The Politics of Yellow Ribbons - MERGED

[medaid]

why are you people so pissed? As I said, these ribbons don't affect impartiality whatsoever, they promote Canadian values. Is it so crazy to place a sign that our government supports canadian involvement in Afghanistan, made as an expression of Canadian values? Now for the vets, they're not forgotten, we honor them on the Remembrance day, but it doesn't mean that we can't support the soldiers that are currently fighting. I don't see anything wrong with it.

ummm sorry mzona, I'm having a hard time following your train of thought here. Maybe you can clear it up for me...

But the one thing I DO have a problem with, is that you seem to share the same ideas and thoughts as the majority of Canadian citizens. Your comment about Veterans peeved me. Greatly.

WE as citizens of Canada should never honour our veterans on Remembrance Day. We should honour them ALWAYS. Having one day dedicated to them is nothing in my point of view. It is worthless, because most Canadians have no clue what Remembrance Day is all about. I can't really see the connection between Remembrance Day and those who currently serve and fight either... maybe you could clear that up too.

One last thing. You PROUDLY displayed your service before in another thread, but I noticed that you still haven't filled out your profile. It kind of irks me to read comments from people who boasts their service but is unwilling to put it in the open...

 

[the 48th regulator]

WE as citizens of Canada should never honour our veterans on Remembrance Day. We should honour them ALWAYS. Having one day dedicated to them is nothing in my point of view. It is worthless, because most Canadians have no clue what Remembrance Day is all about. I can't really see the connection between Remembrance Day and those who currently serve and fight either... maybe you could clear that up too.

Although I sympathize with your feelings, I disagree.  That statement would be akin to keeping our flags at half mast for every Canadian that has fallen, which has been debated ad nausea, but would never show our strength to the enemy.  Maybe if November 11th were supported day a bit more, Remembrance would have a better connection to Afghanistan.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42677.0.html

Is a link I started, which maybe a good place to start.

dileas

tess

 

[Danjanou]

I dont think the signatures will be of any value unless you are a resident of Toronto?

Even then I doubt they will have much impact. However I signed it and pointed out I both live and work in TO and am a former soldier.

 

[mzona]

ummm sorry mzona, I'm having a hard time following your train of thought here. Maybe you can clear it up for me...

But the one thing I DO have a problem with, is that you seem to share the same ideas and thoughts as the majority of Canadian citizens. Your comment about Veterans peeved me. Greatly.

WE as citizens of Canada should never honour our veterans on Remembrance Day. We should honour them ALWAYS. Having one day dedicated to them is nothing in my point of view. It is worthless, because most Canadians have no clue what Remembrance Day is all about. I can't really see the connection between Remembrance Day and those who currently serve and fight either... maybe you could clear that up too.

One last thing. You PROUDLY displayed your service before in another thread, but I noticed that you still haven't filled out your profile. It kind of irks me to read comments from people who boasts their service but is unwilling to put it in the open...

Med Tech
Well then if we should ALWAYS honor our veterans, shouldn't we honor them on Remembrance day too? It seems like attacking words, bot that's exactly what you do. YES, you're right, we should honor our veterans every day, my dad and gramps were both military you know. Now if you go back and reread my post I invite you to quote me the part where I calim there was a connection between Afghanistan and Remembrance day. If I do then sorry, it was a mistake.

Now I've never proudly displayed anything. To quote myself, I said about my service "it's nothing compared to what most of you guys have been through". And even though I didn't fill out a profile, I DID give a summary description of it. Now of course you can confirm everything I say with a member of staff who keep logs of deleted posts, but I'm kinda surprised you haven't read it yourself. Or maybe you have and post this as a personal attack.

All right, for the last time,
I'm Pte Babenko, a former member of Comm Res, who only did basic courses and a class B, but enjoyed his stay in the army a lot all the same. I've also been in the air cadets prior to reserves.

Does it still irk you?

EDIT: BTW, Med Tech, your profile doesn't give us lots of info either, huh. How so?

 

[niner domestic]

The City has voted unanimously to keep the magnet ON the city vehicles. 

Yay!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070620/decals_vote_070620/20070620?hub=TopStories

 

[Danjanou]

Score one for the good guys. Part of me is pleasantly surprised by this, part remains cynical. They only did this because of the stink being raised.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070620/decals_vote_070620/20070620?hub=Canada

Reprinted here with the usual caveats

Updated Wed. Jun. 20 2007 2:48 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Toronto councillors voted unanimously on Wednesday to extend the use of 'Support Our Troops' decals on fire and emergency medical service vehicles.

