Soldiers squander disability payouts

[MARS]

Pet,

He doesn't suggest, like Vern is, that a minority are abusing the system.

He says, and I quote:

because you don't need to be a Goddammed doctor to tell who is hoppin on the free money train.

WRONG!

(catch me in another thread at 8pm folks, when the Navy officer tells the infantry how to mount attacks, because I don't need to be a Goddammed (I'm gonna Trademark that spelling mistake) infantry officer to tell who is doing it wrong.  Why bother even having lanes anymore?)

and

IMO, the reason there is no money left to pay these people is because every tom, dick and hairy who wants to cheat the system can do it unchecked these days.  There was such an ammount of claims that there JUST ISN'T ANY MORE MONEY for those who need it. 

(emphasis added)

which, in addition to being a gross and incorrect generalization, is about the most f***tarded thing I have read today.  Next stop: "Whats the dumbest thing I heard today" thread.

My biases are founded on experience and common sense thanks

Well, at least he got part right - the bit about having biases...(which leads to prejudging and genralizations) ...although the common sense bit eludes me.

edited for clarity

 

[Redeye]

It does seem prudent to try to make sure as much financial counselling as possible is provided, because receiving this lump sum is like any other most likely for many people, it leads some - not all - but some - to indulge in things that aren't particularly prudent.  In my day job life I worked with a widowed partner of a soldier who was killed in Afghanistan, and she's thanked me innumerable times for basically taking the insurance proceeds and gratuity and all and basically putting it away.  We've looked after her retirement already, she bought a house (didn't pay cash, we financed it and used an investment to basically make the mortgage payments, all tax deductible etc), and most importantly, when all the "friends" and "family" come out of the woodwork with great ideas for the funds, she can tell them that she hasn't got access to any of it.

As for people ripping off the system, you'll never get around that, unfortunately, and I think it's probably a very small minority that would do so.  They seem to be pretty thorough, I finally applied for benefits as a result of two injuries I got as an Officer Cadet that continue to haunt me.  I don't care if I get some big payout (I won't, I have an idea of what at most I'd get), what I really would like is for some coverage of things like orthotics I now need.  It took six months for DVA to come back with "Not Enough Evidence" when I thought I'd given them ample - and so they're being thorough and so am I.

 

[Tank Troll]

Article Link


Veterans' groups are overwhelmingly opposed to a new policy by the Conservative government that eliminated monthly disability pensions in favour of lump-sum payments, up to a maximum of $276,080, if they are permanently disabled. 

Ummm. This new VAC was done by the Liberals just before the left power and the Conservatives inherited it. (they've done nothing to change it but it was a liberal brain child that gave us this)

 

[aesop081]

Ummm. This new VAC was done by the Liberals just before the left power and the Conservatives inherited it. (they've done nothing to change it but it was a liberal brain child that gave us this)

and fully supported by the RCL..........

 

[Tank Troll]

and fully supported by the RCL..........

When it passed through the house the Libs had a majority Government so even if the RCL opposed it they had no way to stop it. And like I stated they have done nothing to change it.

 

[aesop081]

When it passed through the house the Libs had a majority Government so even if the RCL opposed it they had no way to stop it.

My point was that the same vet groups who supported the changes at the time, are the same ones saying the changes were bad. The RCL was more than happy at the time, to stand at press conferences, saying the the new policies were the best thing since the discovery of fire and that they were the one true voice of vets that made it happen.

 

[Tank Troll]

My point was that the same vet groups who supported the changes at the time, are the same ones saying the changes were bad. The RCL was more than happy at the time, to stand at press conferences, saying the the new policies were the best thing since the discovery of fire and that they were the one true voice of vets that made it happen.

Seen. 

 

[dogger1936]

:

"Today's soldier".  Do you realize how ****ed up that is?  He is soon to be "Yesterday's soldier" like all before him.  Get off your high horse.

High horse? Where did you get me pointing out that yesterdays vets got way more than we do? 410 dollars is crap no doubt, but I know many guys who would LOVE to get something on a monthly basis.

Apologise for coming off that way. I'm done posting on this forum.

 

[SeanNewman]

Good leaders know when to STFU....

And when to not lose their cool, go on a rant, and type things like "STFU" which should according to site guidelines put you on the warning system but I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[aesop081]

And when to not lose their cool, go on a rant, and type things like "STFU" which should according to site guidelines put you on the warning system but I'm sure you'll be fine.

Dear lord........let it go. You were the first one to claim the moral high ground, start acting like it.

 

[Teeps74]

$410/month* over 20 years is $98400, just as an example... No small peanuts when taken in the context of life time tax free earnings (a little rusty, but medical pensions are tax freee right?).

But that pension is for life, not 20 years... So, if the member lives another 40-60 years, it is still 410/month. The lump sum does not address that.

I am going over the VAC site now, and wow... The monthly pension, IMHO serves those of us who may need it past/present/future better. This lump sum, well, irks me.  At the end of the day, a lump sum would be fine in the event of a non-permnent or non-debilitating injury. But I know in my case, were I to lose my legs, or another limb or two, I would find the lump sum to be insulting.

*Just borrowing an example from an earlier post as a demonstration.

(Disclaimer.  I am not now injured or drawing pensions... Just projecting as I still have another 20 years of service left in me *touch wood*)

 

[SeanNewman]

[On track]

Teeps,

In getting back to the original post, what seems to be the problem is that even if the amounts were the same (say $500,000 now vs $500,000 spread out over 25 years [adjusted for inflation so they'd actually make a tad more than 2010 dollars] the word "squander" for me suggests that it would be better spread out.

