Swiss voters favour Islamic Minaret ban for local buildings

[CougarKing]

Thoughts, anyone?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/091129/world/switzerland_referendum_islam_religion

  Voters in a referendum on Sunday voted in favour of imposing a blanket ban on the building of minarets in Switzerland, public television reported, citing exit polls.

With ballot-counting still underway, the exit polls suggested that the proposal -- put forth by far-right politicians -- enjoyed around 59 percent support.


(...)

Partial results also showed that Lucerne is for the ban, while French-speaking cantons Geneva and Vaud are against.


The Swiss People's Party (SVP) -- Switzerland's biggest party -- had forced a referendum under Swiss regulations on the issue after collecting 100,000 signatures within 18 months from eligible voters.

(...)

 

[vonGarvin]

Wow.....just wow.


I don't know what to say...

 

[brihard]

Wow.....just wow.


I don't know what to say...

I view this with the same contempt I view Islamic countries not allowing the construction of churches. It's stupid, bigoted and reactionary.

I have no personal use for organized religion of any sect or denomination, but it should be left alone so long as there's no active incitement to hatred. The Swiss are just alienating Muslims with this, and probably generating new enemies.

 

[old medic]

It's not just the Swiss.  This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone following European politics.

The Swiss People's Party (SVP) -- Switzerland's biggest party

  is the biggest party in the country
by vote, seats and popular support.

 

[brihard]

I'm not saying I'm surprised, just that I'm disgusted. There seems to be massive, systemic Islamophobia throughout Europe.

I'm not saying that I'm in favour of all parts of traditional Islamic culture. Far form it. But government actions like this are just going to continue to contribute to tension. Muslims in Europe need to be engaged by states, not vilified. At the same time, Muslim immigrant populations need to realize that there are certain standards of rights and equality that they need to adhere to as well when they immigrate to the west.

The trouble here is that both sides are trying to preserve their own cultures intact instead of realizing that some degree of fusion is not only inevitable, but is probably also safest.

 

[NL_engineer]

I would have never thought the Swiss would do this (not going to add my personal opinion); When I was there I got the impression they are more Political Correct then us.

 

[Redeye]

Actually, the Swiss are pretty much the most un-PC people you'll meet overall.  The SVP in particular has made no secret of its views of any minority group in Switzerland - and their advertising pushes a lot of boundaries.  They ran an ad during the last elections there which featured a bunch of white sheep and a black sheep, I wish I could remember the slogan.  They're populists who want to keep Switzerland for the Swiss.  It's not hard to do, either, given that obtaining Swiss citizenship as an immigrant is very, very difficult and takes a very long time (depending on the canton you live in).

Switzerland's government system is very interesting and allows things like this to happen easily.  If you can get 10,000 signatures to put an issue to referendum within 18 months, just about anything can be done there.  It's very much set up to allow the people to exercise their sovereignty directly - the confederal government looks after very, very little with most powers held at cantonal level, and in many cantons virtually everything is decided by direct democracy.

I agree, though, that this decision was stupid - trying to integrate newcomers rather than ostracize them is far better.  Interesting the Catholic Church in Switzerland came out heavily opposed to this.

I would have never thought the Swiss would do this (not going to add my personal opinion); When I was there I got the impression they are more Political Correct then us.

 

[mariomike]

They ran an ad during the last elections there which featured a bunch of white sheep and a black sheep, I wish I could remember the slogan. 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2625385.ece

"Swiss voters' clear decision on Sunday to ban the construction of minarets has generated a wide range of emotions, from stunned joy to rueful concern":
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/Minaret_result_seen_as_turning_point.html?siteSect=105&sid=11554254&rss=true&ty=st&ref=ti_spa

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Hey, if a majority of the people vote against it, I don't think they really care if they upset those opposed.  Its their country.  If they don't want say, ice cream stands, and vote against it in a majority, well of course anyone who likes ice cream will be upset.

They voted, the vote speaks for the majority.  I say good on them for standing up for what they want.  I don't want people who smoke dope in my house.  All that makes me is someone who doesn't like dope smokers.  Thats my choice...same principle with this IMO.

Now I'll sit back and wait for someone to call me a racist of anti-something or other...

 

[Kat Stevens]

I'm not saying I'm surprised, just that I'm disgusted. There seems to be massive, systemic Islamophobia throughout Europe.

