Tactical Paramedics

[nsmedicman]

Without violating OPSEC, do the RCMP ERTs have a tactical medical capability?

 

[Blackhorse7]

I'm not sure, to be truthful.  I don't think so, at least not in the traditional sense of being trained specifically for that purpose.  We do have EMT trained members that accompany teams.  They get some rudimentary tactical training, and some of the kit, but do not have to conform to the ERT physical requirements.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

A friend in the Dispatch business informs me that the EMS will dispatch their own tactical unit, who train with the ERT to a limited extent for familiarity purposes.

 

[Blackhorse7]

That's if you are somewhere that has a EMT Tactical unit.  To my knowledge, in all of BC there is no such thing (although there damned well should be...).

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

That's if you are somewhere that has a EMT Tactical unit.  To my knowledge, in all of BC there is no such thing (although there damned well should be...).

I'll take your word for it, as Im only speaking from my friend (I have no knowledge pertaining to the subject).

He is with Toronto EMS Dispatch, so I'll assume of all places, we'd have the capability.

 

[Bart Nikodem]

Here in BC the only Tactical Paramedic team I know of is in Sechelt, and it's not so much as a team as just me, and I'm not so much as a Tactical Paramedic as just a regular one so I guess BC really doesn't. OK that didn't further discussion at all. Can't say I didn't try.
Bart

 

[nsmedicman]

Correct me if I am wrong....but the only Tactical EMS programs in the country are in Toronto, Calgary and Edmonton? Forgive me if I excluded someone. I find it hard to believe that the RCMP wouldn't have some kind of capability in place. We have tried to develop a program here with the local municipal force, but have hit a few snags (it's not a high priority for them right now).

 

[Blackhorse7]

Hard to believe or not, the RCMP do not have a tactical medic program.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Hard to believe or not, the RCMP do not have a tactical medic program.

Well realistically, how high is the current requirement for them, in relation to other needs sitting on the RCMP's plate?

I can certainly see them being a valuable asset, but to what extent are they required, and how often would they be realistically filling a role that is simply not necessarily needed?

What difference does it make between a Medic team that is tactically sound and working right behind the ERT, in comparison to a regular EMS unit that follows up their movements?

I have no experience in this area, so bear with me and my ignorance. 

I guess this is my Army "do what you can with what you have, and deal with the needs, not the wants" attitude coming out.. 

 

[Thompson_JM]

Correct me if I am wrong....but the only Tactical EMS programs in the country are in Toronto, Calgary and Edmonton? Forgive me if I excluded someone. I find it hard to believe that the RCMP wouldn't have some kind of capability in place. We have tried to develop a program here with the local municipal force, but have hit a few snags (it's not a high priority for them right now).

Toronto has them yes, I also belive Halton region in ontario has them and Peel may or may not. (if they dont have them now I belive they are in the process of starting them up.)

It seems to be the new thing to get Tac-Paramedics, into the EMS world... Seems like a good Idea. since if nothing else, it just plain makes sense.

just a question to throw out there, would it be harder to impliment a Tac Medic Program with the RCMP or say OPP since they are such leage spread out Services as opposed to a smaller regional sevice. IE Halton Police TRU Team would train with Halton EMS. as opposed to say OPP TRU Team having to train with many different regional EMS teams.

I could be right out to lunch here, but i was just wondering if that might be the reason.

cheers
    Josh

 

[Blackhorse7]

Personally, I think the best thing they could do in the RCMP, is to take active ERT Team members, and cross train them.  They would be designated Paramedic members, but would also be active assaulters or snipers.  The problem is you would have to have several trained per team, in the event that one might not be on a call, or God forbid, one goes down on a job.

 

[Scott]

Personally, I think the best thing they could do in the RCMP, is to take active ERT Team members, and cross train them.  They would be designated Paramedic members, but would also be active assaulters or snipers.  The problem is you would have to have several trained per team, in the event that one might not be on a call, or God forbid, one goes down on a job.

Thought the Buffalo Squad had them ??? IIRC, the Tactical Troops I saw on the G8 in Kananaskis had them. We, the firefighters (Lazy guys), got good tours of all the gear and what those fellas do and I am almost certain that I recall a member mentioning that they had medics on the teams. Not ERT, but the Tactical Troops.

