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Stephane Dion undecided as usual

GAP

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Stephane Dion undecided as usual
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Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says he won’t decide whether to bring down the Tory government until he sees next month’s throne speech.

Dion said he’ll assess Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s plans for the environment and Afghanistan before deciding how Liberals will vote. (CP)

Further reading:

* 2005 - Dion For Mission: Dion is in the Liberal cabinet when they decide to send Canadian troops to Afghanistan. He is back in the Liberal cabinet when they decide to move Canadian troops from Kabul to Kandahar
* March 2006 - Dion For Mission: “It’s a very important mission and we want to be there,” he told a Canadian Press reporter in early March. “We will succeed in Afghanistan if we show a lot of determination,” he said on CTV a few days later. “We need to be resolute and to succeed.” (Toronto Star, December 6, 2006)
* May 2006 - Dion Against Mission: Dion votes AGAINST extending the mission (May 17th, 2006)
* May 2006 - Dion For Mission: “I have always been a strong supporter of Canada’s mission in Afghanistan and Kandahar, and of those who have gone there to fulfill it, Canada’s Armed Forces.” (http://stephanedion.ca/?q=en/node/120)
* September 2006 - Dion For Mission and Against Withdrawal: Stephane Dion said that Canada would “dishonour” itself if it withdrew its troops from Afghanistan. (Vancouver Sun, September 19, 2006)
* November 2006 - Dion Against Mission and For Withdrawal BEFORE 2009: Stephane Dion says Canada should withdraw its troops “with honour” from Afghanistan before 2009 because their current mission is ill-conceived and misguided. (Edmonton Journal, November 22, 2006)
* December 2006 - Dion Against Mission: Dion said he would consider a withdrawal “with honour” of Canadian troops from Afghanistan because the mission is ill-conceived and has bogged down. (Toronto Star, December 4, 2006)
* December 12, 2006 - Dion For Bloc Motion: Dion said he might support a non-confidence vote on Afghanistan, even though it was a former Liberal government that first sent Canadian troops there. “It’s not the same mission at all now … We went in Kandahar to help a U.S. mission to become a NATO mission. And it’s done. Mr. Harper requested a two-year extension without a clear mandate, without commitment from the other nations. … We are in another world now.” (Toronto Star, December 12, 2006)
* December 19, 2006 - Dion Against Bloc Motion: “I don’t understand the Bloc’s position, at all,” Dion told reporters in Quebec City. “It doesn’t seem very useful to me to want to bring down the government on that in February.” (Toronto Star, December 19, 2006)
* December 19, 2006 - Dion For Mission, Says Can’t Give up: “We can’t give up on the mission until we have deployed everything to ensure it works.” (Montreal Gazette, December 19, 2006)
* January 24, 2007 – Dion Says He Needs More Information: Dion said the Liberals will call on the Commons foreign affairs committee to hold hearings on the mission. He said they want more information about the mandate of Canada’s soldiers and on how $10 million in development aid is being spent. (CP, January 24, 2007)
* February 22, 2007 – Dion Says Maintain Mission Until 2009: “By establishing a timeline for the conclusion of our combat mission in Kandahar in 2009, by insisting other nations share a greater part of the burden, by better integrating our military, diplomatic and development efforts, by helping the Afghan government take more responsibility, and by addressing the opium economy and water challenges, a Liberal government would ensure Canada has a responsible strategy in Afghanistan,” said Mr. Dion (Liberal Party Press Release, February 22, 2007)
* April 24, 2007 – Dion Wants Mission to Stay Only Until 2009: Dion votes to support Liberal motion to maintain mission until 2009.
* May 16, 2007 – Dion Says Mission Must End February 2009: No. The combat mission in Kandahar must end in February 2009 (Policy Options,, June 2007, http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/jun07/dion.pdf)
* May 16, 2007 – Dion rules out any continuing of role in Afghanistan: Asked if he envisioned a possible continuing role in Afghanistan for Canada, such as redeploying to another part of the country, Dion replied: “No”. (Policy Options,, June 2007, http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/jun07/dion.pdf)
* June 6, 2007 – Dion Open To Maintaining Forces in Afghanistan Past 2009: Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion yesterday opened the door to keeping Canadian troops in Afghanistan after February, 2009, but insisted they would have to be withdrawn from their current combat mission in the volatile southern region. (Globe and Mail, June 6, 2007)
* June 22, 2007 – Dion Says Mission Must End in 2009: Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said the prime minister is not being clear enough. “He is being irresponsible by being so ambiguous,” Dion said, adding the mission should end on schedule because Canadians are needed elsewhere around the world. (CP, June 22, 2007)
* June 22, 2007 – Dion Open to Continuing Role: “If you want to train other soldiers, you may need to have some of your soldiers involved, but the combat mission as such is end in february 2009, and to continue with this ambiguous statements from the prime minister is because he wants to stay. I think he has the same kind of attitude that when in 2003 he was proposing to go in the war in iraq.” (CBC Newsworld, June 22, 2007)
* July 5, 2007 – Dion Says Mission Must End in February 2009: Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion called on Harper to make it clear to Canada’s NATO partners that the Canadian mission will end as scheduled in February 2009 and not a minute longer. “No other country has more burden on its shoulders … than Canada,” said Dion, adding that Canada “will welcome other countries to do more. “The Prime Minister has said that he needs to have a consensus in order to extend the mission beyond February of 2009,” Dion said. “This consensus will never exist.” (Toronto Star, July 5, 2007)

end of article
 
Excellent post Gap! This is the same twit who says Stephen Harper flip-flops. :rofl:
 
Ignoring the rest of the post, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with wanting to actually hear the Throne Speech before you make a decision on it. Call me naive but I think that's a pretty rational approach.
 
