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The US Presidency 2018

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Altair said:
it really began under Obama with his pivot to Asia.

It is accelerating under the current president
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I would argue that US power reached its zenith in the 1950s ... just as British power peaked in about 1835+/- and Roman power reached maximum circa 100AD, when Trajan was emperor. The Roman and British empires endured for decades and centuries after they 'peaked' but the conditions for (relative) decline were already there: the growing intellectual and commercial power of e.g. America and Germany in the 1830s (Yale University awarded the first ever doctorate in America in 1861, Bayer and BASF were founded in Germany in the 1860s but the intellectual movement that created modern America and Germany began in the 18th century and came to full 'flower' in about the 1830s.

America will remain a mighty creative, commercial and military power for another couple of generations, at least, but its relative power began to decline in, say, the mid to late 1950s. First Russia, then Japan and Western Europe (the EEC) and now China and soon India have all moved into 9and in Russia's case out of) the top tier of economic and/or military powers which was, for a while, the sole domain of the USA.

America isn't finished but it has passed it's 'best before' date ... see e.g. Paul Kennedy (Rise and Fall of the Great Powers) and extrapolate back 2,500 years before 1500.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
I would argue that US power reached its zenith in the 1950s ... just as British power peaked in about 1835+/- and Roman power reached maximum circa 100AD, when Trajan was emperor. The Roman and British empires endured for decades and centuries after they 'peaked' but the conditions for (relative) decline were already there: the growing intellectual and commercial power of e.g. America and Germany in the 1830s (Yale University awarded the first ever doctorate in America in 1861, Bayer and BASF were founded in Germany in the 1860s but the intellectual movement that created modern America and Germany began in the 18th century and came to full 'flower' in about the 1830s.

America will remain a mighty creative, commercial and military power for another couple of generations, at least, but its relative power began to decline in, say, the mid to late 1950s. First Russia, then Japan and Western Europe (the EEC) and now China and soon India have all moved into 9and in Russia's case out of) the top tier of economic and/or military powers which was, for a while, the sole domain of the USA.

America isn't finished but it has passed it's 'best before' date ... see e.g. Paul Kennedy (Rise and Fall of the Great Powers) and extrapolate back 2,500 years before 1500.
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It is debatable but I would argue that a megalomaniac leader can accelerate or guarantee that fall.  One only has to look at Commodus (not quite a 100 years after Trajan and no not the movie version).  He inherited an empire from a solid line of rulers and left it a mess because of his cult of personality.
 
[quote author=recceguy]

That is the reason Trump got elected in the first place. People are tired of these arseholes and their games. Games that accomplish nothing, cost millions and stall government action.

[/quote]

Came across this post on Facebook so there's a small possibility it may not all be accurate  ;D
Some of it sounds accurate IIRC, I thought you might appreciate the read.

1.The DNC rigs the Democratic Primary Election election against Bernie Sanders so Hillary Clinton can win the nomination.
2.Obama administration starts to request surveillance on Trump, his family, his transition team and anyone else associated with him.
3.Donna Brazil gives Hillary Clinton the questions to a debate.
4. The DNC pays Christopher Steele to come up with a smear dossier about Trump.
5. The mainstream media releases a taped conversation about Trump talking about grabbing a womans crotch.

After all this Trump still wins the election.

6. Obama orders an investigation into Russia meddling with the elections.
7. Obama changes executive order 12333 to allow more agencies to have access to the surveillance data.
8. The Democratic Party comes up with a scandal that Trump colluded with Russia with no evidence or proof.
9.Main stream media run with the claim.
10. Obama hold overs start unmasking Trump's transition team and staff members then releases the classified information TO the mainstream media.

Why? Because the DNC and Obama administration colluded with the intelligence community to thwart Trumps campaign to get elected as president.

