Tac Vests, Chestrigs and other Fighting Gear

[brucekie]

I've been watching the Combat camera videos recently of the ppcli in Afghanistan and notice a vast array of different fighing gear wore. I have bben looking on the internet at different gear mostly Molle. What I want to know is what gear in people oppinion is the best and where they purchased it or where I could buy it somewhere. I relise that when I'm training I might not be able to use it but If I go on deployment I would rather use something else then the tac vest with "the standard battle load of 4 mags, 2 grenades and 1 box of c9 ammo."

Moderator edit : corrected the thread topic

 

[PhilB]

There is so much out there you need to narrow down what you want a bit more. What weapons system are you planning on using? What is your price range? What sort of platform do you want to base it around? Go over to the lightfighter forum and do some research. If you want to keep it in Canada go take a look at CP Gear, Daves Army Surplus, Dropzone, or OneShot Tactical.

 

[brihard]

You're gonna get dogpiled by people telling you to search... Just so you have fair warning.

Wait out until you're slotted for a tour, and you show up at battallion. Find out what your role will be, and plan from there.

 

[PteGDD]

I've heard people smash CP Gear before, but I got to hand it to CP...They got a sweet Leg rig modular.  I have recently purchased one with extra mag pouches for use on OPFOR/Tour and it is GREAT.  The rig itself is of heavy duty good quality.  It holds 4 extra mags for me when I have extra mags, or as a dump pouch (instead of taking 5 extra seconds exchanging an empty mag for a full ones spot in my vest...or avoiding dropping it on the ground like they do overseas sometimes).  It can also hold my bayonet in there, but I got my field knive rigged in there instead.  I like it so much cause even when I run it doesn't fly around like you'd expect a rig off CP would.

PteG

 

[PhilB]

I've heard people smash CP Gear before, but I got to hand it to CP...They got a sweet Leg rig modular.  I have recently purchased one with extra mag pouches for use on OPFOR/Tour and it is GREAT.  The rig itself is of heavy duty good quality.  It holds 4 extra mags for me when I have extra mags, or as a dump pouch (instead of taking 5 extra seconds exchanging an empty mag for a full ones spot in my vest...or avoiding dropping it on the ground like they do overseas sometimes).  It can also hold my bayonet in there, but I got my field knive rigged in there instead.  I like it so much cause even when I run it doesn't fly around like you'd expect a rig off CP would.

PteG

you want to be careful carrying so many mags on your legs. It REALLY starts to suck after you carry them for a while, and it is extremely un practical in vehicles. Also "overseas" you dont drop your mags on the ground just as you dont drop your mags on the ground in Canada. Invest in a proper dump pouch (CP Gear has a really nice one) and train with it. Whether here or in A'Stan you shouldnt drop mags.

 

[PteGDD]

Guys I know have dropped mags, SOMETIMES, I said.  It's for a faster reload on the run obviosuly.  Any other time it is done tactically and there's no need to drop one. 

 

[Sig_Des]

Guys I know have dropped mags, SOMETIMES, I said.  It's for a faster reload on the run obviosuly.  Any other time it is done tactically and there's no need to drop one. 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you don't need to tell Phil about mag changes.

 

[PhilB]

As I said, buy a proper dump pouch and train with it. It is just as fast as dropping a mag. If you are planning on deploying I strongly recommend you get one, and invest the money in a full on modular rig instead of cheaping out on a leg rig for your extra mags. You will thank yourself in the long run. If you wait out a month or so CP Gear will be coming out with their new MOFOCR rig and will be offering it in packages set up based on weapons system (dont quote me but I'm pretty sure the C7/C8 based rigs will include one of their lobster trap dump pouches)

Brucekie and other guys that are planning on going on TF 1-08 (which is what I assume you guys are talking about) wait out until you find out what weapon system you are going to be using and then purchase a rig. Modular rigs, while expensive are great because you can set them up as you see fit. There are a lot of great rigs out there offered by many of the excellent companies on this board (Daves Army Surplus and OneShot Tactical to name a few). I am partial to a modular set up myself as it is the most flexible. The cost of the rigs and confusion comes with the pouches. What pouches to get? What works good? Where should I put the pouches on the rig? Also by virtue of the fact that the majority of kit has to be bought online. If you aren't familiar with kit it can be a daunting process. Not to be overly pro CP Gear ;D but I know they have plans to visit the major units in the TF sometime during workup trg with samples of their rigs. I think this will be a great way to buy as you can try it out first. Also they will be offering "packages" which will include the full pouch set needed for a weapons system and the base rig. I think this will eliminate a lot of the confusion in purchasing a rig. Just keep in mind you get what you pay for. Dont cheap out, or look for the "good enough" solution. Your life is going to depend on the rig so spend the cash. Hopefully this helps someone.

 

[PteGDD]

I have seen the lobster dump pouch before, I wouldn't mind it for overseas.  But this all goes back to an individual preference.  I find with a dump pouch, at the end of the day you still got to fish for that mag with 5 or 6 rounds left.  With my extra pocket I know what has them.  I'm not overseas yet, and I do know I love my leg rig...I wouldn't say I'd cheaped out.  I shot with it, rolled around...never has it gave me a charlie horse In terms of being in vehicles?  Yeah there is better rigs out there, but then again I'm LI and the only cadillac I'm riding in is my blacks.

