- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Thanks. Does anyone know if there is any change for first year at RMC since most cadets won't be going to IAP this summer?
Subsidized Education - ROTP
- Thread starter jwsteele
- Start date
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 432
- Points
- 910
Well the thread's been dead for a while but I have to get my 2 cents in, I just have to.
On the topic of skipping classes, I'm probably the guy you all hate, and I'm positive I'm going to get ripped apart. I'm a business student in my first year(btw, why is business considered an arts degree at RMC?), and I would probably say I've missed more classes than I've attended (not in a bragging sense, I'm just stating it for discussions sake). Many times, its because I'm sleeping or whatever.
Pretty easy to explain my thoughts. My english course requires me to write 4 essays for the entire course. That's it, thats all there is to it. So I have the essay topics for say short fiction, and I decide I'm going to pick the topic about one of the 10 short stories I could do. During class, our prof will stand up there and read the short story to us, spelling out a bunch of stuff for people that just aren't very good at english.
Well, why would I attend the 9 classes about the 9 stories that I don't need to know about (and I don't go to the class about the story I am doing either. I read the story myself and interpret it myself. That is what your supposed to be able to do, not just repeat back the prof's opinion to her). I can think of things I could be doing for that 50 minutes that are a lot more productive than listening to those stories that I will never need to know existed, and yes, that includes sleeping. I have an A in that class, I'm sitting somewhere above 90 for sure.
In fact, the only class I have (out of English, Folklore, 2 Business classes, and Economics) that I can say is truly worth attending 100% of the time is Economics. Every day I learn something new. Everyday I learn something that will be on the next assignment. Everyday I learn something that will be on a test or final exam. And everyday I actually learn something that I might actually need outside that classroom door.
I happen to be a very rational thinker, I look at things much like an economist. It comes down to the product, the result, and that's all that matters (that's the way the prof's look at it too). You do whatever it needs to be done to come up with the best product, and nothing less, and nothing more. If you owned a business, you wouldn't spend $500 dollars creating the exact same product that could be created for $300, no, you'd spend $300. If I'm writing an essay about Rothschild's Fiddle, I'm not going to waste my time getting "enlightened" about The Blue Hotel. Maybe I would if it was something that I was interested in, but as a first-year student, those kind of classes seem few and far between until I get into the real material in my later years.
Now, please enlighten me about the way I view these things, because that is of interest to me.
On the topic of skipping classes, I'm probably the guy you all hate, and I'm positive I'm going to get ripped apart. I'm a business student in my first year(btw, why is business considered an arts degree at RMC?), and I would probably say I've missed more classes than I've attended (not in a bragging sense, I'm just stating it for discussions sake). Many times, its because I'm sleeping or whatever.
Pretty easy to explain my thoughts. My english course requires me to write 4 essays for the entire course. That's it, thats all there is to it. So I have the essay topics for say short fiction, and I decide I'm going to pick the topic about one of the 10 short stories I could do. During class, our prof will stand up there and read the short story to us, spelling out a bunch of stuff for people that just aren't very good at english.
Well, why would I attend the 9 classes about the 9 stories that I don't need to know about (and I don't go to the class about the story I am doing either. I read the story myself and interpret it myself. That is what your supposed to be able to do, not just repeat back the prof's opinion to her). I can think of things I could be doing for that 50 minutes that are a lot more productive than listening to those stories that I will never need to know existed, and yes, that includes sleeping. I have an A in that class, I'm sitting somewhere above 90 for sure.
In fact, the only class I have (out of English, Folklore, 2 Business classes, and Economics) that I can say is truly worth attending 100% of the time is Economics. Every day I learn something new. Everyday I learn something that will be on the next assignment. Everyday I learn something that will be on a test or final exam. And everyday I actually learn something that I might actually need outside that classroom door.
I happen to be a very rational thinker, I look at things much like an economist. It comes down to the product, the result, and that's all that matters (that's the way the prof's look at it too). You do whatever it needs to be done to come up with the best product, and nothing less, and nothing more. If you owned a business, you wouldn't spend $500 dollars creating the exact same product that could be created for $300, no, you'd spend $300. If I'm writing an essay about Rothschild's Fiddle, I'm not going to waste my time getting "enlightened" about The Blue Hotel. Maybe I would if it was something that I was interested in, but as a first-year student, those kind of classes seem few and far between until I get into the real material in my later years.
Now, please enlighten me about the way I view these things, because that is of interest to me.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
There's not much to say. That's your view, and I'm sure your work ethics will continue to reflect these habits in later life. My first year English program has had me writing 13 essays over the course of the year on about 20 books. I have to read all of them, I have to attend all my lectures, seminars, and tutorials in order to do well on them. I'm in a special first year foundations program that is English, Philosophy, and History all rolled into one course, and I get 18 credits for it, which is why it is all the work, however it serves the dual purpose of keeping me on task.
