

 
I'm going to stick my 2 cents in here.....past history has shown that prohibition doesn't work and past history has shown that crop eradication doesn't work, as a matter of fact it only drives the farmers into deeper poverty and engenders hostility by the local population..and haveing the local Afghan population pi**ed-off at our troops would be a really really bad thing.....so i would have to say that i would prefer to see our troops stay as far away from the poppy eradication program as possible and stick to killing the bad guys and doing constructive humanitarian work.
Cheers
Gene
 
Why eradicate it? Turn it into a legitimite crop. Cooperatives monitored and controlled, with the product being sold to the major international drug companies at set prices. Everyone wins. Security may be a pain, but certainly no worse than now. It must be happening somewhere right now for the current supply of morphine, etc. Follow and modify that example.
 
Since poppies are a secondary concern compared to Taliban and A-Q why not just buy the poppy crop from the farmers in the meantime and use it to make legal medicines? Obviously much cheaper than firepower and wins the hearts and minds. Alot of these bozos will defect for a little cash.

Damn beat me to it recce
 
recceguy said:
Why eradicate it? Turn it into a legitimite crop. Cooperatives monitored and controlled, with the product being sold to the major international drug companies at set prices. Everyone wins. Security may be a pain, but certainly no worse than now. It must be happening somewhere right now for the current supply of morphine, etc. Follow and modify that example.

Turkey did it 30 years ago, and is presently the major supplier of medical morphine
 
Nemo888 said:
Alot of these bozos will defect for a little cash.

A lot of these 'bozos' are simply trying to survive and provide for their families. No need to demean them for that.
 
Why bozo’s?
They grow the world’s most physically addictive drug for a living. They know what its for. The drug trade has been buying arms for militant Muslims in Afghanistan since the Russians. Back then they were so proud of it they would stamp their hashish FOA Freedom of Afghanistan. The probability that they are narcoterrorists is very high.
 
The farmers that do the growing are just that....farmers who are growing a crop so they can buy food,pay the rent,clothe their kids and pay their school fees....hardly narco-terrorists.
 
You've obviously never been in a position where one US dollar is all you have to take care of your family for a week. Go ahead and blame the go betweens and end users, the farmer, while maybe not blameless, at least has an excuse. Try wrap your head around the situation before you beak off. I'd tell you to spend some time in their shoes, but they likely don't have any.
 
How big a deal is Opium in Afghanistan ? I once read it's 50% of the national product. It's that true or it's highly exaggerated ? Anyone knows ?

Because if it's really big banning it is likely to cause problems. Especially if you can't provide any replacement.
 
It is a major crop (somewhere around 60-70% of GDP), but until you secure the area, identify and build the needs to provide an alternative, there is little you are going to accomplish by destroying this years crop....(see Marjuana grow ops in Canada, and WE HAVE ALTERNATIVES).  i don't know if you will ever totally eradicate it.
 
For anyone wanting to study the source material....

http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/013_publication

Canada in Kandahar: No Peace to Keep - A Case Study of the Military Coalitions in Southern Afghanistan

New Field Report
June 2006

Canadian troops and Afghan civilians are paying with their lives for Canada's adherence to the US government's failing military and counter-narcotics policies in Kandahar. The US-led counter-terrorist operations and militaristic poppy eradication strategies have triggered a new war with the Taliban and other insurgent groups, and are causing countless civilian deaths.

To a large extent, it can be said that Operation Enduring Freedom and the related militaristic counter-narcotics policies are significant contributors to the current state of war in Kandahar and the other southern provinces.

Canada and the international community continue to unquestioningly accept America's fundamentally flawed policy approach in southern Afghanistan, thereby jeopardising the success of military operations in the region and the stabilisation, reconstruction and development mission objectives.

A little more on who these guys are:
http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/about_us
The Senlis Council is an international security and development policy think tank, established by The Network of European Foundations. One of the key projects of the Council is the Drug Policy Advisory Forum - a programme dedicated to evaluating the effectiveness of the current global drug policy. By convening politicians, high profile academics, independent experts and Non-Governmental Organisations, The Senlis Council aims to work as the dialogue partner with senior policy-makers at national and international levels in order to foster high-level exchanges and new ideas on bridging security and development.

 
Back
Top