TCAT-PCAT info and questions ( merged )

[Future Pensioner]

I am seeking some assistance from people on this forum for a rather complex situation that I am currently trying to grapple with.  Any assistance, advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you in advance.

BACKGROUND

-  I have been on class B for over 20 years.
-  Approximately 3 years ago, I was "diagnosed" with 2 specific medical conditions (that developed during my 20 years of class B service) which caused me to be placed on a TCAT.  After visits to a specialist and a few renewals of my TCAT, the MO finally recommended a PCAT.  My file was sent to Ottawa for review approx. 1.5 years ago.  It recently came back and I was assigned a PCAT and MELs which put me in breach of the Universality of Service.
-  My file has been sent to the Area HQ about a month ago for them to begin an AR to determine my “fate”.  I have been told by a number of sources that it is quite possible that I will be released 3b.  I have not yet heard from them in regards to it.
-  Recently, as a result of 2 units amalgamating, my current class B was terminated effective 31 Aug 12.
-  I applied for and was the successful candidate for one of the “new” class B position in the new “amalgamated” unit.  My Unit sent my name to Brigade as the successful candidate and requested auth from the Area to employ me on a 3 year class B contract, effective 01 Sep 12.

ISSUE

I have just been informed by Brigade, that I cannot be offered a new contract or given an extension of my current contract as I am on a PCAT that potentially puts me in breach of the Universality of Service and that I have not completed an EPRES test or BFT in a number of years (as a result of my medical conditions).  I have been informed that I am not being released and that I can continue to employed on class A service.

QUESTIONS

It appears to be that the only reason I am being denied a new contract/extension is due to my “disability”.  Is this possible?  Are there not policies in place to provide for extensions until the AR process has been completed and I am either released 3b or allowed to continue employment with ‘no career restrictions”?

Will it affect any “entitlements” if and when my 3b release comes, that I will, by then, be on class A service vice class B service?

 

[Haggis]

In that you applied for and won a competition for a "new" contract (your words), this is not an extension.    If you were being considered for extension in your old position number, then certain latitude exists for the chain of command to accomodate your medical condition until the AR-MEL decision is rendered.  You are not being extended if this is a "new" position with a new position number. You must meet all the requirements of the new position such as medical and physical fitness.

 

[Future Pensioner]

In that you applied for and won a competition for a "new" contract (your words), this is not an extension.    If you were being considered for extension in your old position number, then certain latitude exists for the chain of command to accomodate your medical condition until the AR-MEL decision is rendered.  You are not being extended if this is a "new" position with a new position number. You must meet all the requirements of the new position such as medical and physical fitness.

My apologies for the confusion.  Brigade has indicated that they will not offer a new contract AND they will not extend my current one to accomodate my medical condition until the AR-MEL decision is rendered.

 

[Haggis]

Brigade has indicated that they will not offer a new contract AND they will not extend my current one to accomodate my medical condition until the AR-MEL decision is rendered.

What Brigade should've said was " they cannot not offer a new contract because you do not meet the position requirements ......"

 

[Future Pensioner]

What Brigade should've said was " they cannot not offer a new contract because you do not meet the position requirements ......"

I appreciate the responses.  What about an extension of my current contract until the AR process is complete?

 

[Haggis]

I appreciate the responses.  What about an extension of my current contract until the AR process is complete?

It's about the position you are in now.  CF Mil Pers Instr 20-04 para 4.3 states:

"All reservists serving on a period of Class "B" Reserve Service shall be held against a Reserve Force Establishment position.  When the position has an expiration date, the duration of the Class "B" Reserve Service shall not extend beyond the expiration date."

So, if your current position ceases to exist on 31 Aug 12 due to the amalgamation you mentioned, then, no, you cannot be extended.

 

[Grunt_031]

Will it affect any “entitlements” if and when my 3b release comes, that I will, by then, be on class A service vice class B service?

I am pretty sure you will be on Class "Civi" Service. Release from the forces is to civi land. The only other option I can see is CIC service.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You'd think that after 20 years on Class B, you'd have had things sorted by now. Never knowing when the axe was going to fall, a backup plan should have been a priority.

Maybe if you'd spent those 20 years in the Regs........

I don't mean to sound crass, but 20 YEARS Cl B? I hope you have a civvie business or something going on the outside.

Good luck in your new career.

Hey, you can always buy back your pension, right?

 

[wesleyd]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If you cannot meet the universality of service requirements you can't be employed. PCAT most times is release, unless you can prove you are fit for service, this would include passing an Expres/BFT test. If your injuries were caused by service you may be intitled to some benifits from DVA. Good luck.

 

[fraserdw]

You got 20 years service, you should have a good pension if you bought back.  You are being released medically and if your condition is due to service you got another pension.  IF you have not bought back and your condition is not military related, then I hope you had a plan, you certainly had the time to plan.  The military is not a charity and do not listen to all that "look after the troops" crap, it only applies to hay box line ups and unit smoker beer issues.  The rest of your career is your own problem.

