Soldiers accused of stealing from fellow CF members

[Bzzliteyr]

That finding is from the "appeal" (request for review) and yes, a posting is looking like it's in the works..

 

[Franko]

That finding is from the "appeal" (request for review) and yes, a posting is looking like it's in the works..

Back to the School you!  LOL

Regards

 

[old fart]

Holding summary trials in the presiding officers office was generally the case and still is for the most part in my experience. 

However, during my last stint at CFSME, they where held in a school common area with plenty of seating for all and sundry (in the case of a trainee being charged, the rest of their course would attend); I was presiding officer on many occasions in this "more open/accessible" format.

 

[Gunner98]

Amendments to the QR&O Volume II, Chapter 108, 108.28 (Who may be present at a Summary Trial) were made effective 1 September 1999, therefore experience before and after that date may vary.  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-02/doc/chapter-chapitre-108.pdf

 

[Blackadder1916]

Amendments to the QR&O Volume II, Chapter 108, 108.28 (Who may be present at a Summary Trial) were made effective 1 September 1999, therefore experience before and after that date may vary.  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-02/doc/chapter-chapitre-108.pdf

From the Jul 96 version of the OLTRS disk and may be the applicable QR&O wording before the changes in summary trial procedures and mindset that started before the turn of the century.

108.29 -- GENERAL RULES FOR TRIAL BY COMMANDING OFFICER

. . . . .

(4) To the extent that accommodation permits, members of the public,
military and civilian, shall be permitted to attend a summary trial as
spectators unless the accused requests that the public be excluded and, in
the opinion of the commanding officer, the request should be granted.
Except for those with an appropriate security clearance and a need to
know, members of the public shall be excluded from those portions of a
summary trial where classified information will be given in evidence.

                                  NOTES

. . . . .

(B)  To comply with paragraph (4) of this article, a commanding of officer
    should make every reasonable effort to ensure that members of the
    public wishing to attend a summary trial can do so.

(M)                                                          (10 Jan 83)

With the exception that the guilty b*****d accused is no longer permitted to request that the public be excluded from the trial, there is not much difference about summary trials being open to the public.  However, there were a number of problems identified about the fairness of the summary trial process and thus the changes.  I'm of that generation (or at the tail end of it) when a summary conviction (or two) was not an unknown event in the career of many successful soldiers - I've been on both sides of the table, standing hatless as well as sitting in judgement.

In "the old army" (a deliberately facetious comment), I don't think there was much thought to purposefully excluding the public (military or civilian) from summary proceedings, they were just semi-routine activities that occurred in the life of the unit.  Daily routine for those not personally involved in the process still continued, why would normal training and administration be suddenly frozen to permit all and sundry to attend - someone still had to sweep the hanger floor or drink coffee in the platoon cage.

I've not much experience with this new paradigm of summary trials being spectator events.  The closest may be a trial before a delegated officer in the field during a WAINCON in the 1970s when the sixteen accused simply switched hats and position until we were all dealt with; wasn't even any double quick time in and out of the tent.  Similiarly, after I was commissioned and was on course in Borden (1980s), the Commandant of the CFMSS held a summary trial for two privates on their TQ3 course.  Everyone on course (all the courses) had to attend and not only did the Colonel conduct the trial in public, but he would interrupt his proceeding at each stage and provide commentary on the what and why.  Not only was I astonished by the show, many of my coursemates (like me, most either from the ranks or re-classed from another MOC) also said they had never seen anything like it.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

Everyone on course (all the courses) had to attend and not only did the Colonel conduct the trial in public, but he would interrupt his proceeding at each stage and provide commentary on the what and why.

On my PLQ last winter same thing happened.

 

[medicineman]

I've not much experience with this new paradigm of summary trials being spectator events.  The closest may be a trial before a delegated officer in the field during a WAINCON in the 1970s when the sixteen accused simply switched hats and position until we were all dealt with; wasn't even any double quick time in and out of the tent. 

Sounds like what happened in St Jean when I was at the Language School.  About 150-200 folks got charged on one day after the Base Duty WO got bored and collected ID cards at 2332 hours outside the Private's mess on a school night (we were supposed to be in our mods by 2330 on school nights).  The guilty folks were marched in 3x3, changed positions twice and were marched out with either 50 & 5 or 100 & 7.  Felt sorry for the duty officers that week with that many defaulters to inspect hourly, plus quarters inspections on weekends...

MM

 

[mikeninercharlie]

I'd like to think that being a member of the infamous "Rainbow Junction 16", that BA describes, prepared me for  for a senior appointment within our glorious corps... >

 

[medicineman]

Dare we ask?

MM

 

[Journeyman]

I'd like to think that being a member of the infamous "Rainbow Junction 16", that BA describes...

Dare we ask?

op:  Yes, do tell.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I'd like to think that being a member of the infamous "Rainbow Junction 16", that BA describes, prepared me for  for a senior appointment within our glorious corps... >

Yeah, whether being of the "Unholy 7" or later part of the "16", it seemed to be good experience.  But most of you got off easy with the extra duty and drill assigned as punishment, the evac platoons went out for the next several days and the extras were burned off in the bush.  The CP and Amb Pl stayed at Rainbow Junction and I had to do 5 days straight of pot-walloping and then a radio shift after.  The RSM made sure of it; guess he didn't get over wanting to charge me with inciting to mutiny the year before.

 

[medicineman]

Can't ever see anyone wanting to mutiny in 1 Fd Amb... :

MM

 

[Gunner98]

From the Jul 96 version of the OLTRS disk and may be the applicable QR&O wording before the changes in summary trial procedures and mindset that started before the turn of the century.

This para is a little different:

(4) Any direction made under this article shall be recorded in a minute to be signed by the officer presiding at the summary trial and attached to the Record of Disciplinary Proceedings.

This and the fact that prior to 1999 the Presiding Officer did not have to make a record of any decisions other than finding and sentencing if appropriate on the Charge Sheet.