 

[PhilB]

PteGDD,

You need to read more and write less. Right now, in Canada you are Light Infantry, but the moment you get overseas you will be mounted in some kind of vehicle. Hopefully you have heard the euphemism train as you fight. If a piece of kit isnt going to work that well overseas then why train with it at home, particularily when you are training to go overseas. A leg mounted set of pouches can be comfortable if it is light i.e. and IFAK or pistol. M203 rounds, four fully loaded rifle mags etc are heavy. If you are wearing the rig for long periods of time (read more than the length of a normal ex) they become a huge pain in the ass, and extremely fatiguing on your legs. As for the dump pouch you are right, it is personal preference. The being said the idea of a dump pouch is so that you have a place to put your mags without looking, and or fucking around. I guarantee you replacing magazines in a magazine pouch takes longer than throwing them in a dump pouch. Additionally if you are replacing partially full, of empty magazines in magazine pouches there is a chance, and it may sound stupid but believe me it can happen, that you will draw an empty, or partially empty mag when you need a full one. Now I am not an expert, there are many guys out there with WAY more experience than me (Kevin I'm looking at you) but I have used most of this kit in theater, and I am a self professed kit whore. Take my suggestions for what their worth, agree or disagree, it is up to you.

 

[PteGDD]

I see what you are saying and you make excellent points.  Training the way you fight is key, I used to carry my knive hidden on my belt in garrison just so I'm comfortable with it in the field.  When I do go overseas, I will spend the bucks...I am too a guy that loves his kit if you haven't already figured.  I'm obviously not going to buy desert cam kit to train in Canada on weekends or on postings.  I also still have to worry about a little uniformity too as I'm a Pte, going on Cpl and PLQ soon, so why rig up everything if I got to tear it all down for course.  When training the way you fight counts is most important during workup training, for now I'll stick to my TW cam.  lol I know you'll say suit yourself, but I argree when you say train as you fight.

PS-How do you know so much on CP Gear?  I'm not a fan on getting anymore news letters then I got to, but you raise some interesting items I might want to take a look at and check out.

 

[Sig_Des]

CP Gear is a sponsor of Army.ca, and Matt Fisher keeps good updates.

A search of CPGear Might turn this up:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/53469/post-521889.html#msg521889

 

[warchild]

From personal experience I agree with alot of the above with a few things to add.  My personal experience was that I went through 3 different rigs over there.  I had to start, the Brit style chest rig.  I also bought a leg rig.  For the first week in KAF it was OK but when we went outside the wire the leg rig got hooked up on everything in the LAV.  (Alot of guy's that continued to wear one after a few months of heat the elastic or Velcro would give way, sometime at the worst time as one of my Sgt's found out leaving a PB)  Launched the leg rig.  LCF.  Kept the chest rig for a little while then picked up a TAC TAILOR chest rig from a yank that was rotating out.  Durring this time we were up in Gumbad alot and in the hills (Bellybutton)  I found the TAC rig to be great especially the pouches for mags and grenades.  I did not like putting the rig up over my head and down.  It gets a bit much with the camel back on.  To be worn comfortably it needs to be tight.  This made it hard to "Doff and don" the rig.  Durring this time I was now ridding in a LAV or RG-31. 

I kept this rig till before July (Panjwai, Helmand Prov)  Just before I switched to a plate carrier that I bought at the Hogie sew on the board walk.  It was very basic and MOLLIE.  I took my mag and grenade pouches off my TAC TALIOR, my first aid pouch and put it on the plate carrier.  At this time I was now in a G WAG.  Before anyone gets in a snit, I wore the flack jacket still with the plates in it not the carrier.  I found fighting with the carrier the best.  Everything was in my center of mass, it was very easy to move fast with it and it was a snap to put on very quickly.  The only thing that sucked was that the wrap straps were Velcro and again in heat and with sweat Velcro does not work. (As you can see in 2 Pl footage on youtube and combat camera).  Clips solved the problem.

So for my 2 cents worth to sum up, go with something modular that you can evolve with over the course of the tour.  Put some thought into it by finding out about the durability of the kit.  TAC TAILOR makes there stuff with good quality material and stitching.  You can not believe what the mountans will do to your kit till you live it.  Spend the cash on good equipment.  Don't go cheap.  If it is to much for your pay scale talk to you parents or spouse and ask for an early Xmas gift or b day gift. "Don't you want me to come home etc". 

Just because you go over a C-7 #3 rifleman, remember people can and will get hurt or killed there.  You may start out with a C-7 then end up being a M 203 gunner(Get the M-203 belt that goes around your waist, it saved a yank from a bullet), then become a C-9 gunner.  In my Pl I had to switch guy's around alot due to IED's and cas.  I rode in everthing from a Chinook to a G Wag with all types of gear.  I found the plate carrier to be the best for being modular.  I could change something if I did not like it where it was (PRR, 521).  To be flexable is to be comfortable.