 

[DAA]

ISSUE

I have just been informed by Brigade, that I cannot be offered a new contract or given an extension of my current contract as I am on a PCAT that potentially puts me in breach of the Universality of Service and that I have not completed an EPRES test or BFT in a number of years (as a result of my medical conditions).  I have been informed that I am not being released and that I can continue to employed on class A service.

QUESTIONS

It appears to be that the only reason I am being denied a new contract/extension is due to my “disability”.  Is this possible?  Are there not policies in place to provide for extensions until the AR process has been completed and I am either released 3b or allowed to continue employment with ‘no career restrictions”?

Will it affect any “entitlements” if and when my 3b release comes, that I will, by then, be on class A service vice class B service?

The person has come here for advice, not to be slammed for what he did or didn't do with regards to career choices!  So here is my  :2c: on your issue:

a.  you need to look at what the original duration of the Class B offer was for (ie; how many years) and whether or not it included the opportunity for an extension, straight up or otherwise.  Class B positions have to be "re-advertised" at the time of their expiry but if an extension option is indicated, the max you can serve is 6 continuous years, after which, the position MUST be re-advertised;

b.  what I find strange, is that they are going to employ you on "Class A" as opposed to releasing you outright.  Something is definitely wrong with that picture.  If you can't do Class B due to medical, then you sure as heck can't do Class A either.  You may want to go and have a chat with your local JPSU/IPSC Unit as, believe it or not, they DO look after Reserve Force personnel.  This may be your only option for extending your period of service until an AR decision is rendered.  Regretably, pers on Class B do not have the same type of job protection afforded to a member of the Regular Force.

If you want "case specific" guidance/advice, PM me with your DWAN email and I will have a look at it.

 

[Future Pensioner]

DAA - thanks for your understanding of my post.

I have spoken with the IPSU and, regrettably, they were not much help with the specifics of remaining on full time service until the AR has been completed (at this time it has not even started yet). 

They were, however, helpful in providing some advice on what happens if and when I receive my 3b release, which I am grateful for.

I suppose my situation is mostly the result of "bad timing", but it would sure be nice if I could remain on "full time" service (either with and extension to my current contract or being offerred a new contract) until the AR is complete and a decision is made either way.

You also hit the nail on the head - it seems strange that they will let me continue to perform my job on class A with my current MELs, but not on class B.

 

[aesop081]

Having a valid PT test is a requirement for class B employment is it not ?

 

[Robert0288]

It has on any contract I've been on.  Also as far as I know Class A does not require a valid fitness test.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Thanks - I understand all the requirements in regards to fitness testing - but my MELs currently exempt me from fitness testing.

I am not looking at getting around any of the requirements, but as I understand it, this is what the AR is suppose to determine - what the MELs mean for my career.

 

[aesop081]

Thanks - I understand all the requirements in regards to fitness testing - but my MELs currently exempt me from fitness testing.

I am not entirely familiar with reserve issues and maybe i am looking at it wrong but since you are medically restricted from doing a fitness test, you do not have "pass" or "exempt" as a result and thus do not meet the requirement for class B employment.

No ?

 

[PuckChaser]

I am not looking at getting around any of the requirements, but as I understand it, this is what the AR is suppose to determine - what the MELs mean for my career.

Unfortunately, Cl B is rather heartless in this regard. They can't give you a new contract since you can't/don't have a PT test, regardless of the reason. If your AR comes back and allows you to complete a modified EXPRES or other acceptable fitness testing, I'm sure your unit would love to have your experience back. Until then though, looks like their hands are tied and you're out of a job.

 

[Paladium]

You case seems to be very tricky and you should talk tot the JPSU/IPSC again.

The problem as i see it is that when the decision comes down - do your entitlement differ because you are now no longer on Class B? you know having worked over 180 days on full time paid service.  Ask them as well if the release is medical will you have priority status for hiring into the Public Service and are you eligible for retraining (reg force members get 75% of their Pay for up to 2 years - maybe you are eligible.

Ask the JPSU if it is worthwhile contacting SISSIP.  Have you been sent your disclosure package from the Med Board in Ottawa yet.  DO you have a Case Manager - if not ask the JPSU/IPSC about that.

Go on a SCAN seminar in the fall - contact the BPSO office and see if they have any company looking for military employers.

Competing for a CIC position as was recommended earlier was a good one.

Find out if there are any implications due to your contract having ended and if so is there anything you can do about it?

Good luck

 

[George Wallace]

It has on any contract I've been on.  Also as far as I know Class A does not require a valid fitness test.

Yes and No.  LFCA has an on again, off again, policy that Class A should have completed a valid Fitness test.  At the same time, any Class A member who desires to go on any course, is required to have a up to date Fitness Test completed. 

So, in the end, if you want to progress and be employed in the Reserves, you should have completed a valid Fitness Test.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Having a valid PT test is a requirement for class B employment is it not ?

I've seen that rule shuffled around more than once.