All the Russian collusion stuff is an attempt to cover up the fact that the Obama administration, the intelligence community, the DNC and the mainstream media used US surveillance as a political tool to try and get Hillary Clinton elected president.
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Except for the collusion theory, and some over-bold statements (eg. (2) makes it sound like everyone under the sun in Trump's corner was under surveillance, which is not at all true; (4) overstates the connection from the DNC to Steele - the former provided money, via a law firm, to pay Fusion GPS, which hired Steele), the broad outline is correct.  (Details and objectivity matter if the events are to be discussed productively, and the objective view is damaging enough.)

It doesn't take a theory of collusion - certainly not widespread collusion - to explain "why".  Everything can more simply be attributed to the reactions of unconnected people and groups to a sequence of events throughout and after the 2016 presidential election - basically, a variation of "invisible hand" (spontaneous order).
 
Brihard said:
I don't know if over 200 charges laid against 35 people, five already resulting in guilty please can be called 'nothing', nor 'ridiculous'. And Mueller is now seeking immunity for five previously unnamed witnesses in the Manafort trial- five more individuals who would not testify for fear of self incrimination. As major investigations go, this one is very, very productive- Infanteer nicely showed how this is the case.

Frankly I think it's more a matter of you really don't like what is happening because of your own very heavily hard right bias that we have all become accustomed to over the years here.
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And you are just plain wrong, absolutely and 100%. My post was multi party, all politicians. I said nothing about any investigations or specifics. I made a general comment on the state of politics....everywhere. I simply used Trump's election as a poigniant, current and relatable example. But thanks for jumping in to impinge me anyway. I won't consider it a personal attack though, even if that is what it is. That would just get messy.

Beside, you of all people should know charged does not equal quilty. People are charged all the time. Not all are convicted. Oh wait, I see the problem. Like those that illegally broke into homes and closets to confiscate law abiding owners of their property. How's that law suit going? https://globalnews.ca/news/1827143/class-action-lawsuit-launched-against-high-river-rcmp-over-gun-seizures/

Just like you, above. Guilty until..... what? We ruin you? Bankrupt you? Destroy your life? Then we'll cut you loose?

Hell of a way to restart a dialogue Bri.

You've done some great things that I admire you for. This, not so much.

But I do admire your stance that Justice and Government are never wrong, corrupt or decietful.

You shouldv'e stopped at your first para.


modified to reflect the rules - with a tip-o-the hat to JM :whistle:

 
recceguy said:
You shouldv'e stopped at your first para, especially as a Mod.
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Gee, and how many times has it been posted that 'Mods are entitled to their opinions and can post the same as any other site member'?  :pop:

[It's a rhetorical question]




 
I'm just going to leave this here.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

<snip>As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.

“I understand your message about space,” replied Medvedev, who will hand over the presidency to Putin in May.

“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term.

“I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure.

The exchange, parts of it inaudible, was monitored by a White House pool of television journalists as well as Russian reporters listening live from their press center.

The audible portions of the conversation were captured on video:</snip>

https://www.facebook.com/actforamerica/videos/10155329096911364/

 
I'll have to go and find it, saw it last night and didn't save it. Apparently, many of the Russians charged by Mueller, were indicted for stuff in 2014 and before the election. Obama's watch.




spelling
 
recceguy said:
I'll have to go and find it, saw it last night and didn't save it. Apparently, many of the Russians charged by Mueller, were indicted for stuff in 2014 and before the election. Obama's watch.




spelling
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-russia-election-hacking-democrats-hillary-clinton-robert-mueller-emails-2016-a8446286.html%3famp

A dozen Russian intelligence officials have been charged with allegedly hacking and leaking emails of senior Democrats during the 2016 US presidential campaign, the Department of Justice (DoJ) has announced.

The 11-count indictment includes charges of conspiracy by the Russian intelligence officials against the United States, money laundering and attempts to break into state boards of elections and other government agencies.
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If you say so.
 
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/07/breaking-trump-invites-vladimir-putin-to-washington-dc/

This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.

President Donald Trump has invited Russian President Vladimir Putin to Washington, D.C., this fall.

The White House announced Thursday that Trump asked National Security Advisor John Bolton to invite Putin to Washington, D.C.

