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Swiss voters favour Islamic Minaret ban for local buildings

I took a break from replying, right after I read the post about Minarets being symbols of Islamic political power.  (Before I reply now, Vern put some very good points out there, and her posts should be read to keep everyone focused).  Anyway, no matter the source or origin of the minaret, I understand that it is associated with Islam.  Just as the Steeple is associated with Christianity.  Now, tell me, does the Roman Catholic Church not have power?  The Vatican has embassies in many nations in the world, and the former pope is credited with lighting the spark that brought down the East Bloc!  Remember, I'm a practicing RC myself when I say that!


Now, for the allusion between now and the early 20th Century Europe, the similarities between now in CH and then in DE are all too similar.  So, Godwin is quite appropriate here.

Banning Minarets does nothing but piss off Moslems, and it should also piss off any person of faith.  That's my $0.02 worth.
 
Over 100,000 people signed a petition. 2.67 million people voted. It went to referendum, and they won.

Anyway P.C win's.

Swiss are xenophobic racists. All 57.5% of voters.
 
X-mo-1979 said:
Many of out older church's had bell towers. Now we see many church buildings which look more like office buildings, as "bell's to summon" are pretty obsolete. So what purpose does the minaret's actually serve?  The call to prayer is not done by the Imam in the tower. Infact in Switzerland the call to prayer is not done at all,due to city bylaws on noise.
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What city would that be?  From my time in Zurich, the church bells chimed on the hour every hour.  Longer at prayer times.
 
I'm hoping that no one here under actually suffers from any delusions that would have them believing that the SVP Party (who tabled and ran with this bill) is a centralist party; they are ultra-right wing & they have garnered themselves some more votes in the next national election by picking up on the sentiments of the past decade or so (but sentiments which the party themselves has held for decades). Just google some of their 2007 election adds if you think they aren't harbouring any outright racial overtones. Also on their agenda: ban Muslim cemetaries in Switzerland.

Yep, this one was won by a vote in the referendum but after googling their campaign ads and website, I can only refer back to a quote I've heard before:

Sometimes the test of a true democracy is by how well it protects the rights of it's minorities.

You won't get any of that with this lot.

PS: The noise ban is not applicable to churches; funny that.
 
There was a two year or more legal tussle in St. Catherines over a 17 floor condo they are going to build on the Lakeshore.  People filed complaints saying it didn't fit in with the architecture.  MacDonald's wasn't allowed to build in Rome because Golden arches didn't fit in with The Trevi Fountain so they had to compromise.  Minarets do not fit in with most Europena architecture.  In Canada it doesn't matter much because, with the exception of some Maritime villages and those curved metal staircases in Montreal we don't have any distinctive urban architecture.  (I forgot to include our barns and privies in that list). 

Bell towers were not initially part of the church per se but were constructed with the principle function of an alarm plus they served as a blockhouse for defense.  Since the church was usually the most substantial building in town it only made sense to combine the two functions.  Steeples on the other hand were purpose built to point to Heaven. 

If the purpose of the ban is to promote architectural purity then maybe the eastern folks need to adopt a slightly different style of architecture to blend in.  If they want to stay with the minaret shape they are basically saying in your face and the Swiss are fully within their rights to say not our face you don't.  If we are supposed to be tolerent of others'feelings it is equally correct that the newcomers, as welcome additions, need to conform slightly to ours. 
 
NL_engineer said:
What city would that be?  From my time in Zurich, the church bells chimed on the hour every hour.  Longer at prayer times.
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When I was in Italy it was ever 15 minutes. One bell for quarter after, two for the half-hour, three for the 45 minute mark and the hour depending on what hour it was (e.g) 12 midnight X 12 bells).
 
Retired AF Guy said:
When I was in Italy it was ever 15 minutes. One bell for quarter after, two for the half-hour, three for the 45 minute mark and the hour depending on what hour it was (e.g) 12 midnight X 12 bells).
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One of the churches next to my hotel in Zurich was like that  ::)  Nothing better then having to listen to a bell chime for 10 freaking min at 9 am on a Saturday, after crawling into bed only hours earlier (quite drunk I should add)  ::).
 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jEtHJMaOboide2wITSxabVwvHTYg

Swiss businessman builds minaret in protest
(AFP) – 23 hours ago

BUSSIGNY, Switzerland — A Swiss businessman appalled by his fellow countrymen's decision to ban minarets has extended a chimney above his company building into a minaret in protest.

