So what is your opinion on saluting foreign officers?

[MAJOR_Baker]

Just got back from Afghanistan, and I was wondering what the concensus is of the military personnel on the forum....

1. Salute foreign officers out of respect.
2. Why bother, they have funny uniforms and silly insignia.

The reason why I ask, when I was in Bosnia for SFOR2, I would make it a point to salute all higher Ranking Foreign officers especially the Russian officers.  In fact I remember opening the Door for a Russian COL and having my hand shook and back slapped.  I guess I made a friend that day.  However, when I was on Bagram AB I saw a CDN Captain, WMO, and a CPL walk right by a US Army Major General, nothing, no salute, no greeting of the day, I thought it was very disrespectful.

On a lighter note the sky didn't fall and the earth was not struck by an asteroid and maybe it was an honest mistake or they were not paying attention, but you know me....eagle eyes, spot the CADPAT anywhere  

 

[Born2Fly]

As long as we're saluting allied foreign officers, I'm totally for it.

 

[JBP]

Although I haven't formally been in the military or reserves yet, in those situations or similary circumstances I would have saluted any other nation's officers. Except the enemies of course...  :

It only makes sense, increases relations between the nations' fighting forces and hopefully causes mutual feelings of respect and not animosity(sp?).

I do remember back in the day when I was in army cadets, our CO at that time had a "Shoot the shit" conversation with us newbies where he advised us to have mutual respect and proper etiquette for other units and types of cadets and thier ranks (eg. air, army, sea). He also advised us to stick together as a unit no matter what. He said if one of our fellows was to get into a fight with someone from another unit, and even if we HATED the guy from our own unit and hoped he got his ass kicked, he advised us to jump in and fight as a team. He said if we didn't stick together in any situation like that he'd personally see to it we realized why that was so important. No one in my pltn made the mistake of messing that up, we stuck together like glue.

Yes, I would say #1, Salute foreign officers out of respect

Joe

 

[Infanteer]

Saluting a higher Officer from another military is customary.  However, one must get around the various customs with the salute unique to each nations military.  For example, Canadians do not salute without headdress on.  As well, some bases and areas have a no salute policy, such as the camp I was in overseas; just makes life easier for everyone to do their daily tasks.

(PS: Sherwood, if I saw you, I would give you "the high five"  )

 

[1feral1]

After training with a host of nations such as Papua New Guinea, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia, Fiji, etc, saluting commissioned officers is a custom and tradition recognised by mose civilised nations, and personally its done out of professional courtesy and respewct for their rank, and the level of professionalism is noted as one is representing his country.

I have no problem saluting foreign officers, and this goes to if they are arrogant, etc. There has been a few.

In my regiment there is a 'no salute policy' in the field, where all officers carry rifles, and you cant tell them from a enlisted man. Salutes can draw the sniper fire.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Inch]

When I was in Moose Juice, my flight commander was a USAF Maj, you took your career in your hand if you didn't salute him.  There were also a ton of other foreign instructor pilots there, my primary instructor was a German Maj, a former Tornado driver, there were Italians, Danes, Hungarians, Singaporean students and a few other foreign types running around. We learned all their ranks and saluted everyone of them. We salute Cdn senior officers, so why not foreign ones?

http://www.rankinsignia.info/

That's a pretty helpful site, could be useful for those overseas tours. The thunder that could come down not to mention the fact that we'd look unprofessional would dictate you salute all senior officers, foreign and Cdn.

In the airforce we don't wear headdress on the flight line due to FOD so no salutes there except to the ground crew before you go flying but you've got your helmet on for that, and we also have designated no saluting zones and those vary from base to base.

Cheers

 

[Infanteer]

Here is a question.   Is saluting officers of allied armies stipulated anywhere in the QR&O's?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Not sure about QR&Os, but the Manual of Drill and Ceremonial, Ch 1 Sect 2 "Compliments":

25. Courtesy Salutes

a. Foreign officers shall be saluted in the same manner as Canadian officers unless the circumstances clearly dictate otherwise.

b. Service members may express their respect for individual civilians by using a salute as a formal means of greeting or farewell.