Facing a potential backlash, city council voted the ribbons will stay on all emergency vehicles until the war in Afghanistan is over.
Earlier this week, emergency services were told the magnetic ribbons must be removed from all city-owned vehicles by Sept. 4.
Coun. Frances Nunziata made a motion on Tuesday that council extend the use of the decals.

"Leave things the way they are. Leave the ribbons," Nunziata told reporters.

She said she brought the motion forward after receiving calls from concerned veterans.

Some speculate the decision to remove the ribbons came about because proper protocol to post the decals on city-owned vehicles was not followed.

Others say city council does not want the vehicles to appear supportive of the controversial war in Afghanistan.
However, city officials said Tuesday that the decal campaign was only ever intended to last for one year.

Public relations staff, Toronto EMS Chief Bruce Farr and Fire Chief Bill Stewart held an hour-long meeting on the issue.
After the meeting, Farr and Stewart said the campaign was following a pre-determined schedule.

"That is part of our maintenance rotation stating in September this year. It's our intention to peel the stickers off," Farr said.
Stewart said there was no city hall order to have the stickers removed.

Mayor David Miller has said that while emergency crews should continue to support Canadian troops, one year was sufficient for the decal program.

"It's controversial on both sides. There are people who see it as support for the troops and there are people who see it as support for war," Miller said.

EMS paid about $3,000 from taxpayer funds for the decals, while the fire department used roughly the same amount from union funds.
The decals are currently on 170 fire trucks, 147 ambulances and 25 EMS cars and SUVs.

Coun. Janet Davis told the Toronto Star she supports Canada's troops, but opposed the use of the decals.

"I don't think we should be using city facilities or vehicles for promoting political messages about matters that fall outside the city's jurisdiction, particularly if they're contentious," she said.

Edit: dammit someone is faster at posting than me :-[

 

[the 48th regulator]

Coun. Janet Davis told the Toronto Star she supports Canada's troops, but opposed the use of the decals.

"I don't think we should be using city facilities or vehicles for promoting political messages about matters that fall outside the city's jurisdiction, particularly if they're contentious," she said.

Can they get it into their thick skulls, that this support is in no way political??  We serve any party that is in power.

Sweet Mother of God.

dileas

tess

 

[Old Sweat]

I just received an email from Access Toronto advising me that at the mayor's recommendation, Toronto council has unanimously endorsed the extension of the Support Our Troops ribbon campaign.

This is still unconfirmed and I note it refers to ribbons, not decals. Look to your front.

 

[pjocsak]

Courtesy of the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070620.wtroopdec0620/BNStory/Front

Toronto votes to keep troop decals

Canadian Press

June 20, 2007 at 2:50 PM EDT

TORONTO — Decals on emergency vehicles showing support for Canada's troops will remain on Toronto's emergency vehicles for at least another year.

City councillors voted unanimously today in favour of keeping the “Support Our Troops” decals on fire trucks and ambulances.

The issue became a political hot potato after Mayor David Miller backed a plan by fire and ambulance officials to have the stickers removed, starting in September.

The decal campaign was originally scheduled to last only one year, and officials said they had fielded calls from the public expressing concern the decals were a symbol of support for the war in Afghanistan.

The controversy around the removal issue culminated today in unanimous support at city hall for motion to keep the decals on the vehicles indefinitely.

Earlier today, the Royal Canadian Legion said it hoped Toronto would continue to display the decals.

Although Mr. Miller had indicated he wouldn't support the motion, he said today the death of three more soldiers in Afghanistan brought the issue home for him.

 

[Loachman]

We serve any party that is in power.

Her Majesty is a party?

 

[Blindspot]

Noticeably, Janet Davis, among a handful of other councillors were absent for the vote. She and Pam McConnell reappeared promptly after the vote. To me, this speaks to political cowardice of the basest level.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Her Majesty is a party?

She has been known to throw a good one,

dileas

tess

 

[Danjanou]

Noticeably, Janet Davis, among a handful of other councillors were absent for the vote. She and Pam McConnell reappeared promptly after the vote. To me, this speaks to political cowardice of the basest level.