White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said Thursday that discussions about the visit are already underway.

Sarah Sanders@PressSec

In Helsinki, @POTUS agreed to ongoing working level dialogue between the two security council staffs. President Trump asked @Ambjohnbolton to invite President Putin to Washington in the fall and those discussions are already underway.

Trump and Putin met earlier this week for a summit in Helsinki, Finland, where the two had a private meeting that lasted for more than two hours, and then held a bilateral meeting with other officials and a joint press conference.

Both leaders characterized the meeting as successful, and Trump has said that having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing for the United States.

The President earlier Thursday had tweeted about a second summit with Putin.

“The Summit with Russia was a great success, except with the real enemy of the people, the Fake News Media. I look forward to our second meeting so that we can start implementing some of the many things discussed, including stopping terrorism, security for Israel, nuclear … proliferation, cyber attacks, trade, Ukraine, Middle East peace, North Korea and more. There are many answers, some easy and some hard, to these problems… but they can ALL be solved,” Trump tweeted.

Although Trump and Putin met last year at the G20 summit and the APEC summit, the Helsinki summit was the first dedicated to the relationship of the two nuclear powers.

President Trump was satisfied with the outcome of the summit and the chance to remedy the deteriorated relationship with Russia.

He expressed a desire to achieve peace instead of politics, and emphasized the positive impact the relationship would have on the world.

“The meeting between President Putin and myself was a great success, except in the Fake News Media,” Trump had tweeted.

The President’s criticisms of the media come amid backlash for his comments at a joint press conference with Putin in Helsinki following their private meeting and bilateral meeting.

President Trump disagreed with the findings of U.S. intelligence analyses that ultimately led to the indictment of 12 Russian officials for allegedly meddling in the 2016 Presidential election.

Trump also criticized the credibility of U.S. intelligence agencies, leading many to conclude that he publicly sided with Russia over the United States.

Many Democrat and Republican members of Congress spoke out about Trump’s comments. Some criticized him directly for his words, while others criticized Russia.

However, Trump clarified some of his remarks the following day, saying that he misspoke in Helsinki.

“I have full faith and support for America’s intelligence agencies,” he said, adding that he accepted the conclusions by U.S. intelligence agencies.

On Thursday, Trump also posted a video montage in which several 2017 press conference clips feature him admitting that Russia was responsible for election meddling.

The video serves as a counter to continued media reports claiming Trump refuses to denounce Russia.

A recent Axios and SurveyMonkey poll revealed that 79 percent of Republicans were supportive of President Trump’s performance at the summit.

That number increased from 71 percent reported by an earlier Reuters and Ipsos poll. This may indicate increased support for the President after he clarified his position on Russian meddling.

It is unclear whether or not a second meeting between Trump and Putin is in the works.

However, it would be consistent with ongoing discussions with Russia to improve relations, as driven by Trump.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recently met with his Russian counterpart, and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is reportedly open to meeting with his counterpart.
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I guess not everyone is concerned as some.

"He expressed a desire to achieve peace instead of politics, and emphasized the positive impact the relationship would have on the world."

That is a worthy, considerate and honourable goal. He should be commended.




 
I guess this is just McCarthyism Part 2, except its run by the Democrats this time. I'm also super surprised that people aren't talking about how terrible the Russian Intelligence folks are or how dumb the American voting population is. Either they're so stupid they fell for internet memes and trolls and voted for Trump, or that the Russian GRU was so terrible at their jobs they allowed Clinton to win the popular vote.

There wasn't even enough evidence for judicial recounts. 5 states had filings: Florida had no legal basis for recount, Michigan gave Clinton 102 extra votes prior to recounts being stopped as Stein lost her challenge, Nevada had no change (recount requested by third party candidate), Pennsylvania had no legal basis for recount, and Wisconsin's recount showed absolutely 0 evidence of election machine tampering.

I'm still waiting for the smoking gun that links Trump to requesting election tampering. Probably because its not there, and realistically all of this is a show for the aggrieved Democrats who couldn't stand seeing Clinton lose.
 