Blackhorse, we hung out almost the entire time with the Vancouver ERT and we discussed this at length, I am scartching my head now that you say there are no medic roles - or roles for members as medics. Not calling you out, just confused with my own memory... ;D

 

[Blackhorse7]

Vancouver ERT for obvious reasons, have better funding and a larger pool to draw from.  I can say for sure that the Prince George Team does not have Medics attached to them.

 

[nsmedicman]

The main idea behind TEMS (Tactical Emergency Medical Support) is, as the name states, to provide medical support to tactical unit or team. This includes support both between call-outs and during brief or extended operations, as well as training. This would also involve the possible treatment of downed members, suspects, victims and bystanders. TEMS paramedics also provide risk assessments to the team leaders, entailing what possible hazards (environmental, haz-mat) that the team could face. The paramedics are specialists, in a similar fashion that a sniper, negotiator or assaulter would be. They are trained to operate in a tactical environment, within the "hot zone". Traditional Emergency Medical Services are neither equipped or trained to function in this environment. They only enter a high-threat area under the cover of a gun team, when there is a immediate threat to life.

 

[JANES]

Correct me if I am wrong....but the only Tactical EMS programs in the country are in Toronto, Calgary and Edmonton? Forgive me if I excluded someone. I find it hard to believe that the RCMP wouldn't have some kind of capability in place. We have tried to develop a program here with the local municipal force, but have hit a few snags (it's not a high priority for them right now).

Ottawa City, no dedicated RCMP support

Personally, I think the best thing they could do in the RCMP, is to take active ERT Team members, and cross train them.  They would be designated Paramedic members, but would also be active assaulters or snipers.  The problem is you would have to have several trained per team, in the event that one might not be on a call, or God forbid, one goes down on a job.

Currency problems (kinda like an Army medic - they get very little hands on trauma)

Well realistically, how high is the current requirement for them, in relation to other needs sitting on the RCMP's plate?

I can certainly see them being a valuable asset, but to what extent are they required, and how often would they be realistically filling a role that is simply not necessarily needed?

What difference does it make between a Medic team that is tactically sound and working right behind the ERT, in comparison to a regular EMS unit that follows up their movements?

I have no experience in this area, so bear with me and my ignorance. 

I guess this is my Army "do what you can with what you have, and deal with the needs, not the wants" attitude coming out.. 

Huge, the four killed in Mayorthorpe, AB for starters. 

Regular EMS cannot "follow up their movements" they have to stay well down the road behind the security perimeter, so if an officer is wounded, it's a long haul to medical support.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Huge, the four killed in Mayorthorpe, AB for starters. 

Regular EMS cannot "follow up their movements" they have to stay well down the road behind the security perimeter, so if an officer is wounded, it's a long haul to medical support.

Dude. Rozko had an HK G3 IIRC. Even an ETF mbr would have some trouble going up against that...
the real question is, what was the response time for the ETF/TRU/ERU/ERT (whatever its called out there) to accually get on scene?
it was a small rural community... odds are even with Tac-Medics, a location like that, it would take a while for a Tac Team to respond right?
what i mean by that is: RCMP members, how long would it take for a TRU team to respond and deploy to a small town like that? realisticaly (without violateing OPSEC)

 

[Blackhorse7]

Hours.

 

[JANES]

Dude. Rozko had an HK G3 IIRC. Even an ETF mbr would have some trouble going up against that...
the real question is, what was the response time for the ETF/TRU/ERU/ERT (whatever its called out there) to accually get on scene?
it was a small rural community... odds are even with Tac-Medics, a location like that, it would take a while for a Tac Team to respond right?
what i mean by that is: RCMP members, how long would it take for a TRU team to respond and deploy to a small town like that? realisticaly (without violateing OPSEC)

What does Rozko's weapon have to do with anything?  What do you mean by trouble going up against it?  Are you talking about armor effectiveness or tactics and how does it relate to having medical support integral with the ERT team that responded?  My point is that response to a call like that, or any high risk warrant that ERT conducts should have integral medical support, or at least the members should be trianed in TCCC.  To say that they can rely on local paramedics is a bit naive. 

So are you asking the ERT response time, or a TEMS response time?

 

[HDE]

I'm not sure that the above case is indicative of much.  Unless we go on the premise that each and every call may be an ERT/Tac Medic operation it'd be just about impossible to have them all staffed appropriately.  No doubt 20/20 hindsight would have done things differently. 

 

[JANES]

Every ERT call is potentially a TEMS call, that is why it is important that medical support plan be in place before the operation (all of them) not when it's to late, during the op after the unthinkable has occured.