I'm not saying that I'm in favour of all parts of traditional Islamic culture. Far form it. But government actions like this are just going to continue to contribute to tension. Muslims in Europe need to be engaged by states, not vilified. At the same time, Muslim immigrant populations need to realize that there are certain standards of rights and equality that they need to adhere to as well when they immigrate to the west.

The trouble here is that both sides are trying to preserve their own cultures intact instead of realizing that some degree of fusion is not only inevitable, but is probably also safest.

Have you spent any real time in Europe?  I'm not talking about a 3 week HLTA train junket to 17 cities in 14 days kind of thing.  In Britain, non muslims of all races and creeds are harrassed on the streets, bullied, spit on, and generally treated like filth in their own homeland.  Mosques in London are a breeding ground for terrorists. We all know how well large groups of North African muslims behaved in Paris a while back.  The fear of Europe becoming an islamic caliphate is very real to the people who live there.

 

[vonGarvin]

Now, this would not happen in Canada, because we are a Liberal Democratic nation, which essentially prevents the majority from doing such things to the minority.

Interesting the Catholic Church in Switzerland came out heavily opposed to this.

  I wasn't surprised in the slightest.  The Roman Catholic Church is no longer the church of the Crusades.  Also, as an interesting point for those who don't know, Christianity, Islam and Judaism are what are called "Abrahamic Religions".  In short, they all worship the same God, and the virgin Mary is mentioned in the Koran more often than in the New Testament.  Islam, Christianity and Judaism are very close in morals, belief structures, and the like.

 

[Redeye]

The Catholic Church's statement was something to the effect of stating that they didn't support the diminishing of any religion and felt it was important to encourage dialogue, etc etc.  Was well put together.

As for the fact that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God, trying to explain that to some of the more extremist evangelical set (particularly it seems some of my in-laws and their friends) is not as easy as you'd think.  They just don't seem to get it.  Most educated folks seem to though.

Now, this would not happen in Canada, because we are a Liberal Democratic nation, which essentially prevents the majority from doing such things to the minority.
  I wasn't surprised in the slightest.  The Roman Catholic Church is no longer the church of the Crusades.  Also, as an interesting point for those who don't know, Christianity, Islam and Judaism are what are called "Abrahamic Religions".  In short, they all worship the same God, and the virgin Mary is mentioned in the Koran more often than in the New Testament.  Islam, Christianity and Judaism are very close in morals, belief structures, and the like.

 

[sm1lodon]

Well, the people of that country have spoken, I guess.

 

[krustyrl]

Loud and Clear.!

 

[X-mo-1979]

It's not just the Swiss.  This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone following European politics.
  is the biggest party in the country
by vote, seats and popular support.

Absolutely.

People have a problem with Islam ideology, not muslims in Europe.

Living with this crap:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224153/Burq-ingham-Palace-Hate-preacher-calls-Queen-wear-Muslim-dress.html#

is the norm in most of europe lately. It's only a matter of time before the majority says enough.

Google islam/ a european country and it's the same stories.

Good for the majority.

 

[krustyrl]

My eyes opened a bit wider now... things that make you go hmmmmm..??

 

[The Bread Guy]

It's not just the Swiss.  This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone following European politics.

Too true - here's an Italian right-wing party's poster that caught my eye last year during the election campaign:

Translation:  "They couldn't control immigration, now they live on reserves"
And this little number:

"Yes to our (traditional northern Italian) cornmeal mush, no to couscous - proud of our traditions"
(This party has at least one cabinet minister in the Berlusconi coalition, BTW).

Also, another billboard from the Swiss Peoples Party:

 

[mariomike]

"Wait a minaret!: Swiss ban on Muslim prayer towers not driven by hate":
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/michael_coren/2009/12/05/12048301-sun.html

 

[vonGarvin]

That swiss ad reminds me of some similar European ads, about 70 years ago or so:

"The Poison Mushroom"
"Stories by Ernst Zimmer, artwork by "Fins"

 

[X-mo-1979]

Last time I checked ARD-10 isnt driving around getting ready for the "final solution". There was a democratic vote where muslims are still allowed to practice their religion in Mosques they just banned minarets.

Must be nice to live in a country where the majority isnt trying to play nice with every minority and special interest group.Where the majority doesnt feel a social stigma to actually say what they feel.


Maybe this will be the start to the death of political correctness.