"It was scandalous that the Swiss voted for the ban. Now we have the support of all the far-right parties across Europe. This is shameful," Guillaume Morand, who owns a chain of shoe stores, told AFP.

The businessman, who is not a Muslim, explained that the he had constructed the mock minaret at his building near western Switzerland's city of Lausanne in protest, and at the same time, to "send a message of peace."

More than 57 percent of voters upset opinion polls and defied their government by approving the right wing motion to ban minarets -- the turrets or towers on mosques from which Muslims are called to prayer.

The outcome of the referendum brought by members of the hard-right Swiss People's Party (SVP) and other right wing groups was also hailed by anti-immigrant party leaders elsewhere in Europe.

Morand blamed other political parties in Switzerland for not having campaigned against the far-right motion ahead of the referendum.
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More at link.
 
When a vote goes the way someone likes it's social justice.
When it doesn't go how they like they cry foul.

Maybe the swiss are just trying to avoid this.

tolerance-done-wrong.jpg
 
Flawed Design said:
When a vote goes the way someone likes it's social justice.
When it doesn't go how they like they cry foul.

Maybe the swiss are just trying to avoid this.

tolerance-done-wrong.jpg
Click to expand...

I'd like to avoid "this" as well; but there are ways to do that without invoking "collective punishment" that inludes the 99.5% who are not radical extremeists no? If the Swiss were actually at war - that'd be illegal.

 
Here's something going on where I live:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/12/04/20091204phx-ntemple1205.html
 
Michael O'Leary said:
Mormon Church, North Phoenix, (Google Maps)
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Fairly scrawny trees in an arid region.  Not even twenty feet high.  I don't see how the Church can rationalize planting trees to "obscure" a 126 foot Temple; unless they expect the residents in the surrounding single level dwellings to walk up and hug a tree (ie.  Face plant into a tree trunk).
 
muskrat89 said:
Here's something going on where I live:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/12/04/20091204phx-ntemple1205.html
Click to expand...

I was about to ask the same question as George!! Big trees around there I guess!! Is there some little-known & obscure bylaw in Phoenix that allows for bypassing of height restrictions should the builder "obscure the view with trees"?? A loophole that the Mormons are using to their advantage so to speak?

Just to be clear - I'm not saying the Swiss should just "allow" minarets; I've said before in this thread, that if the problem with the minaret is actually one of "not blending in" with the local architecture ... that that can be solved with building guidelines just as some jurisdictions in Australia have done.

I've no issues with pers in Phoenix wishing to see a structore more in keeping with the local architecture and height requirements; nor would I have any such issue if that's what the Swiss had went for. Phoenix residents also seem to expect public safety concerns due to traffic flow to the area of this temple - that doesn't seem to be the case in Switzerland.

They, though, went with an outright banning of a minaret while steeples are still permitted - just as their noise ban is applicable only to Muslim call to prayer (issued 5 times per day), but not to the peeling of church bells on the hour every hour (in some cases marking every half hour - some even marking every quarter hour).

The SVP (the ultra-right wing party who managed to rise the "masses" to this latest ban) has also indicated that they wish to see a ban on Muslim cemetaries in Switzerland in the future ... that certainly seems like a case of "not here ... not by you people".
 
Why is it so hard to understand that the Swiss want Swiss cities to look Swiss, not Iranian, Jordanian, or Saudi Arabian?  Christian churches have been an integral part of life in Switzerland since the year dot.  They are as much a part of the landscape as the Alps, clock shops and chocolate factories.
 
the 48th regulator said:
Google Map Street View of the Church.
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Like I said; unless you are doing a faceplant into a tree trunk, those trees don't hide anything.  Try moving out a block or two and the current church is twice the height of the trees easily.........and they want to enlarge the church making it higher.
 
Kat Stevens said:
Why is it so hard to understand that the Swiss want Swiss cities to look Swiss, not Iranian, Jordanian, or Saudi Arabian?  Christian churches have been an integral part of life in Switzerland since the year dot.  They are as much a part of the landscape as the Alps, clock shops and chocolate factories.
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Don't forget those neat knives that have all sorts of doo hickeys.  Always remember the doo hickeys.

dileas

tess
 
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