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The education bubble

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Brad Sallows said:
Dave Burge (Iowahawk) pulled the curtain away from a myth about education in Texas a while back.  Let it serve as an example of the danger of believing everything written, even if it is written by a Nobel prize winner.

There already are "national standards" for education: whatever is needed to get accepted into universities in Canada.  High school graduates seem to be able to get into universities irrespective of province of origin and whether they attend for 12 or 13 years.  Inviting another layer of bureaucracy without need is an invitation to screw things up.

OK, I'm not following the logic in the link provided.  I am not disputing the facts as they are laid out, but I don't understand his approach or why it is valid.  The writer is disputing Paul Krugman's facts that Texas scored 47th on ACT/SATs, which is considerably lower than Wisconsin which placed 2nd.  But when rebutting, he uses  the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) stats for grade schoolers.  Are ACT/SATs not college entrance tests vice grade school assessments?  How is this valid?

The only thing this tells me is that Texans are very good grade school students, but fall off the rails and get stupider through high school, or maybe it's the influx of star athletes they recruit.  ???  :sarcasm:
 
Texas has a high dropout rate; large percentages of African-Americans and Hispanics, especially illegal immigrants, either do not finish high school at all or enter the labour force without ever considering university.

Why?

1. Large pockets of rural and urban poor in families wherein education, above about 8th grade, is considered a waste; and

2. A pretty good economy - "muscle jobs" appear to be always available. I expect to see, as I have for most of the past few winters, construction projects delayed because they are "awaiting labour."

One key element in the in the SAT score ranks, one that is rarely mentioned, is Participation Rate. Look at the "top 10" states: their participation rates are ALL under 10%. Look at the bottom 10: their rates are almost all over 50%. As a general rule the higher the participation rate the lower the overall scores - more kids try so more kids do poorly and they drag the average scores down. Texas' participation rate is 58%, Wisconsin's is only 5%. If only the top 5% of Texas students tried the SAT then I guarantee their scores would be much, much higher, but Paul Krugman didn't discuss that.
 
>I am not disputing the facts as they are laid out, but I don't understand his approach or why it is valid.

An explanation is here, with some illustrative examples.

The major takeaway is that educational results depend a hell of a lot more on factors other than basic funding.  Both Canada and the US have increased per pupil funding dramatically in the past few decades, with no indication that I can see that today's graduates are significantly better than the generation that conceived and engineered superhighways, jet aircraft, spaceflight, civil rights advances, etc.  Teachers are paid a lot more, though, and the number of equally well-paid administrative bureaucrats has exploded, so at least some good has come of it.
 
Brad Sallows said:
The major takeaway is that educational results depend a hell of a lot more on factors other than basic funding.  Both Canada and the US have increased per pupil funding dramatically in the past few decades, with no indication that I can see that today's graduates are significantly better than the generation that conceived and engineered superhighways, jet aircraft, spaceflight, civil rights advances, etc.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

You make this shit up just to try and fill your arguement,.............well, at least I hope you do and not actually believe it.

Because nothing inovative has happened in the last 20 years has it? [typed from a portable computer]
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

You make this shit up just to try and fill your arguement,.............well, at least I hope you do and not actually believe it.

Because nothing inovative has happened in the last 20 years has it? [typed from a portable computer]


The portable computer (IBM 5100) was invented in 1975 (37 years ago). The modern laptop was flying in space 30 years ago, (GRiD Compass).

GRiDCompassInSpace.jpg

GRiD Compass 1100 used in space by NASA

Spaceflight itself, including the lunar landing, was planned and managed by engineers using:

indx01a.jpg


There is an idea amongst some (many?) academics that innovation (superhighways, jet aircraft, spaceflight etc) was considerably stronger (by a factor of about 15:1) in the 40 years from 1932-1972 than in the 40 year period from 1972 to 2012.

 
Most people might not consider something weighing 55 pounds as "portable".

Interesting blog,.............basically I get if the money would only flow again we could keep inventing......
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Most people might not consider something weighing 55 pounds as "portable".

Interesting blog,.............basically I get if the money would only flow again we could keep inventing......