Ok lucky me. I just checked the new house we bought. This moon bat Davis will now be my new city councilor in a few months. Up to now I thought anything would be an improvment on the twit I have now. :

 

[Yrys]

Up to now I thought anything would be an improvment on the twit I have now. :

You were too optomistic  !

 

[medaid]

Although I sympathize with your feelings, I disagree.  That statement would be akin to keeping our flags at half mast for ever Canadian that has fallen, which has been debated ad nausea, but would never show our strength to the enemy.  Maybe if November 11th were supported day a bit more, Remembrance would have a better connection to Afghanistan.

I guess what I meant by that is, we should honour them personally in our own ways everyday of our lives. Remember their sacrifices and think about the lives that we have because of them. Not that flags need to be half mast everyday at all. I personally can see the connections between Nov 11 and our current mission and all of our brothers and sister that we've lost over there. My point was I didn't get what mzona meant with the connection.

 

[Blindspot]

Ok lucky me. I just checked the new house we bought. This moon bat Davis will now be my new city councilor in a few months. Up to now I thought anything would be an improvment on the twit I have now. :

I heard they were going to rename your ward: Ward 31, Beaches/East Layton.

 

[medaid]

EDIT: BTW, Med Tech, your profile doesn't give us lots of info either, huh. How so?

I filled mine out. Nuff said. There are those who know who I am.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I guess what I meant by that is, we should honour them personally in our own ways everyday of our lives. Remember their sacrifices and think about the lives that we have because of them. Not that flags need to be half mast everyday at all. I personally can see the connections between Nov 11 and our current mission and all of our brothers and sister that we've lost over there. My point was I didn't get what mzona meant with the connection.

I was confused with yoru statement.  Either way, Rememberance day, has been dedicated as a day to remember our Soldier both fallen and those that have survived.  We must place a greater emphasis on this day.

Recognizing that our freedom is owed to them, is also a must on a daily basis.

dileas

tess

 

[mzona]

Ok, the anti-ribbon people claim that "Support our Troops" pisses off vets and soldiers that are not currently in Afghanistan. I said that we pay our respects to vets and remember and prey for them on the Remembrance day, and MedTech said that we do it pretty much every day, which further supports the argument that 'Support the troops' ribbons don't diminish in any way their work and thus shouldn't be interpreted this way. I guess that's the connection.

 

[observor 69]

Reply I received from the Mayor's Office:

From: Mayor Miller
To: xxxx
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Support our Troops


Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your email letter.



I appreciate you taking the time to write to share your perspective.



The Mayor has been clear that he supports our troops, especially those put in dangerous circumstances and he will continue to do so.  I should note like many families, the Mayor too has family in the military.  We feel the best outcome would be to have everyone come home safely.



The mayor attended a rally in Toronto last summer supporting the troops and signed a banner sent to serving troops.



The matter of the decals removal was strictly administrative and not a political decision.

At no time were the Chiefs Fire and EMS ordered to remove the ribbons from their vehicles. Media reporting on this issue has been somewhat inaccurate.



The reality in Toronto is that there are many people who have written expressing concern that the decals were on the vehicles in the first place. They saw it as a sign of support for a particular military action that has divided Canadians.



The Chiefs of EMS and Fire have stated that the ribbon campaign was, from the outset, time limited and was undertaken as a symbol of the support we all have for our troops serving abroad.



The one-year program was a compromise to allow support while respecting those who were offended by the decals in the first place.



The emergency services have a long history of working closely with our military services.  Both Emergency Medical Services and Toronto Fire train and work side-by-side with the military to ensure preparedness for emergencies and to share best practices. That relationship will continue.



The city of Toronto was also the first to lower its flag in respect when the federal government would not for a fallen Torontonian.



The ribbon campaign is part of a national program that was established by the Canadian Forces Personnel Support Agency.  Emergency services from across Canada have participated in this program. The emergency services share the common thread of personal sacrifice, dedication and professionalism with Canadian forces and the two services will continue to support and work with Canada's military.



The removal of the ribbons will take place as part of the regular maintenance cycle for the vehicles. Starting in September, removal of the ribbons from all emergency services' vehicles will take 5 or 6 months as they come in for maintenance.



Again, the Mayor strongly supports the troops and that will never change irrespective of what decals or stickers are on some city vehicles.



Yours truly,

Joanne Miller