I don't skip any of my classes, because I am not in the habit of doing it, which means down the road I will maintain the same style of work ethic.
You can continue going about your university education in the manner you see fit. The university doesn't care, you have already paid your tuition, the rest is up to you.
I don't skip any of my classes, because I am not in the habit of doing it, which means down the road I will maintain the same style of work ethic.
You can continue going about your university education in the manner you see fit. The university doesn't care, you have already paid your tuition, the rest is up to you.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I will say that it's nice to have the OPTION to miss class at Civvy-U, as it's helpful once in a while to prioritize, such as when theres a big assignment due I will miss a class to finish it up if need be, or miss one on a friday afternoon if a friend is in town, but I wouldn't take it to that extent ballz.
I'm envious that your marks remain high even without attending, and agree that the upper-year courses (I, too, am first year) appear far more stimulating and that it's prudent to use your time efficiently, but I can't figure out why you were bursting to tell us that you skip classes. You know people are going to come in here all: "That's not behaving like an officer."
I'll leave you with this: you never know where you will meet your new best friend, your future spouse, or start your next great adventure. Don't waste lightly the opportunity of those classes, even if they are boring. You're paying for them, after all.
I'm envious that your marks remain high even without attending, and agree that the upper-year courses (I, too, am first year) appear far more stimulating and that it's prudent to use your time efficiently, but I can't figure out why you were bursting to tell us that you skip classes. You know people are going to come in here all: "That's not behaving like an officer."
I'll leave you with this: you never know where you will meet your new best friend, your future spouse, or start your next great adventure. Don't waste lightly the opportunity of those classes, even if they are boring. You're paying for them, after all.
Ballz,
I have some experience with economics myself. I also have some experience with the rash and overconfident thinking of first year students.
Take it from a guy who knows; the course that has the greater value to your life, and the lectures that make you the critical and capable thinker that you just might, might, become one day, those are the English courses.
Economics you can learn from a book. Understanding literature and history, and the philosophical insight that *should* define a university career, those come from the lectures, the debates and vibrant discussion of the classroom. An "A" doesn't mean nearly as much as learning to see the rich texture of a well written play, story or poem.
You won't really understand this until 3rd or 4th year. The courses you take now are the foundations for the good stuff that comes later. Give literature another shot, ask around about the really good instructors and take their classes. Try history, philosophy or any of the other arts if they pique the interest more. I don't know what courses are available, but ask around, and I am sure you will find a couple of gems. The point is that these "boring" first year classes set the stage for whether you really understand the "good" senior classes. By the way, one of my favourite and most valuable courses was my required first year English course.
But don't drop the economics, and stop skipping classes, it can become a very hard habit to break. ;D
edit for clarity
I have some experience with economics myself. I also have some experience with the rash and overconfident thinking of first year students.
Take it from a guy who knows; the course that has the greater value to your life, and the lectures that make you the critical and capable thinker that you just might, might, become one day, those are the English courses. Economics you can learn from a book. Understanding literature and history, and the philosophical insight that *should* define a university career, those come from the lectures, the debates and vibrant discussion of the classroom. An "A" doesn't mean nearly as much as learning to see the rich texture of a well written play, story or poem.
You won't really understand this until 3rd or 4th year. The courses you take now are the foundations for the good stuff that comes later. Give literature another shot, ask around about the really good instructors and take their classes. Try history, philosophy or any of the other arts if they pique the interest more. I don't know what courses are available, but ask around, and I am sure you will find a couple of gems. The point is that these "boring" first year classes set the stage for whether you really understand the "good" senior classes. By the way, one of my favourite and most valuable courses was my required first year English course.
But don't drop the economics, and stop skipping classes, it can become a very hard habit to break. ;D
edit for clarity
- Reaction score
- 1,662
- Points
- 1,190
This is going to get ugly REALLY fast...
Ballz are you at RMC or civi-U?
Benny, you're right. If I was at civi-U I would go to every class just so I could meet cute girls ;D, or maybe thats just being stuck in an all male school that's talking. Oh wait sorry, ya there's actually girls (cough) here.
Ballz are you at RMC or civi-U?