 

[PhilB]

The WO knows what hes talking about (he is one of the "more expert" people I was referring to earlier). I ran a tactical tailor MAV on 1-06. I found some things i liked, and some things I didnt. For this tour I am planning on going over with an Eagle Plate Carrier with an assortment of pouches. I am also planning on bringing/ using a CP Gear MOFOCR if I am a C9 gunner (right now this seems like the most likely option). You dont need to buy two rigs but as the WO said modular will allow you to adjust. It is not hard to pick up pouches over there in the PX also off yanks rotating home or from other guys with modular rigs. Spend the money up front, do the research, buy good quality kit.

 

[MJP]

+1 Piper good idea.  I've seen it done on other boards and used them to do my research for my rig for TF1-06.

 

[KevinB]

warchild hit the important points.

 I've run about 7 different setups (well 8 if you include the webbelt with wattle bottle and bayonet in Cyprus - no mags or nothing ;D)
Its all about your role, and your personal comfort level.

I've found its near impossible to do somethings in some gear -- where they will work for other roles.



 

 

[brihard]

If I may, I'd like to make a suggestion.

I, like many others on the site have a 'fair' idea of how the issued kit works in Canada. But I, like many others here, know S-F-A about issued/non-issued kit on ops.

Maybe, if the posters here who have been on ops and the mods would take the time, we could sticky an entire thread of kit overseas. What worked for certain people, what didn't etc. Use pics and stuff if it would add to the descriptions. It would then be locked to keep certain posters known to frequent the kit forums with questionable info and other people from posting 'chaf'. If someone has something to add, send it to a mod.

I know it sounds like alot of work, but it would be VERY useful to those of us with no experience with kit overseas and especially for those who are deploying in the near future.

Just a thought, because I know alot of posters (PhilB, Infidel6 if he's still around, warchild etc) have OUTSTANDING info that could and should be shared without other posters making out-to-lunch comments or questioning their experience. 

Bloody good idea, IMO. For those of us scoping out a tour and trying to figure out what we should be looking for, the plethora of threads on this subject makes for some aggravating research. On top of that, limiting it to those who have been on tour will help separate the wheat from the chaff.

Regarding the new CP gear rig- Please don't take this as a slam, as it's not, but CP gear's reputation in the past few years has been that they make decent 'useful' kit, but should not be relied on for load carriage or other things you'll stake your life on. Is that no longer a valid reputation? Is the new stuff durable and comfortable enough to be compared to the other high end aftermarket kit out there? I see a couple people here saying they're going to pick up the new CP gear rig, and it's got me curious. I'm not against spending enough money to get the right kit, but if I can save money without compromising performance, that's of interest to me as well...

 

[PhilB]

I think Piper's idea is bang on. I would be more than willing to throw up some reviews of the kit and my opinion of what works. I think that the key is to have varied and diverse opinions because with load bearing gear there is no "right answer" every different person and every different job will be different.

In reference to CP Gear I agree with what you were saying Brihard. CP, has in the past not had the best reputation for producing load bearing equipment. Recently CP hired Matt Fisher (hes on the board) to help develop a new line of load bearing kit. He has a lot of operational experience with the Marines in Iraq and has enlisted the opinions and suggestions of some of the kit guys on this and a couple other boards. I have seen some of the designs that CP is coming out with and am extremely impressed. They are well though out and are being tailored to Canadian load bearing needs, which is what I think sets them apart from some American companies whose kit is tailored to their market, the American military. In terms of quality, from the pieces that I have handled I would, and have, put them right up next to any of the Eagle, tactical tailor, or HSGI kit that I have. (I think the picture in the CP Gear thread in the sale forum where Matt is hanging from the drag handle of a MOFOCR rig speaks for itself in terms of quality of construction). Just a note for calrification as lately I seem to be singing a lot of CP Gear praises, I do not work for CP Gear, but have given them some input into some of their new kit. I am signing their praises because I believe that the kit they are coming out with is quality stuff that will be useful, and cost effective for guys deploying overseas.

 

[RHFC_piper]

I think Piper's idea is bang on. I would be more than willing to throw up some reviews of the kit and my opinion of what works. I think that the key is to have varied and diverse opinions because with load bearing gear there is no "right answer" every different person and every different job will be different.

I agree on all counts.

Perhaps a 'Kit Review' thread from, as Piper put it, those who have deployment / operational experience.

Also, personal tactical kit is just that; Personal.  As PhilB put it, kit is diverse, as are the opinions about it and its employment.  This is where just a simple kit review might be better.

Just a thought.

 

[riggermade]

Personally I don't think you are going to find an easy solution to come up with a discussion on gear.  Every soldier I have ever dealt with has a different idea of what works and what is comfortable, what should be placed where and how much and what ammo do I want to carry.

Take what the experienced end users have to say, realizing that is what has worked for them, do your research on the companies out there as there is a big difference in the cost of some items and go from there.

The big thing I think you will get from all is train with what you intend on using when you are in the breach.

And before any of you get onto me about experience no I have not used the gear in combat but i have dealt with alot of soldiers and modified alot of kit, issued and non-issued, and I have seen alot of the crap some guys buy thinking they are getting a deal only to have it fall apart after one exercise