 

[Jungle]

...when I was on Bagram AB I saw a CDN Captain, WMO, and a CPL walk right by a US Army Major General, nothing, no salute, no greeting of the day, I thought it was very disrespectful.

There is a "no salute policy" in the field or on OPS, for the same reasons mentionned by Wes. Also mentionned is the fact that we don't salute without headdress. BUT, a simple "Good day Sir" to acknowledge the presence of a senior Officer would have been appropriate.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Looks like all the bases have been covered.  To sum up

a) regulations state the foreign officers will be saluted. 
b) Canadians don't salute while in a vehicle, orwhen  not wearing headdress.

Ladykiller Infanteer may like to know that there is still a regulation "on the books" that states specifically that "female acquaintainces" may be saluted at the discretion of uniformed (male) personnel.  Or it was the last time I checked.

If nothing else, you can impress the gals in the regimental Ladies Auxiliary with that.  I know we have.

Oh, and a nice German tidbit for Infanteer also - in the German Army in WW II, the offering of verbal greetings were backwards to what we do.  When we salute a superior, it is customary to say "good morning/afternoon/evening/day Sir/Ma'am"  (Don't know if that is required, but it has always seemed customary to me).  The officer will usually reply with the same, or a simple thank you.  The Germans, however, were expected to remain silent, and if a greeting was offered, it would be offered by the superior, to which the junior rank was expected to return the compliment.

So yes, customs do vary.

It was worse for Fritz in World War One, when regulations demanded that he speak to superiors only with the third person.  Not "you're correct, Major," but "Herr Major is correct!"

 

[Infanteer]

Another question regarding custom.  Why is it that most Officers (that I have encountered anyways) seem to take "Sir" as the only form of address from a subordinate.  I remember being taught on basic that "Sir" or the Officer's Rank were both acceptable, however, the few times I watched troops refer to their commander as "Captain" etc, they were lightly rebuked.  I always thought address by rank seemed more professional, while "Sir" is reserved for dignitaries and strangers).

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Another question regarding custom.  Why is it that most Officers (that I have encountered anyways) seem to take "Sir" as the only form of address from a subordinate.  I remember being taught on basic that "Sir" or the Officer's Rank were both acceptable, however, the few times I watched troops refer to their commander as "Captain" etc, they were lightly rebuked.  I always thought address by rank seemed more professional, while "Sir" is reserved for dignitaries and strangers).

You posted while I was typing!  Look back two posts.

To answer your question - I've noted some funny things along these lines, too.  I think it is people interpreting things differently.  I remember seeing a whole batch of officers and MWOs standing with our RSM.  So to get his attention I said "Excuse me RSM", because "sir" would have got the whole group to turn around.  He never said anything but I was taken aside later by a junior officer and told that it was always "sir". 

Incidentally, the group form of "sir" is not "sirs" but "gentlemen" - I wonder how many officers actually know that, I'll bet at least one person on this forum has been jacked up for using the correct "gentlemen" rather than "excuse me, sirs..."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Anytime i salute I usually start to say Good morning/afternoon sir before i salute just so the officer actually notices me and and that im saluting.

I've always found saluting an officer from another country (Say bosnian russian whatever) makes the officer look good infront of his troops and probably strokes their ego a little. If you call a group of 20 canadian soldiers to attention to salute a bosnian LT or captian when they walk by, the next time you see them their your best friend and pretty helpful.

 

[Infanteer]

To answer your question - I've noted some funny things along these lines, too.   I think it is people interpreting things differently.   I remember seeing a whole batch of officers and MWOs standing with our RSM.   So to get his attention I said "Excuse me RSM", because "sir" would have got the whole group to turn around.   He never said anything but I was taken aside later by a junior officer and told that it was always "sir".

I know I'm picking flyshit here, but I've seen it the other way as well.   I always called my old CSM "Sergeant Major" (except on Parade; "Sir just expedites things...) and I think he liked it that way.   It seemed to grant the respect due to the position better then a paltry "sir."   As well, the guys from 2 Vandoo we replaced were all addressing their Senior NCO's and Officers by rank (in French).