Benny, you're right. If I was at civi-U I would go to every class just so I could meet cute girls ;D, or maybe thats just being stuck in an all male school that's talking. Oh wait sorry, ya there's actually girls (cough) here.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I go to civvy-u, and I do my best to attend every lecture. Stuff happens that causes me to miss a class occasionally but I absolutely hate it because then I feel like I am not going to understand any of the material for the final. I end up sitting down with the textbook and the professor's powerpoint slides for a few hours that night to go over what I should have learnt in that 50 minutes of class. My civvy friends at this university often feel that they should not show up to lectures, tutorials or labs because they don't need to, they can just learn the material at home. This is also why after two years they have around 40 credit hours and I am at 60 and I don't do summer semesters. Point being ballz (and every other civvy-u member), whether you feel you need to go to class or not, you should really be going. You will learn a lot more from just your lecture, the military is paying for you to go you have an obligation to go and it is not good for your work ethics. Past that I am not going to "rip you apart" because you should be old enough to realize you should be going.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 432
- Points
- 910
benny88 said:
I had to say it for the sake of the discussion and my point. I'm on the same side of the fence as you: we're big and ugly enough to decide whats important and when. Like I said, I don't miss an economics class cause I know it will affect my performance. That's just not the case in my other classes.
kmjab: The stuff she goes over in the lecture is stuff I can already see. I'm sure she could dive a hell of a lot deeper into, but then the rest of the class would be left going "wtf." The stuff she points out is just clear as day to me, so yeah... kinda hard to get enlightened. Anyway, I have 2 electives next semester which will be French and German, and then after next semester I won't have to do anymore god damn electives anyway (seriously, they're just to steal our money anyway).
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
So, if I was to follow that method of thinking, (using the example of my being at a flying unit as opposed to the HQ I'm at now) I should only go to work when I'm scheduled to fly or we have mandatory briefings.
If everyone at the Sqn were to do that then there would be no maintenance flights, since they are scheduled the day of. It's very rare to have them scheduled ahead of time. There would also be a lot more cancellations of assigned missions to support the Army. Imagine one of the pilots in a crew being grounded and there are no replacements available, since they weren't scheduled.
This is the point being brought up. Just because you may find some of these lectures useless, you may very well end up missing something important.
I'm not saying some of Lumber's points don't make sense. Let's say you miss a class because you have an assignment due and your computer picked up a virus and killed the essay. I'd say that's legitimate. But sloughing off a class simply because you want to sleep in? God, you'd never last in my office with that attitude.
If everyone at the Sqn were to do that then there would be no maintenance flights, since they are scheduled the day of. It's very rare to have them scheduled ahead of time. There would also be a lot more cancellations of assigned missions to support the Army. Imagine one of the pilots in a crew being grounded and there are no replacements available, since they weren't scheduled.
This is the point being brought up. Just because you may find some of these lectures useless, you may very well end up missing something important.
I'm not saying some of Lumber's points don't make sense. Let's say you miss a class because you have an assignment due and your computer picked up a virus and killed the essay. I'd say that's legitimate. But sloughing off a class simply because you want to sleep in? God, you'd never last in my office with that attitude.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
ballz said:
You realize electives are there so that you can expand your horizons, not staying locked rigidly into your program of choice? Trust me, you will be thankful to take a break from your program and getting to take another course that interests you. I took anthropology and archaeology this year and LOVED them! I'm not majoring in Anthro, but the courses are just amazing.
So what if you pay for them? Everyone has to take elective credits, everyone pays for them. Don't complain, just take the opportunity and enjoy it. University is there to be taken advantage of. You should be taking lots of interesting classes, meeting all kinds of people, joining clubs and teams, and having fun!
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 432
- Points
- 910
Intelligent Design said:
The way I see it, I am paying to study business. Making "non-business electives" a requirement to get a business degree is forcing me to pay extra money for something that I do not want. If I didn't have to take 3 electives in my first year, I could pretty well be finished my degree a full semester earlier. It should be my choice to decide whether I want study Athropology or Art History or Folklore or whatever, and whether I want to pay them money to teach me about it. I don't want to pay them money to teach me about those things, I want to pay them money to teach me about business. Hence why I'm trying to obtain a business degree and not a folklore degree.
I do not disagree that it is good to expand your horizons, and not be limited to knowing everything about one thing and nothing about anything. I happen to be interested in a lot of other things, and if I had the choice I'd probably learn French and German on my own, I would just like to have that choice, because I'd probably wouldn't do them while I'm doing my degree. I'd also like to take a few physics classes, but no, I'm not allowed to do physics, somehow thats less mind-expanding than folklore.