Excellent post Gap! This is the same twit who says Stephen Harper flip-flops.

Could I propose the phrase "he toggles back and forth"?

Duceppe has come out with unmanagable demands for this throne speech.
This has forced Dion into the position of actually bringing down the government
if he follows suit. - He doesn't wanna do that.
As Stephane Dion squirms, I am moved to think delaying the throne speech was
an artful move on Harper's' part. ;D

 
niceasdrhuxtable said:
Ignoring the rest of the post, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with wanting to actually hear the Throne Speech before you make a decision on it. Call me naive but I think that's a pretty rational approach.

I readily agree with the high-lighted portion of your post, but Dion is just to easy a target to not take jabs at. The man is the best thing to ever happen to the Conservative Party. ;D
 
Lyrics to: "I hear the Harper train a comin"

I hear the Harper train a comin' it's rollin 'round the bend and I ain't seen the light since I don't know when.

I'm stuck in the opposition blues, and time keeps dra-gg-in' on.

But that Harper train keeps a movin' on down to a -Maj-or-Ity

When I was just a baby my mame told me, "Son Always be a good boy, don't ever play with a Harper." But I dared a man in Ottawa, just to watch him win.

When I hear the Harper whistle blowin' I hang my head and cry.

Well, they haven't freed me from this opposition hell, that election win wasn't mine.

I bet I'll have to move it all a lot farther down the line. Far from this opposition Prison, that's where I'am destined to stay.

And I hope that lonesome whistle, will blow my loser blues away.

 
niceasdrhuxtable said:
Ignoring the rest of the post, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with wanting to actually hear the Throne Speech before you make a decision on it. Call me naive but I think that's a pretty rational approach.

I believe that he has already set some fairly high conditions and has said as late as last week that he probably will not support the Speech from the Throne (before having seen it).

Now he's back-tracking.  Methinks he's making a mess of his diapies!  ;D
 
He's simply following in the tradition of his predecessors. None of them was able to make a clear decision on base of merit. Every time they did something it was based on polls.

Everyone in Canada knows polls lie and only favour the person, or party, commissioning it. Ergo, the liberals lie.



lie;libel; liberal:
The evolution of corrupt government.
 
It realy is sad that so many people in this country don't see the reality of Liberal "considered opinions"
 
Well I think it's reasonable to actually wait until the contents of the Speech have hit the bricks before vowing to vote against it. Duceepe has put the opposition parties in a quandary...none of them wants an election but Duceppe has been challenged on his own turf by an ever increasingly strong CPC. He knows he's gotta get his oar in before more of his support bleeds away but at the moment he is not in a position to win....it's an interesting catch 22. Dion's party is just plain hemorrhaging and he's got to try and shore it up somehow too...I guess he figures if he sounds reasonable for a change that might appeal. It's going to be a very interesting October me thinks.
 
He's simply following in the tradition of his predecessors. None of them was able to make a clear decision on base of merit. Every time they did something it was based on polls.

Everyone in Canada knows polls lie and only favour the person, or party, commissioning it. Ergo, the liberals lie.

lie;libel; liberal:
The evolution of corrupt government.

+1  Exactly right!  And your logic is hardly twisted at all!

Speaking of a twist - I think InHocs' comment is correct but
it appears Duceppe is trying to counter a threat from the right by
moving to the left. That is, if the Conservatives are a threat, try to
displace the liberals and NDP? Wouldn't that erode his traditional support?

So much anxiety.....  ;D

 






 
IN HOC SIGNO said:
It's going to be a very interesting October me thinks.

Is there not a Chinese curse to the effect of "May you live in interesting times"? ;D
 
Dion fuels election talk with throne speech conditions
Source:  http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/09/26/dion.html

Some Choice text:
Stephen Harper's Conservatives must make major changes to the upcoming throne speech or the opposition Liberals will vote against it, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion warned Wednesday, adding fuel to speculation there could be a fall federal election.

"This hidden agenda will be stopped," Dion said after a meeting with Quebec caucus members in Montreal.

------------------

"I am pleased when people underestimate me," he said. "I need to fight and win against a caricature of myself. And I will win."




Well, now.  Will we go to the polls this autumn?  Time will tell, I suppose.




 
MR - are you sure we are dealing with Mr Dion himself or his evil sawdust dummy twin?
 
geo said:
MR - are you sure we are dealing with Mr Dion himself or his evil sawdust dummy twin?