Leftist Mob Hurls Feces At Pro-Trump Kosher Coffee Shop

-"An anti-immigrant Trump loving gentryfier"

A pro-Trump coffee shop in L.A.'s Boyle Heights took a barrage of feces being hurled at it by protesters who say the owner's views do not represent the rapidly gentrifying neighborhood.

According to CBS local, the protestors went as far to shut down the grand opening of the Asher Caffe & Lounge over the owner's support of Trump's immigration policies. Though traditionally Jewish, the neighborhood of Boyle Heights has since become predominantly Latino.
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https://www.dailywire.com/news/33300/leftist-mob-hurls-feces-pro-trump-kosher-coffee-paul-bois?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro


Wtf is wrong with these people. They need to have some Russian standard vodka and chill out.
 
recceguy said:
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/07/breaking-trump-invites-vladimir-putin-to-washington-dc/

I guess not everyone is concerned as some.

"He expressed a desire to achieve peace instead of politics, and emphasized the positive impact the relationship would have on the world."

That is a worthy, considerate and honourable goal. He should be commended.
Click to expand...

So was this guy. For a little while.

6458473.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time

:cheers:
 
The pursuit of peace through dialogue should be abandoned, simply because Neville Chamberlain was lied to?

I don't agree. You keep trying till one side will no longer co-operate.

It is still an honourable and compassionate pursuit worth trying every time.

He may end up another Chamberlain, but he can't be faulted for trying.

 
recceguy said:
The pursuit of peace through dialogue should be abandoned, simply because Neville Chamberlain was lied to?

I don't agree. You keep trying till one side will no longer co-operate.

It is still an honourable and compassionate pursuit worth trying every time.

He may end up another Chamberlain, but he can't be faulted for trying.
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Let's put it this way. Russia was found trying to destabilize American democracy through their cyber assaults. Those activities continue.

Per DNI Dan Coates:

Every day, foreign actors — the worst offenders being Russia, China, Iran and North Korea — are penetrating our digital infrastructure and conducting a range of cyber intrusions and attacks against targets in the United States. The targets range from U.S. businesses to the federal government (including our military), to state and local governments, to academic and financial institutions and elements of our critical infrastructure — just to name a few. The attacks come in different forms. Some are tailored to achieve very tactical goals while others are implemented for strategic purpose, including the possibility of a crippling cyberattack against our critical infrastructure.

All of these disparate efforts share a common purpose: to exploit America's openness in order to undermine our long-term competitive advantage.

In regards to the state actions, Russia has been the most aggressive foreign actor — no question. And they continue their efforts to undermine our democracy. In regards to the upcoming midterm elections, I think there may have been some confusion between what we are seeing now compared to what we saw in 2016. As the Department of Homeland Security noted, we are not yet seeing the kind of electoral interference in specific states and voter databases that we experienced in 2016. However, we fully realize that we are just one click of the keyboard away from a similar situation repeating itself. Therefore, and moreover, we are seeing aggressive attempts to manipulate social media and to spread propaganda focused on hot-button issues that are intended to exacerbate socio-political divisions. Despite public statements by the Kremlin to the contrary, we continue to see individuals affiliated with the St. Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency creating new social media accounts, masquerading as Americans, and then using these accounts to draw attention to divisive issues.
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https://www.npr.org/2018/07/18/630164914/transcript-dan-coats-warns-of-continuing-russian-cyberattacks

You do not deal with a situation like that by being a sycophant. You deal with it by drawing a line in the sand and saying we won't treat with you until all these activities come to a full stop.

Trump's overtures, for whatever reason he is making them, are the worst form of appeasement. Not only does it show the Russians that their activities have worked but, in large part, it also shows them that the White House won't take any concrete steps to oppose any future interference. Trump's entire approach to this very serious issue will do nothing less than embolden Putin to continue these activities both in the US and other western democracies.

To use your position: it is clear that the Russians have not been cooperating and are continuing to not cooperate. They are simply denying when they've been caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

[cheers]
 
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