Anyway, like I said, it's just my two cents worth.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Be careful with skipping however. After completing the worst semester of schooling in my life (in university no less) I still am having trouble rebuilding a work ethic. You'd think an infantryman would be able to suck it up and soldier on and get his work done, and go to classes but you'd be surprised how hard it is to apply things you already know on different work. I highly suggest minimizing skipping, even if it's for good reasons. What happens is that, you start talking yourself into skipping and giving yourself excuses, reasons or way to work your way around it. This then moves itself into assignments themselves (oh, this essay is only worth %10, w/e I can make it up in the next assignment...) and then you're are sorely wondering how you could be such a lazy sob. So watch yourself....
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
Alright, here's my situation:
I'm a second year university student at University of Ontario IT. I've applied for ROTP, filled out my paperwork, passed the aptitude test and have my interview and medical next Friday morning. These are the questions I want to know:
1. Has anyone been in this same situation? (Being in 2nd year and trying to get into ROTP). If so, what's your story?
2. If you haven't been in my same situation, what are your thoughts on my chances of being accepted?
I assume that if I'm accepted to the ROTP, I will still have to serve 5 years (Which is okay, I plan to serve longer anyways). I have already taken care of 2 of the 4 years of my degree, so would I be seen as "half-price"? since they would only have to subsidize the remaining 2 years of my program? Just a thought.
The recruiter has told me that I would stay at my university and going to RMC is only an option if you start at the very beginning, so I already know about all that stuff.
I'm a second year university student at University of Ontario IT. I've applied for ROTP, filled out my paperwork, passed the aptitude test and have my interview and medical next Friday morning. These are the questions I want to know:
1. Has anyone been in this same situation? (Being in 2nd year and trying to get into ROTP). If so, what's your story?
2. If you haven't been in my same situation, what are your thoughts on my chances of being accepted?
I assume that if I'm accepted to the ROTP, I will still have to serve 5 years (Which is okay, I plan to serve longer anyways). I have already taken care of 2 of the 4 years of my degree, so would I be seen as "half-price"? since they would only have to subsidize the remaining 2 years of my program? Just a thought.
The recruiter has told me that I would stay at my university and going to RMC is only an option if you start at the very beginning, so I already know about all that stuff.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
As it took me only a few minutes, (less than 5), to find a topic that had most of the information to answer these questions and then merge them to this topic, I would like to suggest that people do a little more "research" before asking for answers to questions that have already been asked. We have a SEARCH function. We have separated the site into various categories of forums. We have given Topics appropriate titles in as many cases as possible to facilitate easy browsing. What more can we do, without having to spoonfeed people? It is especially essential for those joining the CF, at any rank, to learn initiative and research skills to advance. Lack of initiative and laziness will mean failure and administrative burden on the CF.
In my Trade the lack of initiative, research skills, writting skills, computer skills, and lack of the ability to be trusted and get a Security Clearance means immediate release from the Trade.
If you aspire to be an officer in the CF, be expected to be held to a high standard. Be expected to know how to do your research. You will be the one who your subordinates will come to expecting this of you.
In my Trade the lack of initiative, research skills, writting skills, computer skills, and lack of the ability to be trusted and get a Security Clearance means immediate release from the Trade.
If you aspire to be an officer in the CF, be expected to be held to a high standard. Be expected to know how to do your research. You will be the one who your subordinates will come to expecting this of you.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
I'll try not to take the last post personally because I know you get a lot of redundant posts, but with that said - it's not exactly the welcome I expected after my first post. However, I'd like to justify my laziness by saying that I'm not very familiar with forums and this topic wasn't addressed in "Recruiting Forum Introduction and FAQ" thread on the main Recruiting page. I thought the topic hadn't been touched on before. I honestly didn't think these forums are as massive as they are and I thought that the FAQ served as some kind of an index. I was wrong. I apologize for making your job more frustrating that it should be, I'll try my best to search for the thread that answers my questions before I post something of my own. Lesson learned, and thanks for letting me know what I'm getting into.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 432
- Points
- 910
Atta kid, don't take it personally, because if you do the military isn't for you haha.
Anyway, to answer part of your question, you will NOT have an obligatory service period of 5 years. The method is, 2 months of service for every 1 month of tuition paid. Seeing as how you have 2 years left, each with 8 months of schooling I'm assuming, you'll be required to serve 32 months.
That being said, I think there is a maximum amount of schooling your allowed to be completed, and you may be passed that maximum, since you wouldn't even be a captain before your obligatory service would be complete.
Anyway, to answer part of your question, you will NOT have an obligatory service period of 5 years. The method is, 2 months of service for every 1 month of tuition paid. Seeing as how you have 2 years left, each with 8 months of schooling I'm assuming, you'll be required to serve 32 months.
That being said, I think there is a maximum amount of schooling your allowed to be completed, and you may be passed that maximum, since you wouldn't even be a captain before your obligatory service would be complete.
Similar threads