I'm not too sure.  He may have thrown his caricature in there to "confuse" us?  I dunno! ???
 
Mortarman Rockpainter said:
Dion fuels election talk with throne speech conditions
Source:  http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/09/26/dion.html

Some Choice text:
Stephen Harper's Conservatives must make major changes to the upcoming throne speech or the opposition Liberals will vote against it, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion warned Wednesday, adding fuel to speculation there could be a fall federal election.

"This hidden agenda will be stopped," Dion said after a meeting with Quebec caucus members in Montreal.

------------------

"I am pleased when people underestimate me," he said. "I need to fight and win against a caricature of myself. And I will win."


Well, now.  Will we go to the polls this autumn?  Time will tell, I suppose.

Interesting, Dion says PM Harper MUST make major changes to a speech he has never even seen. How does Dion know what is in the speech?

My prediction, parliamentary flu will hit the opposition MP's big time, no election. Unless someone miscalculates the numbers....wouldn't that be too funny!
 
M Dion and M Duceppe are acting like contestants on "Parliamentary Idol", auditioning for the "tough guy" role.

One medium sized gorilla in the room is the fact that they are in the territory of the left wing electorate, and the NDP and Greens are already  in there. The Bloc, once you strip away the nationalism is just another "Social Democratic" party peddling the usual socialist nostrums to the public (although putting "National" and "Socialist" together......), while the Liberals under Dion have steered ever further left from the previous Chretien/Martin position. Interestingly enough, since the 1993-2005 era Liberals campaigned from the "left" but governed from the centre, they have essentially destroyed their "brand" image; most people now understand that the Liberals as currently constituted don't really stand for anything but the exercise of power.

This is even clearer under M Dion; he has staked out positions which would be totally unachievable by any governing party without untold damage to the country (how many people here remember Bob Rae as Premier of Ontario? Now scale that up to encompass a nation), and even he understands these positions are untenable, look at his record on Kyoto. How will the electorate react to a Dion government which has to jettison its election platform on day one?

As mentioned in an earlier post, there is a lot of games playing going on, but most parties are in no shape to fight an election and I suspect the idea of a "flu" epidemic sweeping the opposition benches on Throne Speech day has a lot of merit.
 
Quite right. If we're talking financial means to fight an election the Cons are in good shape....they just don't currently have a great rating in the polls...or at least they would indicate that they are still in minority territory which is what the PM admitted the other day. I think they should all save us a bunch of money and headaches and just get on with making this parliament work. The electorate are not keen for an election so stop posturing!
 
IN HOC SIGNO said:
Quite right. If we're talking financial means to fight an election the Cons are in good shape....they just don't currently have a great rating in the polls...or at least they would indicate that they are still in minority territory which is what the PM admitted the other day. I think they should all save us a bunch of money and headaches and just get on with making this parliament work. The electorate are not keen for an election so stop posturing!
It's not really what he admitted, it was what he said.  Think back to 2004, his conservatives were surging in the polls.  He mentioned "majority" and people got "scared".  I don't think he'll make that mistake again. 

It really gets me, that after all this time of a fairly effective government, M. Dion is still talking about "hidden agenda".  I thought that went the way of the dodo after 2006!
 
Mortarman Rockpainter said:
It's not really what he admitted, it was what he said.  Think back to 2004, his conservatives were surging in the polls.  He mentioned "majority" and people got "scared".  I don't think he'll make that mistake again. 

It really gets me, that after all this time of a fairly effective government, M. Dion is still talking about "hidden agenda".  I thought that went the way of the dodo after 2006!

I think it's a mantra that they have trouble giving up and there are plenty of folks out there that still believe this....especially here in Atlantic Canada. I think it's hard for them to come up with anything else. The economy is doing well ( a huge surplus just reported), jobs have been created, and they've managed to run a fairly tight ship so far. They've tried the "he's a control freak" tact which isn't really resonating with Canadians (who cares if the Press Gallery doesn't get fed spin every day), they've tried the "he isn't living up to Kyoto" tact which isn't really resonating as most ordinary Canadians have no idea what Kyoto is all about anyway, they've tried the "mini-Bush, anti-american tact" which always goes down well with the left wingers who are mostly in the minority in this country....so now it's a return to the "hidden agenda" tact. It's much easier to dream up stuff that they might have up their sleeve than actually use facts and figures of what's actually happening. I noticed one guy in the CTV site referring to Harper as "scary" again today....obviously that one is still in their talking points playbook too. I'm still not sure what all this scary stuff is about as the man has been in power for almost 2 years and he seems refreshingly normal to me.....guy with two kids, a wife and a few cats....likes people around him who are loyal and usually thinks before he answers a question and if he doesn't know the answer doesn't try to fake it (for the most part).

Dion on the other hand seems to open his mouth to shift position of the two feet that are already stuck in there. Undecided seems to be a kind way of putting this guy's position on most things I've read or listened to with respect to him. I imagine the Liberals are looking for a way to ease this guy back to his ivory tower in the University world before he completely ruins the Liberal party.
 
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