Tan berets and other CANSOFCOM, JTF, and CSOR fashions [1st split: CSOR]
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Hey, the navy and the airforce don't want their people in the SOF community to wear their tan berets with their CFs. Something about diluting their traditional dress and identities... blah blah. Anyway, imagine the upset having a SOF capbadge and unique accoutrements would cause!
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aesop081
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signalsguy said:
427 SOAS seems to be doing fine with their tan berets......
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Not aloud to wear them with medals. For those occasions (other than the last CoC parade of course) it's the wedge. It's suposed to be an AF wide thing, but SARTECHs are permitted to wear their berets. In fact, it's suposed to be a Navy wide thing, but dress regs allow submariners to wear berets in all orders of dress when working off the boat, no matter their location.
Bit of a sore point with the non-army types. As if the black and blue uniforms don't give them away.
Bit of a sore point with the non-army types. As if the black and blue uniforms don't give them away.
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I don't know about that with serving just 3 years. Unless things have changed I know that with JTF2 once you are in - as an SOA anyways - you have the option of spending the rest of your career there if you choose. I don't see why it would be any different with Cat 1 operators in CSOR. I mean they spend all that time and resources training you to a high level I don't know why they would want to let you go after only 3 years. Could it only be 3 years for attached support/logistics staff like clerks?
I think that the rest of CANSOFCOM should probably stay as they are with their own uniforms, insignia, etc. However I think that those that are in CSOR that are actual special operators and not attached support staff should wear unique CSOR acoutrements. Like previously stated CSOR is a "regiment." For example a infantry battalion has clerks attached that could be from the navy or air force. While they are part of the unit they retain their uniforms while the infantrymen wear the regimental insignia. Yes CSOR is joint but so was the Airborne Regiment in a way. If you look at the example of the 22nd SAS anyone from pilot to cook can apply to become a trooper in that unit and once selected and trained successfully they wear their sand coloured beret with the winged dagger capbadge as long as they are in the SAS - on the rare occasions that they do wear dress uniforms. So in a way the SAS is also a joint unit. I don't see why Cat 1 CSOR operators shouldn't have a special capbadge at least to distinguish them from the clerks, cooks, or other logistics support staff attached to the unit since everyone in CANSOFCOM wears a tan beret.
I think that the rest of CANSOFCOM should probably stay as they are with their own uniforms, insignia, etc. However I think that those that are in CSOR that are actual special operators and not attached support staff should wear unique CSOR acoutrements. Like previously stated CSOR is a "regiment." For example a infantry battalion has clerks attached that could be from the navy or air force. While they are part of the unit they retain their uniforms while the infantrymen wear the regimental insignia. Yes CSOR is joint but so was the Airborne Regiment in a way. If you look at the example of the 22nd SAS anyone from pilot to cook can apply to become a trooper in that unit and once selected and trained successfully they wear their sand coloured beret with the winged dagger capbadge as long as they are in the SAS - on the rare occasions that they do wear dress uniforms. So in a way the SAS is also a joint unit. I don't see why Cat 1 CSOR operators shouldn't have a special capbadge at least to distinguish them from the clerks, cooks, or other logistics support staff attached to the unit since everyone in CANSOFCOM wears a tan beret.
McG
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Kev T,
"Joint" means the combination of two or more of Army, Navy & Air Force. The Airborne Regiment was not joint.
Unless the Army is to create a new occupation for CSOR, then members will have to leave regularly in order to develop & get promoted in their occupation.
"Joint" means the combination of two or more of Army, Navy & Air Force. The Airborne Regiment was not joint.
Unless the Army is to create a new occupation for CSOR, then members will have to leave regularly in order to develop & get promoted in their occupation.
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signalsguy said:
I tell you, after seeing a buddy of mine (navy type) in 3B's with his tan beret it looked pretty cool, (the navy cap badge looked like garbage on the beret) this is a unique regiment that needs/deserves to be set aside with thier own regimental traditions, and I saw somewhere in this thread a comment about the Boarding party badges - worst badge in NATO (and thier only to be worn by members of a boarding party, you come off the team off comes the badge, more of a unit Identifier than anything)
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Everyone also has to remember that it may take time to get a capbadge approved as well.No doubt it has to be politically correct here in Canada,and I'm wondering if it would also need Royal approval as with this for example:
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/rcrbadges/rcr-1894.htm
By the time a capbadge is developed,approved by Canadian standards then submitted for royal approval it could take years.
A good example of the time line taken could be found by looking at the dates we received our first Muslim/Jewish padre,to the creation of the new badges.
http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/rcrbadges/rcr-1894.htm
By the time a capbadge is developed,approved by Canadian standards then submitted for royal approval it could take years.
A good example of the time line taken could be found by looking at the dates we received our first Muslim/Jewish padre,to the creation of the new badges.
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Uhhh.. they were low on the muslim padre but, the 1st jewish padre was only recruited recently and the capbadge was waiting for him.... but I get your dirft.
If I go back to my 1st unit's history, they were raised in August of 1914 as the 14th BS CEF and received authorization for the name The Royal Montreal Regimetn in October 1914. They sailed for europe with their new cap badge.... so, if you want it bad enough, it can be done in record breaking time.
If I go back to my 1st unit's history, they were raised in August of 1914 as the 14th BS CEF and received authorization for the name The Royal Montreal Regimetn in October 1914. They sailed for europe with their new cap badge.... so, if you want it bad enough, it can be done in record breaking time.
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geo said:
I have yet to find anyone actually in SOFCOM who thinks this is even remotely an issue, let alone a priority
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the tan beret thing seems to go along the lines of the 1 SSF theme as well. We wore a winged dagger emblazoned "OSONS" I was told it meant "We Dare", go figure...SAS is a winged dagger...who dares wins....
I think command had a unique sense of one oneupmanship and competitiveness that is not normally seen in Canadian gov't and society when they adopted this. It was this whole scenario that created the necessary esprit de corp that is necessary to consider oneself 'special' or 'special forces'. Canada always seems to strive for second place and mediocrity on the global scene...1st place has too much lime light.
I think command had a unique sense of one oneupmanship and competitiveness that is not normally seen in Canadian gov't and society when they adopted this. It was this whole scenario that created the necessary esprit de corp that is necessary to consider oneself 'special' or 'special forces'. Canada always seems to strive for second place and mediocrity on the global scene...1st place has too much lime light.
I have seen several pictures of CSOR, MARSOC and US SF soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, and often they are not wearing helmet covers. Instead their helmets are painted tan or brown. Is there any reason for this? Or is it just SOF fashion?
As announced in the Canada Gazette, the GG has approved the Special Operations Basic Qualification Badge. I assume it will be worn in the same fashion as the SOAC badge.
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2009/2009-12-12/html/gh-rg-eng.html#c102
Here is an image that i obtained through the ATI on the conceptual design.
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2009/2009-12-12/html/gh-rg-eng.html#c102
Here is an image that i obtained through the ATI on the conceptual design.
M
MikeL
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Looks like it's quasi based off the First Special Service Force insignia
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jranrose said:As announced in the Canada Gazette, the GG has approved the Special Operations Basic Qualification Badge. I assume it will be worn in the same fashion as the SOAC badge.
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2009/2009-12-12/html/gh-rg-eng.html#c102
Here is an image that i obtained through the ATI on the conceptual design.
So we're saying that these guys are qualified SOBs?