The point is, does someone have the authority to give you shit for doing so when it clearly says on the sheet they give you on your first day of Basic Training that addressing a superior by their rank is appropriate and acceptable (Don't call me sir, I work for a living....)

Incidentally, the group form of "sir" is not "sirs" but "gentlemen" - I wonder how many officers actually know that, I'll bet at least one person on this forum has been jacked up for using the correct "gentlemen" rather than "excuse me, sirs..."

I can only imagine.   "Gentlemen" sounds a little too informal, and would probably ruffle the feathers of those who take themselves too seriously....

I've always found saluting an officer from another country (Say bosnian russian whatever) makes the officer look good infront of his troops and probably strokes their ego a little. If you call a group of 20 canadian soldiers to attention to salute a bosnian LT or captian when they walk by, the next time you see them their your best friend and pretty helpful.

The Bosnians have Officers?!?   I thought they just picked up the AK and the Sliv and went from there....

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I have no problems saluting any officer of any nationality although sometimes you look have to look hard. For the navy we also have to pipe the side for command grade officers which can be tricky if unfamiliar with the rank insignia of that country.

 

[atticus]

Another question regarding custom.  Why is it that most Officers (that I have encountered anyways) seem to take "Sir" as the only form of address from a subordinate.  I remember being taught on basic that "Sir" or the Officer's Rank were both acceptable, however, the few times I watched troops refer to their commander as "Captain" etc, they were lightly rebuked.

On my basic I remember we were taught very early in the course that we could call officers by rank or sir but about half way through the course the base OC wanted to inspect us and he was called by his rank by a few different privates. We got yelled at for that for a good 15 minutes by the very MCpl who taught us it was okay to call officers by rank or sir. Seemed kinda confusing to me but after that I always call officers "Sir".

 

[Inch]

We don't tend to be very high strung in the airforce, MWOs and CWOs are called chief here in Shearwater, probably due to the navy influence from across the harbour, majors are called maj everywhere I've been, the DCO is called sir or XO(in Shearwater, again from the navy types). Every FE or AESOp that I've run into I call by their first name and they do the same to me in certain settings (ie in aircraft or when no "grown ups" are around, just to keep each other out of sh*t).  MCpls and up tend to understand that even if they're calling me by my first name, I'm still higher in the chain of command and lawful orders aren't to be questioned.  Cpl's and Pte's I'm a little more careful about who I introduce myself to by my first name.

Don't get me wrong, the army and the navy aren't the same way between officer's and NCM's, I understand their reasoning, but that's how we operate in the air force.

Cheers

 

[Garry]

You don't salute the Officer, you salute the Commission.

 

[combat_medic]

I think that saluting foreign officers is not only a good idea, it's a matter of respect. However, the difficulty arises when you can't really recognize the insignia. When I was tasked in Shilo, there were a few batteries of American Artillery there, so there were Yanks everywhere. There were posters up on most walls in the shacks and the mess of the rank insignia of both the Canadian and American forces, and courtesies were expected of everyone. The problem with that, is the tiny black rank pin on the centre of the American headdress is so small and dark that by the time you can identify it, it's probably too late for a salute anyway. We all made an effort, but I don't think anyone was offended if they got left out.

I do know one case, however, of some guys who were in Ft Lewis (or maybe it was Yakima) and got jacked up for not saluting an officer indoors with their headdress off. It took some explaining to clear it up, but I think it shows that we shouldn't be as rigid in the enforcement of courtesies, as each military is different.

 

[dutchie]

An interesting tid-bit I noted in the regs as posted earlier: it does not state CF pers are to salute allied officers only. So I guess we have to salute 'enemy' officers as well? I seem to remember seeing documentary footage of WW2 where German officers are saluted by the Allies, and vice versa.

Oh, and I don't salute cadet officers - I know we're supposed to, but I don't. They can try and jack me up, if they like.   :threat: