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The Legality of Self Defence In Canada

Jed

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A short story wrt our Canadian Self Defence Laws.

To set the background, a small town in NE Saskatchewan. One night my wife and I hear a commotion out in our driveway and she tries to fire me up to get out there and do something about it. I ignore her and roll over and go back to sleep. The next day we get the news that some dudes came off the Res, ripped around town doing their thing. This was after they knocked on a local farmer's door, put a round in his brain and pretty much ruined him and his family's lives.

A few days later I was finishing up my run and I pass a guy and girl walking into town down the back road. I thought it was a bit strange that the guy had the butt of a rifle sticking out of his backpack. I got back to the house and was sipping on a cold water and I see this dude run across my front lawn with what looks like a M16. My front door bell rings, and out of curiosity I get up and answer the door. The girl is at the door with a sales pitch trying to sell me some magazines or something. I was thinking "Where the hell did the dude with the M16 go?"  and he jumps out from behind my juniper bush, points his rifle at me, his hand goes for the cocking lever and I hear click! click! I jumped to the side, slammed the door and spun the dead bolt. After a short pause to see if any rounds were coming through the front door, I ran down stairs grabbed my shotgun intending on going out the backdoor and go sort the situation out.

When I was downstairs looking for a box of 12 guage shells, my 4 year old boy grabs hold of my leg and won't let go. My wife was out in the backyard suntanning and didn't appreciiate my abrupt tone telling her to get in the house now. Lucky for me all this unexpected drama slowed me down enough to think logically and I decided to phone the local RCMP detachment.

They came around about 10-15 minutes later a picked up the guy and the girl. Apparently the M-16 was a realistic toy gun and this was some sort of sales gimmick they were employing. They gave them a ride to the edge of town and sent them on their merry way.

The RCMP that I gave my statement too said to me, (his house was over on the next cul de sac) "Damn good thing they didn't come to my house, I would have been out the back door and would have put my gun on him!".

When I gave my statement I figured the bit about me grabbing my shotgun wasn't very pertinent to the situation.

I'm sure glad I never put the Canadian Laws of Self Defence to the test.  ;D
 

kstart

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http://www.bojuka.ca/self-defense-canadian-law.shtml

SELF DEFENSE AND CANADIAN LAW
When it comes to the issue of self defense and the use of intelligent and reasonable force it is important to understand the law as it applies to you and your situation. In this article we will touch on this subject and how it applies to Canadians.


How much force is "reasonable force"?
This is the most important and most difficult question to answer when it comes to your legal right to defend yourself and your loved ones. The definition of "reasonable force" can differ from one area to another so it is important that your are aware of your legal rights and obligations for where you live. The use of force also differs for civilians and law enforcement officers. The the purpose of this article we will be focussing on the use of force as it applies to civilians.

In general, reasonable force can be defined as the minimal force required to deter or prevent an assault from occuring or being repeated. This would include removing yourself from a potentially violent situation before an assault occurs, verbal de-escalation, posturing, and physically defending oneself. When training in self defense it is important to practise scenarios that will allow you to assess the threat level and act accordingly. If you can leave safely without risking injury to yourself or another, then you must leave. If your are being assaulted or an assault is imminent then you can use only the amount of force necessary to stop the assault. You are not permitted to punish the assailant or seek revenge. You have to ask yourself the question "what would another reasonable person do in the same circumstances".

By training this way you will be able to more appropriately respond to a violent altercation and protect yourself from physical harm and from prosecution by the law. Look at your self defense techniques and ask yourself if the amount of damage being inflicted on the assailant would be deemed reasonable for the type of assault. A smaller, weaker or more volnerable person for example, may reasonably inflict more damage than a larger or stronger person in the same situation. It is important to "injure to degree" according to the threat level.


Self Defense and the Canadian Criminal Code:
Below is how self defense is defined by the Canadian Criminal Code:

Defense of Person

Self-Defence Against Unprovoked Assault
... / Extent of justification.

34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if

(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm. [R.S. c.C-34, s.34.]
Self-Defence In Case Of Aggression.

35. Every one who has without justification assaulted another but did not commence the assault with intent to cause death or grievous bodily harm, or has without justification provoked an assault on himself by another, may justify the use of force subsequent to the assault if

(a) he uses the force
(i) under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence of the person whom he has assaulted or provoked, and
(ii) in the belief, on reasonable grounds, that it is necessary in order to preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm;
(b) he did not, at any time before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose, endeavour to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and
(c) he declined further conflict and quitted or retreated from it as far as it was feasible to do so before the necessity of preserving himself from death or grievous bodily harm arose. [R.S. c.C-34, s.35.]
Provocation.

36. Provocation includes, for the purposes of sections 34 and 35, provocation by blows, words or gestures. [R.S. c.C-34, s.36.]

Preventing Assault
... / Extent of justification.

37. (1) Every one is justified in using force to defend himself or any one under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than is necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it.

(2) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to justify the wilful infliction of any hurt or mischief that is excessive, having regard to the nature of the assault that the force used was intended to prevent. [R.S. c.C-34, s.37.]


Reference: Departartment of Justice Canada: Criminal Code 
 

Found this which looks like good training re: the woman fearful re: TTC travel by night, women's self-defense

http://info363.typepad.com/blog/

SAFE International covers

1. Awareness and Avoidance:

 

Awareness and Avoidance strategies which are based on one's daily routines. 
We examine what an attacker looks for, what an attacker wants, and doesn't want in confrontation.
One of the biggest topics we examine, is how most people are too polite, even when their intuition is telling them the complete opposite. 
We cover the most common distraction techniques an attacker will use to gain an advantage. 

2.  When avoidance is no longer possible

We then move on to verbal strategies in the event that avoidance is no longer possible.
Rather than just teaching to yell at a potential attacker, we cover a few verbal strategies  based on the aggressor and the scenario
 

3.  Physical Self-Defence

  The third step is addressing the physical aspect of self defense.  We begin with the advantages of adopting a passive stance rather than an aggressive stance.  We only teach gross motor strikes due to the adrenal rush one gets when they are in a highly stressful state such as an attack scenario.  We teach a philsophy of "Attack the Attacker" which reverses one from being the Prey, to that of being the Predator. 


I think this looks to be arranged in a logical sequence, geared to risk escalation.  It looks to me to be the right way to be thinking about things, and preparation for each stage of threat, types of scenarios and attackers.

Otten there's a continuum between "percieved, potential threat" when aware, and time for planning, if prepared by training, go over options of avoidance, maintain awareness and physical prepardness to physically defend oneself.

I think over my travel routes, and I keep aware of when I need to attend more if I'm in a spot that is more isolated.

Understanding and distinguishing types of perpetrators is important as well in preparation.  I got caught off guard with first assault at 16, because although lots of things from intuition, I was in denial about it being a sexual predator-- and I was caught off guard.  I cognized creepy, and 'watch out' and all sorts of things from my intuition, which I minimized and disregarded, 'not possible'.  I blacked out, I can't remember how I was grabbed.  It came from denial, hoping it was just a mugging.  Second assault I was more prepared to respond, but looking back, and remembering my inutition, I could have run when I came into those moments where no-one else was around (6pm, peopel were on the path, but it was just moments when they weren't and I was islated-- that's what perps look for, opportunity.  Have inutition and knowing when to boot up fight/flight is useful and I think training helps.

I don't think my case is that exceptional and I don't know many women who've not had to cope with difficult situations. 

You can look at stats and say, well "unlikely" but there are mitgating factors which increase the risks for attack, such as finding oneself temporarily isolated, which can happen along any travel route-- training is being aware of those shifts and who's around and about planning ways if possible to avoid unsafe routes, or to try to avoid travelling alone (which often not that possible, as life goes).  Some attacks can be averted by verbal skills (drunks, bars, etc. not that hard to do-- Non-Violent Crisis Prevention is good training, e.g. aware of verbal aggression and it's escalation and how to diffuse, prevent physical altercations-- an dif one is in control of oneself while under the influence).

Guns and home defense, shoudl also be planning ahead of time, a Safety Plan and all family members on the same page, clarity of roles-- who stays with kids, secured room, barricade, phone 911; a code for trouble, so there's less questioning, doubt, denial, but "code red" get the kids and self to safety.  Prevention with alarm system, doors, windows; rules about answering the door to strangers, age appropriate instructions.

Type of invasion-- and for B&Es, kid after property for drug money or whatever-- know that it could likely be more than one person there-- containment is important-- don't want to shoot your 16 year old daughter by mistake.  Training and safety plan should be clear, not to deviate.  If you are focussed with the idea that only one intruder, you can gravely misjudge the situation.  Another partner might try to jack you wiht the gun, and the intruders can also be more sophisticated (e.g. if psychopathically motivated type of criminal).

Sexual predators, probably do more of the sneak up.  Have a dog is a good alarm system too, and being attentive, they know things, perceive things before we do.  Military training wasn't enough to keep Cpl. Cormier safe from Co. Williams.  It can also be a shock if the perpetrator is someone you know, can be stunned by that and be at a disadvantage.  If alone and isolated, extra percaution is important and don't worry about being polite.

Re: Homeless People

You want to think the homeless people are threats, stats wise, I wouldn't assume that much different than general population.  Years ago, and they're probably long-dead now, but there was an enlisted at one of the German bases that let a superior officer be alone with his daughter (child). . . perpetrator. . .  you don't let things like that happen in this day and age, regardless of status of a person-- we know better now.  You don't get drunk, pass out and let others drunks wander through the house when you've got children to protect.  It could be anyone, so 'status' doesn't say it.  Behaviours and opportunities say a lot more about risk.

It's not about who, as much as situation.  Don't get tricked by who, behaviours, situations of isolation are more important to attend to-- it's about opportunity-- prevent opportunities for abuse.

Streetwise, look out for people who are intoxicated showing, irratic behaviours or violent (verbal precedes physical violence-- Non-Violent Crisis Intervention is a useful skill for that, to de-escalate before it becomes violent); gangs with groupthink going on (whether a gang of jocks or a gang of criminal, drug dealing, etc. who have stupid things going on, gang-rape, swarming and stalking creep sexual predators.  Be aware of promixity and don't go starting fights.

A lot of the homeless people have been through more than you can imagine.  Stupid kids who go down to hang out when they don't have to are stupid, because it may seem like partying one moment and can become very dangerous and violent.  Predators.  These people don't have safe places to live, and a lot of stuff happens in that case.  Combat, you're going to know someone who didn't make it, or know a story about a horrible demise, or someone who got tortured, raped, went missing, murdered, survived forcible confinement, etc., walked in and found the suicide, or found someone just after the assault and hear the horror witnessed the trauma, wounds, scars; acts committed in front of their eyes and couldn't stop it. . . a combo of those things, or had gone through some of that directly. . . exploitive predators (whether gangs, pimps, and the other predators who prey on homeless people).  It's a hell-hole, masked by what others see as addiction, panhandling.  Abuses by authorities, as children, sold by their parents, brought up in unsafe homes-- it's absolutely ugly.  I won't go into details, too disturbing.  I did 10 years as a street outreach worker (with partner, trained-- never needed a gun or weapon, though many were around [partially aware of thatat times] but not drawn, never had problems with approach-- training was good).  But I stayed for way too long than what was healthy.

But picking on them for kicks-- that makes you a predator, one of many they've seen and it contributes to violence.  More can be done re: housing and treatment (and for crack/meth-- I'm not opposed to forced treatment-- choice jail or rehab, because some of them are killing themselves out there and need help and support to get out of it).

They don't have private health insurance either so no Homewood, no Bellwood for them (thoguh some with a very high amont of traumatic exposures which can creep back up them when trying to get clean, beyond survival mode).  Some don't have healthy intact families for support-- they were sick and dangerous to begin with. . . (some do and they're stupid, but if they can get away and off the street before more damage happens, they can recover better, with supports).

Majority are not violent.  There's a few "hero-bums" that never get reported to the media.  One I know stopped a rape against a female youth (story by him and I also heard it from the victim).  Another one, saved my brother from a wicked beating, using a smart verbal intervention that was calm and resonable.  (Brother spotted from the street, a POS beating on his woman on the balacony of this bar-- he ran up to stop it, angry.  Bouncer started beating on him-- 'the street bum' stopped it).

So, there are honourable and dishonourable in surprising places, along all walks of life, regardless of 'status'.
 

kstart

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Apologies, some of these posts of mine, maybe a bit intense.  Humour is not a crime, I've just seen that the possibility among a group, there always potentially one person who does not discern very well, and take on an attitude and act from there. . . kind of why the precept of 'lead by example' is a good one. 

Also apologies re: list of types of exposures some of homeless people have been through and if that hits too close to home.  That one "hero-bum"-- he jumped two attackers, who were attempting to rape a young woman (had elevation, stairwell, knew martial arts, kicked them both down).  He didn't do the typical stand by and do nothing-- he took the risk upon himself to stop it (I listened, I heard both accounts-- pretending I knew nothing from either-- protect confidentiality)-- a true story, you won't hear in the press. 

With people in uniform, it's a given, the types of sacrifices they've made and we know to respect that (I'd be just as hard on others, if jerks were proposing to harrass people in uniform, throw fire crackers off and watch traumatized Veterans jump-- that's sick-- and at the core, there is room to have basic respect human beings, even regardless of status).  The Uniform, always deserves respect.

The example of "he who should not be named", I realize that's an emotional issue, and hits home.  Just the point, that perpetrators are not as easily recognizable as we'd like to think, and not realizing that, can be dangerous.  And when it comes to home protection, it's useful to be careful about who one lets in.  Majority of attacks and violence do come by people we actually think we 'know'.  And it's all walks of life, that's the point I was trying to make. I don't want to add salt to wounds, not my intention, just a wake-up call.  Bad apples, anywhere.

After I rambled, I noticed CBC ran with a story re: one of the Colonel's victims, and she's suing police for not taking her seriously.  Well, there could be a bias issue around that, denial of victims (maybe there are sickos who try to fake things), but over-denial is not wise, nor is minimizing the risks, when if mindful and with good training and awareness, one can protect oneself and others better.  And of course there's the normal of regardless of preparation, things go down the way they go down.  I have hindsight, and I remember my intuition, and I learn there's ways to maximize intuition, and actions by training and it's empowering to know this.  If nothing else, the learning, better prepared if there's ever a 'next time'.

I think the concepts in the Safe International are interesting, as guidance in safety planning and prepardness, and evaluative criterion to one's safety plans to whatever situation: street, home, parking lot, paths.  Being aware of what one can be aware of.  1. Avoidance/Prevention; 2) Situational Awareness; 3) Physical Self-Defence (prior two concepts are just as important, even if CCW was legal-- can have false confidence, if lacking awareness and preparation training, etc. and that's what I mean to point out).  Other's who've known me here also know, not a good experience re: guns in the house, but I can't go there right now-- too much, and it'll go further off topic.


Jeb's experience is interesting as well, re: gun-protection in the home, as an opportunity to reflect on one's safety plans, and protocols.  And it was handled well, no-one got hurt, and the bad guys caught (dealing with police ; ) ).  The intuition aspect is interesting as well, there's sharpness of awareness there.

Just one more thing to add, re: reporting.  Post-assault, even as handled effectively, don't forget to report to police so that they have it on their records and do that immediately (I messed up on that, re: second assault, because of adrenaline high-- and my roommate who was chased by same guy some months earlier, should have reported back then, so police would be aware-- it helps especially because those behaviours can escalate, re: a sick pathology-- it serves future, possible victims, and in giving police powers to do something about it. . . before per learns more lethal means.  Reported too late and wasn't taken seriously as a result, and that's unfortunate for others, unfortunately. . . it's an awful thought).

Anyway, not meant to be offensive to anyone.  Preparation and reflection can be a good thing, consolidate safety plans, per scenarios.
 

Fishbone Jones

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kstart,

Will you please quit talking down to people here and stop treating everyone as a moron? This is a forum of mostly military people. You're preaching to the choir. While you've had some traumatic experiences, there are many here that have seen, and experienced, bad stuff too. Lots of it.

Please give your long winded prose a rest. I'm tired of fielding complaints.

Milnet.ca Staff
 

Angry56789

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Container said:
The last advice you should ever follow is a wink wink nudge nudge from a police officer who says he'd help you break the law.

Im  a reasonable cop and I dont charge folks who are victims. But I dont tell them to break the law and Ill turn a blind eye. Thats disgusting.

If Im asked I say what the law is. When someone is a victim I go after the bad guys- but I dont wink wink nudge nudge with peoples lives and potential freedom.

Durham Regional Police Service my friend.

I would gladly fight the law however if I was ever arrested for defending my life. Why should I go to jail if someone for instance tried to kill me or violently rob me? (I was victim of a home invasion robbery 10 years ago). If I had seriously injured one of the perps that night because I feared for my life....would you arrest me? (Assuming you are a cop based on your post) If I killed a man who came into my house with a gun, would you arrest me?......where is the justice in this country anymore? The criminals have more rights then we do.
 

Michael OLeary

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Angry56789 said:
The criminals have more rights then we do.

So now you've jumped from a hypothetical use of OC spray in self defence by a woman, to yourself using a gun in a home invasion scenario in support of support your "a cop told me information could get misplaced" point. Maybe if you stayed on one discussion scenario at a time, then your responses might make sense.
 

Scott

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Angry56789 said:
Durham Regional Police Service my friend.

I would gladly fight the law however if I was ever arrested for defending my life. Why should I go to jail if someone for instance tried to kill me or violently rob me? (I was victim of a home invasion robbery 10 years ago). If I had seriously injured one of the perps that night because I feared for my life....would you arrest me? (Assuming you are a cop based on your post) If I killed a man who came into my house with a gun, would you arrest me?......where is the justice in this country anymore? The criminals have more rights then we do.

And you want to be a cop?

I'm glad they have a great big battery of tests and interviews to root out the sort of stuff I have seen you posting.

Cheers
 

Container

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If those hypotheticals happened. Where you killed a guy- I would make sure you talked to a good lawyer and I would cover all the bases in an investigation so that your story of self defence couldnt be twisted.

You do realize that if someone dies there has to be an investigation right? No matter if I show up and think  "thank god the good guys won!", I have to make sure that hippies cant accuse of anything untoward. Thats for your protection, mine, and everyone elses.

You should probably stay in the military a little longer until your finish baking. You need to mellow and start being a critical thinker- if you are successful you'll be a hot head liability that people dont want to work with. No tactical unit, of any color, will touch you. I know your type- ERT/ TAC/ TRU / Contaiment/ EDU will be completely off limits to you until you learn to relax. Its all attitude. They dont care about your one sandbox tour if you cant stop being a ******* for 15 mins.

Also- I dont care what force the cop was with. There are dumb cops on every force. I dont take my cues from DRPS
 

Journeyman

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Container said:
You should probably stay in the military a little longer ......
Noooooo!!! Please let someone, anyone, more worthy take him.  :nod:
 

Colin Parkinson

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Meanwhile back in the real world......


OTTAWA — An Ontario man who is alleged to have stabbed an intruder to death after a home invasion in Arnprior earlier this month, will not be charged.


OPP investigators, in consultation with the Crown attorney's office, determined that no charges will be laid against the homeowners.


Police responded to a call of a break and enter in progress at a home in Arnprior, some 100 kilometres northwest of Ottawa, at 12:20 a.m. on Sept. 11.


When police arrived, they found Corey Blaskie, 41, unconscious. Blaskie was stabbed to death during an altercation with Nathan Woods and his son.


Meanwhile, neighbours of the Arnprior man said the former military officer involved in the altercation with Blaskie had had his home broken into several times last summer.


The man had installed an alarm system and lights on the side of his home and garage as a precaution, a neighbour said.


"I think he was pushed too far, you know? It wasn't going to happen again," said the neighbour, who didn't want to be identified. "That was somebody in their house or in their yard. That's the only reason this happened."


The night of his death, Blaskie had told Jennifer Prince, his girlfriend of two years, that he was heading out for a bike ride.


"It was nothing unusual for Corey to bike at nighttime," said Prince. "He enjoyed the tranquillity of being able to bike around the town for an hour when he couldn't sleep."


In cases of self-defence, particularly ones that happen inside the home, suspects initially may be charged, but they usually have a good chance of avoiding prosecution — particularly if they face a jury trial.


Lawrence Manzer of Burton, N.B., was charged in 2010 with firearms offences after confronting intruders on his neighbour's property with an unloaded shotgun, although the charges were later thrown out on a technicality.


In May, Joseph Singleton, 46, a farmer in Taber, Alta., had his charges — assault with a weapon and assault causing bodily harm, after he used a hatchet to wound a man who had just burgled his house — referred to an alternative measures program.


In 2008, Albertan Dan Olineck fended off his Calgary-area farmhouse from two home invaders with a knife, killing one in the process. Crown prosecutors decided not to press charges against Olineck after determining he had acted in self-defence.


Ottawa Citizen


mhurley@ottawacitizen.com



Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/charges+fatal+stabbing+during+break+Ontario+police/5466164/story.html#ixzz1ZH0eeGqr
 

kstart

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recceguy said:
kstart,

Will you please quit talking down to people here and stop treating everyone as a moron? This is a forum of mostly military people. You're preaching to the choir. While you've had some traumatic experiences, there are many here that have seen, and experienced, bad stuff too. Lots of it.

Please give your long winded prose a rest. I'm tired of fielding complaints.

Milnet.ca Staff

I know a 100% I’m not the only one to have suffered something ‘traumatic”.  I also know that chances are everyone here has either directly experienced something traumatic or knows someone close to them who has. Even regardless of combat military training, e.g.  http://www.kwantlen.ca/pscm/wenlido/wenstats.htm (Stats-Can quotes),

I’m in conflict with some of the ‘conventional wisdom” because some of it is way off the mark and it can serve to endanger more people’s lives, because of biases which can impede, derail and override both intuitive awareness and natural self-protection fight response (regardless of if it‘s bolstered by combat-defense training):

http://portal.citysoup.ca/NR/exeres/C4568C80-EBC9-4737-8390-E19AC0457712.htm
Location; “Appearance of Attacker”; confusion due to expectations re: “Roles”, abuse by authority, etc.


Military training alone may not be sufficient enough for ALL assault scenarios, e.g. domestic assaults or given, e.g.:
http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/pages/military-sexual-trauma-general.asp

It ain't no choir (but it happens everywhere and anywhere).

Point taken about the length of posts.  I found better links which back up my views. 

There were other posts re: concern of military members for non-military-trained loved ones, e.g. the military member who was concerned for his GF's safety riding the TTC late at night and some of those issues might not be covered by standard martial-arts type courses.  Found a link that expresses some of my concerns related to that (if I found that earlier, I wouldn't have felt the need to personally disclose to try to warn.  It's bad out there, I've know too many people who've gone through it.  60% of assaults, weapon was involved-- I know people who've survived much worse then I did here in Canada):

http://www.kwantlen.ca/pscm/wenlido/ReducetheRisk.pdf
Safety tips to limit/manage risk in some situations: prevention, awareness, intuition-- can help re: law abiding
Scenarios re: ON THE MOVE: When Walking; While Running; On Transit; Around Your Vehicle; Taxi; Riding with Others; When You Travel away from Home; Work, etc. 

From now on, I'll try to keep to smaller posts and follow advice just given by a recent poster to another re: one assault scenario at a time.
Not to derail home invasion issue.

 

Michael OLeary

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kstart said:
Point taken about the length of posts.  I found better links which back up my views. 

kstart,

Take a break. If anyone wants to engage you they will identify specific points from your posts that they want to discuss and then you can beat those specific issues to death with them.

To put your posts in perspective, your 109 posts, to date, including quoted passages, total almost 75000 words. I know this because I copied and pasted them from your post record to confirm the count. (74,667 to be precise, including title and date lines.)

YOU HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN A NOVEL HERE.  Stop. If you have any fans they can contact you directly for the rest of the trilogy.

Alternatively, start a blog.

Milnet.ca Staff
 

Angry56789

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Scott said:
And you want to be a cop?

I'm glad they have a great big battery of tests and interviews to root out the sort of stuff I have seen you posting.

Cheers

How does my belief in that sometimes it appears that criminals have more rights make me "not the right fit" to be a police officer? Yes I had a lapse in judgement on my very first post on here, I apologized openly for it....from there people can chose to judge me how they wish. My actions were not justified by any means, I wanted to set things straight as best as I can. Concerning the person who I attacked verbally on here; I tried my best to get my apology to him, he of course has the right to be mad at me or however he feels toward me. I said what I said, so now I get to accept whatever is directed back to me. I can't argue that because I

Feel free to talk to me once you experience being hogtied on your living room floor, watching a man with a pistol at the back of your fathers head, while his partner is pillaging your home....threatening to return to deal vengeance to the female members of the household should we call 911 after. I thank (whoever) that our neighbour at that time called the police because he heard them (we lived in a duplex) and both perps were captured. 6 years of counselling and I think I am not too bad off from that ordeal that I would not wish on anyone. I am sorry my belief toward our justice system offends you.

You know nothing at all about me aside from what you can gather on here. You have no idea where I have been, what I have done, or what skills I have. You have no idea at all about my education, personal experiences, or anything else I can offer. I do not particularly care about your opinion or advice because I did not ask for it.

.....no need to "cheers" me, we are not friends or acquaintances.
 

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Angry56789 said:
How does my belief in that sometimes it appears that criminals have more rights make me "not the right fit" to be a police officer? Yes I had a lapse in judgement on my very first post on here, I apologized openly for it....from there people can chose to judge me how they wish. My actions were not justified by any means, I wanted to set things straight as best as I can. Concerning the person who I attacked verbally on here; I tried my best to get my apology to him, he of course has the right to be mad at me or however he feels toward me. I said what I said, so now I get to accept whatever is directed back to me. I can't argue that because I

Feel free to talk to me once you experience being hogtied on your living room floor, watching a man with a pistol at the back of your fathers head, while his partner is pillaging your home....threatening to return to deal vengeance to the female members of the household should we call 911 after. I thank (whoever) that our neighbour at that time called the police because he heard them (we lived in a duplex) and both perps were captured. 6 years of counselling and I think I am not too bad off from that ordeal that I would not wish on anyone. I am sorry my belief toward our justice system offends you.

You know nothing at all about me aside from what you can gather on here. You have no idea where I have been, what I have done, or what skills I have. You have no idea at all about my education, personal experiences, or anything else I can offer. I do not particularly care about your opinion or advice because I did not ask for it.

.....no need to "cheers" me, we are not friends or acquaintances.


First impressions and all that. You made your bed, you gotta sleep in it. It's no one's fault here if they have a low impression of you. No one but your own, that is.

BTW, snarking back doesn't further your cause.

Just sayin'.
 

klink1983

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Angry56789 said:
How does my belief in that sometimes it appears that criminals have more rights make me "not the right fit" to be a police officer? Yes I had a lapse in judgement on my very first post on here, I apologized openly for it....from there people can chose to judge me how they wish. My actions were not justified by any means, I wanted to set things straight as best as I can. Concerning the person who I attacked verbally on here; I tried my best to get my apology to him, he of course has the right to be mad at me or however he feels toward me. I said what I said, so now I get to accept whatever is directed back to me. I can't argue that because I

Feel free to talk to me once you experience being hogtied on your living room floor, watching a man with a pistol at the back of your fathers head, while his partner is pillaging your home....threatening to return to deal vengeance to the female members of the household should we call 911 after. I thank (whoever) that our neighbour at that time called the police because he heard them (we lived in a duplex) and both perps were captured. 6 years of counselling and I think I am not too bad off from that ordeal that I would not wish on anyone. I am sorry my belief toward our justice system offends you.

You know nothing at all about me aside from what you can gather on here. You have no idea where I have been, what I have done, or what skills I have. You have no idea at all about my education, personal experiences, or anything else I can offer. I do not particularly care about your opinion or advice because I did not ask for it.

.....no need to "cheers" me, we are not friends or acquaintances.

Give the guy some slack, he stepped on his d***, and was at least man enough to say sorry. No need to judge further. Everyone in here has tasted their own boot polish before, I am no exception to this.

Angry, Having your reasons for hating the CF is one thing, verbally assaulting someone who actually didnt do anything to you is another. Its not wise to stand on the middle of a gas soaked rope bridge with a cigarette...know what I mean. Feel free to PM me, I'd love to give you the opportunity to bend my ear. I am disgruntled to sorts, and I know first hand it is hard sometimes to put your beliefs aside to do your job. I hate the CF for my own reasons and I want out, but I don't attack people who didn't do me wrong. I do not know Mr Seggie either, I bet if you approached him different, he would probably be more interested in offering you advice.
 

Scott

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Angry56789 said:
Bla, bla, bla...

Nah, not worth it. Good luck to you. I hope you can somehow pull your head out of your ass before too long...I have my doubts, though.

I won't even bother addressing any of the rest of that load of crap.

Cheers
 
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