I don't agree completely with money = innovation, but without some programme spending (infrastructure, defence R&D, "big science," etc) innovation will slow; but a lot of the innovation in e.g. the 1930s and '40s occurred in universities in an era when admission and graduation standards were very, very high.
 
That looks like my old MSTAR CPU.  The one that we are still using.  166MHz of pure processing power.

 
>Because nothing inovative has happened in the last 20 years has it?

There has been plenty of innovation, but that's irrelevant to my point, which is that today's high school (and university) graduates leave their respective institutions with approximately the same toolset as their parents and grandparents.    Where the ball lies when it is their turn to pick it up and run with it doesn't really have a bearing on the matter.
 
>basically I get if the money would only flow again we could keep inventing

Capital and innovation never completely go away, although they can become mired by poor policies.  But yes; each time we decide to pay more money for something we already have for whatever we currently pay for it, we give up the opportunity to do something new and different with the "more money".
 
I think it is as simple as innovation slowing because of private industry's unwillingness to take risk.  In a slowing market, R&D will certainly be the first to be cut, but yes in order to remain competitive, it will never be completely cut. 

Here's another education topic that has been near and dear to my heart, since I have 3 school aged children.  Mathematics, and the way it is being taught, specifically new methods vs. old.  From my perspective it seems that the education system has introduced new methods at the expense of the old, tried, and true methods that most of us were taught.  Although I am always in favour of innovation and new ways of doing things, I would never replace the proven with an unproven experiment, which is what seems to be happening now.

Here are a few articles I dug up that support my reasoning.  The first is Maclean's article that I read a few months ago, that confirmed my thoughts that I was expressing to my kid's teachers.

Why is it your job to teach your kid math?
Parents are being forced to hit the books and help tutor their kids through a confusing curriculum.
by Cynthia Reynolds on Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:38am

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/03/13/have-you-finished-your-homework-mom/

This article speaks to the new methods and how they may be wrong.

New math equals trouble, education expert says
CBC News Posted: Sep 21, 2011 12:49 PM CST

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/09/21/new-math-paper.html

This article speaks to this being the first generation of teachers that don't have the skills to teach properly.

Bad math blamed on 'abysmal' university students
CBC News Posted: Sep 22, 2011 9:08 PM CST

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2011/09/22/sk-math-training-110922.html

Here is Rex Murphy asking the question, that also has the external links relating to this subject, some of which I posted above.

Is there something wrong with the way math is taught in Canadian schools?
-Rex Murphy

http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/episode/2012/04/15/is-there-something-wrong-with-the-way-math-is-taught-in-canadian-schools/

When our students are showing up to university without that same skills that the previous generation had, it seems like a no brainer to me, that the elementary and secondary systems are doing something wrong.  I think the new agers would argue that this is just a transitional phase and that it will take time for the new methods to take hold.  I personally don't think they examined the follow on effects very well.  It seems the Asian countries get it, and unless we get it, they will be kicking our *** when it comes to innovation, sooner than we think.
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Economist is a clear, simple statement of the primary problem with higher education:

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21567373-american-universities-represent-declining-value-money-their-students-not-what-it
Higher education
Not what it used to be

American universities represent declining value for money to their students

Dec 1st 2012
CHICAGO | from the print edition

ON THE face of it, American higher education is still in rude health. In worldwide rankings more than half of the top 100 universities, and eight of the top ten, are American. The scientific output of American institutions is unparalleled. They produce most of the world’s Nobel laureates and scientific papers. Moreover college graduates, on average, still earn far more and receive better benefits than those who do not have a degree.

Nonetheless, there is growing anxiety in America about higher education. A degree has always been considered the key to a good job. But rising fees and increasing student debt, combined with shrinking financial and educational returns, are undermining at least the perception that university is a good investment.