The fact that they are being issued a double-whammy is what really stinks.  Not only are they getting it all at once, but they are getting much less overall, as well.

A 20 year-old with no legs does not need a check and a kick out the door even if it were a lot of money, but a life full of ongoing care and small increments of money that he should not have to pay for any injury-related expenses out of.

 

[Occam]

I think it's important to note that most of the discussion has been related to the "Disability Award", which is, according to the Ombudsman, compensation for pain and suffering.

There are other programs under the New Veteran's Charter which deal with those servicemembers who are partially or completely disabled, and provide for income assistance.  See http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=forces/nvc/programs/fb.  I don't know much about these programs, or their eligibility requirements.

 

[the 48th regulator]

There now, it is good to get that all off your chest.  That shit causes indigestion, and we would not want you taking up a spot at the MIR, from the ones with the real injuries.  I also want to thank the posters and friends that have given you a bit of my back ground, but, let's plug away at your rant....

Unfounded biases?

Yes, UNFOUNDED BIASES.  I wish I could find the smiley that does the sign language thingy, you know that kind I would be giving you right now, when you don't understand something clear and concise.

Have you ever served with a reg for unit returning from a tour? 

Yep once.

Have you seen the troops who are so messed up that they can't be around an army uniform but still manage to get in 8 hours of modern warfare 2 each day?  What about the ones who can't do morning PT or go to the field but somehow can spend every night out at the bar rippen er up ?

I have the unfortunate privilege of doing so, on a daily basis.  Because of this, I am again asking you to refrain from Posting innuendos, and biases.  These actions are what stops the soldier who is hurt, from coming forward to seek the treatment he needs, not the amount of fakers that you "Believe" there are.

My boss gets 500 bucks a month or more because of twisting his back on roto 11 in Bosnia. He is planning a bowhunting trip this september which is more physically demanding than most things we do at work and despite the fact he is "undeployable" due to his injuries and can't run with me in the morning wearing BN PT strip I see him at the gym in civies each night and he has somehow healed enough to lift more weights than I can with a good back.

Make an official complaint, and solve the problem.  You seeing this happen, ignoring it, and coming here opnly helps those fakers you claim exist.

Please don't give me the "it's hard to tell who's faking" bullshit because you don't need to be a Goddammed doctor to tell who is hoppin on the free money train. 

 

I never ceases to amaze me, at the quality of training today’s soldiers have.  So let me see, you know better than a Doctor of Medicine, Psychiatry, and all the other clinicians.  It must be your x-ray vision that helps you.

There are many people who deserve the monthly sum of money, yes.  My heart goes out to these people who are only getting $26000.00 after losing limbs.  Some of these people are close friends

 

You lost me on this one.  I have always been a huge supporter for the old system, of Monthly payments, like you.  However, having friends who have lost limbs give you the right to spout inaccuracies.

IMO, the reason there is no money left to pay these people is because every tom, dick and hairy who wants to cheat the system can do it unchecked these days. 
There was such an amount of claims that there JUST ISN'T ANY MORE MONEY for those who need it. 

Can you please point us to an official document, or report where this is true.  Once again, I feel that this is another Barrack room rumour, to back up your claim of fakers.

The next time you feel angry about just pat the guy on the back who is getting 600 bucks a month for the past 15 years because he twisted an ankle while he was posted in Lar Germany. 

The one that defended the west, from a possible invasion of the Soviet Block.  Just because it did not happen, does not mean a threat was not there.  Remember, Canada had warriors before 2001.

My biases are founded on experience and common sense thanks, something not likely achieved no matter how many thousand posts you have on army.ca.

Step away from the computer once and a while and look at what's going on in the real world vice the "cyber" one.

Teeheehee, that was cute pumpkin, but I digress.  Let us not make this about personal attacks, and let us talk about truthful stories, and support a change towards the Charter.  You coming here ranting and raving with anecdotes, and stories that you thought sound true, do little in fixing the system.

I am part of a group of people who has gone through a broken system, seen it improve itself, and now work to make it even better.  You just fired both barrel in my direction, because I told you to knock off the Biases.

I stand by my request.

Dileas

Tess

 

[REDinstaller]

Now back on target again. Does anyone have the stats to compare what rate of files were approved as a disability pension as opposed to awards?

 

[the 48th regulator]

Now back on target again. Does anyone have the stats to compare what rate of files were approved as a disability pension as opposed to awards?

That is a very good question.  However, what you are asking is moot, because no one after the veteran's charter was given a Monthly Pension.

I believe someone did post the stats on the amount of people who have been awarded under the new system, though, in this thread.  Let's take a look.

dileas

tess

 

[REDinstaller]

This is true about the charter, but i think that it would show a trend on applications and determine what medical issues would be better served by reintroducing the long term disability pensions.

 

[Scott]

Right, this thread has been cleaned up. No need for anymore bunfights or popcorn eating smileys. If you have something to add then by all means speak up.

The Staff

 

[Sapplicant]

Right, this thread has been cleaned up. No need for anymore bunfights or popcorn eating smileys. If you have something to add then by all means speak up.

The Staff

Roger that, back on track...


Perhaps instead of a large cash settlement the Gov't could assist by setting them up with a small business tailored to their hobbies/interests? This can benefit everyone in the long run, as they now have a source of income, and are putting into the economy.

 

[SeanNewman]

Sap,

Very outside the box but actually a brilliant idea, however I can't even see it happening due to the sheer number of injured vets.

That being said, sadly we have gotten very good at a lot of things (ramp ceremonies, burials, assisting officer, etc) and if a small cadre were tasked with your idea they would only get more efficient with time.

But yes, someone tasked with walking them through all of the hurdles to start-up a business would be great.