The "Occupy" Movement

[George Wallace]

No, you didn't say anything, you just keep dodging the question because you know it would bring merit to the idea that these tax loopholes should be closed.

And then spouting off with rhetoric about how anything that raises taxes on the rich (including closing loopholes) *MUST* be bad for society.

:

You really don't pay attention to detail.  You don't like what I say, calling it drivel or just rhetoric, while not proving anything to the contrary.  All you want is to bitch and complain and be part of the problem, but not provide any solutions.  When you are told anything different than what your beliefs are, you call BS.  Two can play that game.  Prove to me, and the others, that all examples that we have seen with Socialism, Communism and Welfare Starts States in the West have prospered by stifling innovation and initiative of persons wanting to attain wealth.  Tell me how great the world is when you penalize those who attempt to achieve something better for themselves.  As I said, and others have as well, when you take away incentives and stifle industry and the wealthy, they leave.  Perhaps you ought to have a look at the Irving family history and wonder why old man Irving moved everything offshore.  Or perhaps you can look at former Prime Minister Paul Martin and his business dealings.  But I guess this is all just drivel and rhetoric to you and you really don't want to put any thought into it.  Fine with me.

 

[ModlrMike]

This would be the same Paul Martin that flags his ships in the Bahamas to avoid paying tax in Canada?

 

[ballz]

:

You really don't pay attention to detail.  You don't like what I say, calling it drivel or just rhetoric, while not proving anything to the contrary.  All you want is to ***** and complain and be part of the problem, but not provide any solutions.  When you are told anything different than what your beliefs are, you call BS.  Two can play that game.  Prove to me, and the others, that all examples that we have seen with Socialism, Communism and Welfare Starts in the West have prospered by stifling innovation and initiative of persons wanting to attain wealth.  Tell me how great the world is when you penalize those who attempt to achieve something better for themselves.  As I said, and others have as well, when you take away incentives and stifle industry and the wealthy, they leave.  Perhaps you ought to have a look at the Irving family history and wonder why old man Irving moved everything offshore.  Or perhaps you can look at former Prime Minister Paul Martin and his business dealings.  But I guess this is all just drivel and rhetoric to you and you really don't want to put any thought into it.  Fine with me.

You keep crying "socialist" like a broken Republican record. What is there about a tax system that has the rich pay *at least* the same tax rate as everyone else that is socialist? It has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism.

I'm not even talking about socialism, communism, or capitalism. I am talking about regressive tax systems, flat tax systems, and progressive tax systems.

And you are still singing the same tune about socialism vs capitalism which actually has *nothing* to do with it, despite the fact that you can have any of the three tax systems in a capitalist society or a socialist society.

I provided you with a solution... close the loopholes and have a flat tax rate, or a simpler progressive tax rate than what we currently have. You somehow started singing about socialism.

 

[The_Falcon]

I like and believe in the statement "No one else is entitled, to what I have earned".

 

[ArmyRick]

A word of caution. I have some respect for those that have earned their income through private means and done well. My father-in-law started his own structural steel company and has done quite well for himself. He is an example of what I might call wealth well earned.

Than there is the other side of the coin. I worked for a company at one time, will not say who, that basically the owner was getting rich ripping people off and creating paper trails and confusion so no one could really pin anybody for it. Not unless a crown attorney has an army of lawyers to waste time going after this company. I found out about this because they liked me and started to fill me in on a few ways of how they do things. That was enough for me to say I'm done.

There are companies out there that abuse their power of finance and/or political influence. Those of us been in CAF long enough have seen it. Every peice of kit purchsed for the CF was on the level, right?

 

[a_majoor]

One of the nice things about the Flat or Single tax (besides the efficiency) is it eliminates the various loopholes and places where paper trails and other obscurants can be laid: you made $x dollars in wages, real estate, dividend income, interest = you pay y%.

The current tax code is basically a repository of who won or lost the political game; tax exemptions, etc. are net "wins" for someone, we who pay to make up these deficits lose. A single tax offers no incentives to move money or investments around, if you made $1,000,000 in capital gains you pay the same as if you collected $1,000,000 in interest payments. Under the current system, you are penalized for collecting interest and rewarded for investing for capital gains, regardless of what your interests or risk tolerance are.

We also have an example (posted here) which demonstrates that incentives do matter, although even reading the newspaper will provide innumerable examples (look at what happened in France when the top rate was raised to 75%, or for that matter look at the cahnge in US GDP, median income and other wealth indicators before and after the Reagan Revolution, and consider how that happened).

 

[a_majoor]

Looks like the "Occupy" people made a lasting impression on the good citizens of New York:

http://americanglob.com/2014/04/12/new-york-court-struggles-to-find-jurors-who-dont-hate-the-occupy-movement/

New York Court Struggles To Find Jurors Who Don’t Hate The Occupy Movement
APRIL 12, 2014

The trial of an Occupy Wall Street activist accused of assaulting a police officer has been held up by the jury selection process.

The problem? No one in New York likes the Occupy movement. I wonder why?

The Guardian UK reports…

Trial of Occupy activist struggles to find jurors impartial to protest movement

It is the most important question being asked of dozens of New Yorkers lined up as potential jurors for the trial of Cecily McMillan, an Occupy Wall Street activist accused of assaulting a police officer: what do you think of her protest movement?

Unfortunately for those keen on the swift procession of justice, a series of Manhattan residents who presented themselves at the criminal courthouse this week declared that they strongly disagreed with it – and could not promise to be impartial about one of its members.

“I’m involved in Wall Street things. I’m on the Wall Street side, not their side,” George Yih, one of a group of prospective jurors whose names were plucked from a tombola by the clerk, said under questioning from Judge Ronald Zweibel on Wednesday. “They can protest all they want, but they can’t brainwash my mind.”

I have a sudden strange new respect for New Yorkers.