Concern springs from a number of things: steep rises in fees, increases in the levels of debt of both students and universities, and the declining quality of graduates. Start with the fees. The cost of university per student has risen by almost five times the rate of inflation since 1983 (see chart 1), making it less affordable and increasing the amount of debt a student must take on. Between 2001 and 2010 the cost of a university education soared from 23% of median annual earnings to 38%; in consequence, debt per student has doubled in the past 15 years. Two-thirds of graduates now take out loans. Those who earned bachelor’s degrees in 2011 graduated with an average of $26,000 in debt, according to the Project on Student Debt, a non-profit group.

More debt means more risk, and graduation is far from certain; the chances of an American student completing a four-year degree within six years stand at only around 57%. This is poor by international standards: Australia and Britain, for instance, both do much better.

At the same time, universities have been spending beyond their means. Many have taken on too much debt and have seen a decline in the health of their balance-sheets. Moreover, the securitisation of student loans led to a rush of unwise private lending. This, at least, has now been curbed by regulation. In 2008 private lenders disbursed $20 billion; last year they shelled out only $6 billion.

20121201_USC536.png


Despite so many fat years, universities have done little until recently to improve the courses they offer. University spending is driven by the need to compete in university league tables that tend to rank almost everything about a university except the (hard-to-measure) quality of the graduates it produces. Roger Geiger and Donald Heller of Pennsylvania State University say that since 1990, in both public and private colleges, expenditures on instruction have risen more slowly than in any other category of spending, even as student numbers have risen. Universities are, however, spending plenty more on administration and support services (see chart 2).

20121201_USC537.png


Universities cannot look to government to come to the rescue. States have already cut back dramatically on the amount of financial aid they give universities. Barack Obama has made it clear that he is unhappy about rising tuition fees, and threatens universities with aid cuts if they rise any further. Roger Brinner from the Parthenon Group, a consultancy, predicts that enrolment rates will stay flat for the next five to seven years even as the economy picks up. The party may be well and truly over.

Balloon debate

In 1962 one cent of every dollar spent in America went on higher education; today this figure has tripled. Yet despite spending a greater proportion of its GDP on universities than any other country, America has only the 15th-largest proportion of young people with a university education. Wherever the money is coming from, and however it is being spent, the root of the crisis in higher education (and the evidence that investment in universities may amount to a bubble) comes down to the fact that additional value has not been created to match this extra spending. Indeed, evidence from declines in the quality of students and graduates suggests that a degree may now mean less than it once did.

For example, a federal survey showed that the literacy of college-educated citizens declined between 1992 and 2003. Only a quarter were deemed proficient, defined as “using printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one’s goals and to develop one’s knowledge and potential”. Almost a third of students these days do not take any courses that involve more than 40 pages of reading over an entire term. Moreover, students are spending measurably less time studying and more on recreation. “Workload management”, however, is studied with enthusiasm—students share online tips about “blow off” classes (those which can be avoided with no damage to grades) and which teachers are the easiest-going.

Yet neither the lack of investment in teaching nor the deficit of attention appears to have had a negative impact on grades. A remarkable 43% of all grades at four-year universities are As, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960. Grade point averages rose from about 2.52 in the 1950s to 3.11 in 2006.

At this point a sceptic could argue that none of this matters much, since students are paid a handsome premium for their degree and on the whole earn back their investment over a lifetime. While this is still broadly true, there are a number of important caveats. One is that it is easily possible to overspend on one’s education: just ask the hundreds of thousands of law graduates who have not found work as lawyers. And this premium is of little comfort to the 9.1% of borrowers who in 2011 had defaulted on their federal student loans within two years of graduating. There are 200 colleges and universities where the three-year default rate is 30% or more.

Another issue is that the salary gap between those with only a high-school diploma and those with a university degree is created by the plummeting value of the diploma, rather than by soaring graduate salaries. After adjusting for inflation, graduates earned no more in 2007 than they did in 1979. Young graduates facing a decline in earnings over the past decade (16% for women, 19% for men), and a lot more debt, are unlikely to feel particularly cheered by the argument that, over a lifetime, they would be even worse off without a degree than with one.

Moreover, the promise that an expensive degree at a traditional university will pay off rests on some questionable assumptions; for example, that no cheaper way of attaining this educational premium will emerge. Yet there is a tornado of change in education that might challenge this, either through technology or through attempts to improve the two-year community college degree and render it more economically valuable. Another assumption, which is proved wrong in the case of 40% of students, is that they will graduate at all. Indeed, nearly 30% of college students who took out loans eventually dropped out (up from 25% a decade ago). These students are saddled with a debt they have no realistic means of paying off.

Some argue that universities are clinging to a medieval concept of education in an age of mass enrolment. In a recent book, “Reinventing Higher Education”, Ben Wildavsky and his colleagues at the Kauffman Foundation, which focuses on entrepreneurship, add that there has been a failure to innovate. Declining productivity and stiff economic headwinds mean that change is coming in a trickle of online learning inside universities, and a rush of “massive open online courses” (MOOCs) outside them. Some universities see online learning as a way of continuing to grow while facing harsh budget cuts. The University of California borrowed $6.9m to do this in the midst of a budget crisis. In 2011 about 6m American students took at least one online course in the autumn term. Around 30% of all college students are learning online—up from less than 10% in 2002.

Digital dilemmas

To see how efficient higher education can be, look at the new online Western Governors University (WGU). Tuition costs less than $6,000 a year, compared with around $54,000 at Harvard. Students can study and take their exams when they want, not when the sabbaticals, holidays and scheduling of teaching staff allow. The average time to completion is just two-and-a-half years.

MOOCs have also now arrived with great fanfare. These offer free college-level classes taught by renowned lecturers to all-comers. Two companies, Coursera and Udacity, and one non-profit enterprise, edX, are leading the charge. At some point these outfits will need to generate some revenue, probably through certification.

The broader significance of MOOCs is that they are part of a trend towards the unbundling of higher education. This will shake many institutions whose business model is based on a set fee for a four-year campus-based degree course. As online education spreads, universities will come under pressure to move to something more like a “buffet” arrangement, under which they will accept credits from each other—and from students who take courses at home or even at high school, spending much less time on campus. StraighterLine, a start-up based in Baltimore, is already selling courses that gain students credits for a few hundred dollars.

Some signs suggest that universities are facing up to their inefficiencies. Indiana University has just announced innovations aimed at lowering the cost and reducing the time it takes to earn a degree. More of this is needed. Universities owe it to the students who have racked up $1 trillion in debt, and to the graduate students who are taking second degrees because their first one was so worthless. They also bear some responsibility for the 17m who are overqualified for their jobs, and for the 3m unfilled positions for which skilled workers cannot be found. They even owe it to the 37m who went to college, dropped out and ended up with nothing: many left for economic reasons.

Universities may counter that the value of a degree cannot be reduced to a simple economic number. That, though, sounds increasingly cynical, when the main reason universities have been able to increase their revenue so much is because of loans given to students on the basis of what they are told they will one day earn.


There is a simple solution to this:

bell%20curve.PNG


High schools and universities grade on the bell curve.

Universities accept only C+ and above graduates from high school. Graduate and professional schools accept only C+ and above from universities. The A students get up to 100% of their tuition, books, other school fees and reasonable living expenses paid by the state, depending upon family income. The B students get up to 50% of their fees/expenses paid. Nothing for the C+ students (about 1/3 of the -C+ group or 22% overall).

Problem solved.
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"But wait," you say, "my little darling is a C student but I want him/her to go to university" ... "Tough," I reply, "the community college is just down the road, or there are opportunities for good, solid, well paid, respectable and fulfilling jobs through apprentice programmes."

 
GnyHwy: a few years ago math courses were required for almost all honours programmes in almost all major universities in Canada and the USA - even for history majors, who were expected to pass at least one statistics course to ensure they could interpret data. There were two exceptions in most Canadian universities: two faculties that thought that elementary math was either too hard for their students or just unnecessary - journalism and education.
 
Statistics was a prereq for Poli Sci when I went through UBC.
 
I found that the OAC Finite Mathematics course I took in the early 90's was an absolutely fundamental part of my education. I mean, how can you go through life without an understanding of probability and statistics? How would you even be able to gamble?

I remember that the old Ontario OAC program seemed to contain a decent amount of solid education, even the OAC French available in Ontario was a pretty solid base for when the army later taught me the French language. I'm not sure of the economics of why Ontario got rid of the OAC year, in favour of a 4 year high school program. Just like I'm not sure why Quebec has CEGEP. But I do wonder if we could remove from first year university some of the basic writing, basic statistics, and the shenanigans of just being an 18-year old, and move that level of education to the end of high school.
 
Eduction has been getting dumbed down since the 1960's, when fads like "Whole Language" and "New Math" took over the curriculum. Truthfully, I have no background into why these fads took over the educational establishment, but I can say that I am dependent on spell check to write and have difficulty doing math quickly (I have to wade through stuff the hard way, so it takes a while before I can call out "bullshit" on false or misleading numeric manipulation).

OTOH, I have seen examples of textbooks, lesson plans and curriculums from the late 1950's and early 1960's (and a few examples from even farther back), and I can say that the vast majority of students today would be totally unable to work at their grade level back then. This isn't just isolated to Ontario; Jerry Pournelle sometimes writes in his "Chaos Manor" blog about growing up in Rural Tennessee and the level of eduction received in a one room school house in the depths of the Great Depression. Another example is the "Federalist Papers"; a great primer on the development of the Republican model of US government was once taught at the High School level; now the Federalist Papers" are encountered at University, as they are considered "too hard" for a high school student today.

Unless you believe that human I.Q. has somehow diminished since the end of the Second World War, the problem is what is chosen as instructional material, and the standards used to evaluate teachers and students.
 
Thucydides said:
OTOH, I have seen examples of textbooks, lesson plans and curriculums from the late 1950's and early 1960's (and a few examples from even farther back), and I can say that the vast majority of students today would be totally unable to work at their grade level back then.

Well if you can say that then I guess I can say that you are full of shit,..................both my wife and I started doing volunteer stuff when my kids started school [17 years now] and I can say first hand that by about grade 7 I was lost on math, which, when I went to school, was always my strongest subject.
 
Ostrozac said:
I found that the OAC Finite Mathematics course I took in the early 90's was an absolutely fundamental part of my education. I mean, how can you go through life without an understanding of probability and statistics? How would you even be able to gamble?

Prob and Stats is something that the schools are teaching, and at a young age.  I certainly let the teachers know I am happy for that.  Something that wasn't taught when I was in grade school in the 70s. Teaching prob and stats is extremely important, especially in this age of information overload.  The problem is that the students can't do the multiplication and division required to calculate prob and stats. At least not without a calculator.  It's kind of crazy that they are teaching some fairly advanced concepts, but the students still don't know what 8x7 is.

Bruce Monkhouse said:
Well if you can say that then I guess I can say that you are full of crap,..................both my wife and I started doing volunteer stuff when my kids started school [17 years now] and I can say first hand that by about grade 7 I was lost on math, which, when I went to school, was always my strongest subject.

The methods used today have most certainly changed.  I consider myself strong in math, at least for army standards, but it is how they are asking the question now that is different, and that is what is flabbergasting parents. Their philosophy now seems to be that they want the students to explore different ways of solving in order to find out the best way for them.  I can get on board with this indirect approach sometimes, but sometimes writing out the times tables a couple dozen times is a good idea also.
 
Since my sample is the junior leadership and junior officer candidates that I have taught over the years, I can say with confidence that as the years pass they are less able to do course work (since the MLP's change at a fairly slow rate, I can see the amount of struggle increasing). If they have trouble doing military course work, then their educational grounding is insufficient.

Given the old high school texts and lesson plans were much more rigorous, then I stand on my conclusion that students who have difficulty doing "today's" work would be unable to do work at the equivalent grade level from the past.

As a BTW, I note that lots of things which were standard in the past like Languages (especially "dead" languages like Latin) are either optional or no longer taught at all.
 
GnyHwy said:
but sometimes writing out the times tables a couple dozen times is a good idea also.

...and maybe I've just been lucky that my kids went to full-French [not immersion] schools here in Ontario because that approach was always there.
 
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