SISIP LTD 2002 - 2018

[Occam]

I would disagree as this has an impact on other forms of insurance; if for example you are receiving unemployment insurance, workers compensation, or compensation from an auto insurance company after a car accident, then the veterans pension is often considered a form of income that has to be declared and just as often can be deducted off of support payments, just like the SISIP program. 

This case could set the standard for preventing these kinds of deductions across the board in all insurance-related cases where a member receives a veterans pension.

Yes, if you're getting a monthly pension, then you're getting it under the Pension Act - which is why I said this case doesn't have any bearing on people who are under the new charter, as they receive a Disability Award and not a pension under the Pension Act. 

This case may indeed have an impact on the status of Pension Act pensions, in that it may serve to clarify whether it may be counted as income in other situations outside that of SISIP LTD.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I would disagree as this has an impact on other forms of insurance; if for example you are receiving unemployment insurance, workers compensation, or compensation from an auto insurance company after a car accident, then the veterans pension is often considered a form of income that has to be declared and just as often can be deducted off of support payments, just like the SISIP program. 

This case could set the standard for preventing these kinds of deductions across the board in all insurance-related cases where a member receives a veterans pension.

VAC disability pensions are not considered income for EI purposes, but a CFSA pension is.  I should know, I'm one of those system abusing tax payer raping deadbeats, for the moment.

 

[Bigrex]

Actually, the judge stated that the contracting parties to an insurance plan can have whatever deductions they want, but it has to be written down in clear language in the policy so that no interpretation of what is included is required. Our case won because the CDS used the term "Income benefit" so therefor our pension act payments for pain and suffering are excluded because they are not income. he even cited VAC's Earnings Loss Benefit that legally includes PA pensions because it does not use the quantifier of Income in their exclusion clause. I wish it had been stated that nobody can reduce any insurance payment to a Vet based on them receiving PA payments, but that is not the case, so far. Fortunately, the judge said that most insurance policies do not reduce claims for income replacement due to non indemnity payments such as the PA pensions, out of fairness.

The judge also questioned if the government understood the legality of reducing a claim by amounts not stated in the policy, like workers compensation or automobile insurance payments. Currently, if you were released and pensioned for a bum knee, SISIP would deduct the PA pension received for that knee, rightly or wrongly. But if you went on and worked somewhere else and injured your back and was awarded a workers compensation award, SISIP would try to reduce their liability by that amount as well, and the courts have said that is wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't sit down and rewrite the entire policy over again based on the court decision.

 

[dogger1936]

It means nothing to anyone who has a condition under the New Charter.  When they implemented the lump sum payment and rescinded the monthly pension, the issue of whether the VAC disability pension was classified as "monthly income" became moot, since the lump sum is a disability award.

Ok thanks for confirming what I had thought. Congrats to all those under the pension act!! Glad to see some vet's getting what they deserve.

 

[Greymatters]

VAC disability pensions are not considered income for EI purposes, but a CFSA pension is.  I should know, I'm one of those system abusing tax payer raping deadbeats, for the moment.

Glad to hear its not a problem with EI, but it is an issue with other forms of insurance, when the insurance company member doesnt understand the difference between a military pension and a disability pension...

 

[kstart]

If anyone is in the Ottawa area tomorrow, I notice that Dennis Manuge will be attending Question Period, House of Commons, 13:00hrs.

http://canadianveteransadvocacy.com/Board2/index.php?board=87.0

I sincerely hope the Federal Government cease and desist on pursuing appeal of the Federal Court decision.  Honour where honour is due: these people have fought long and hard.  I'm writing my MP; Rob Nicholson; Peter MacKay. . .

 

[The Bread Guy]

Two tidbits:

1)  During Question Period yesterday, this question was asked, but Hansard shows no answer appears to have been given.....

Mr. Sean Casey (Charlottetown, Lib.):  Mr. Speaker, I would hope that by now we could assume that the minister has finally completed his homework and is up to speed on the 31-page Federal Court decision on veterans pensions.  With only a few days before the Conservatives must decide whether to appeal this very clear ruling, is the government now in a position to tell the House and thousands of affected veterans what action it intends to take?

2)  The Ministers of Defence and Veterans Affairs are going to speak to media just after noon today (29 May 12) about - guess what?

.... The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, and the Honourable Steven Blaney, Minister of Veteran’s Affairs, will discuss long term disability benefits for Canadian Forces members and veterans.

When:
Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:15 p.m. (EST)

Where:
Conference Room D, 2 North Tower
National Defence Headquarters
101 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa, Ontario

-30-

Notes to editor / news director:

Media representatives are asked to arrive at 11:45 a.m. (EST). Entrance will be through the Nicholas Street security gate. Please note there is limited Sat Pad parking space available.

Media may listen to the news conference by telephone at the following numbers: 1-877- 974-0445 toll free, or 1-416-644-3415 for local calls ....

 

[The Bread Guy]

The federal government will not a appeal a Federal Court of Canada ruling that rejected clawbacks from the pensions of disabled veterans.

The Canadian Press has learned a formal announcement will come this afternoon from Veterans Affairs Minister Steven Blaney and Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

The ruling earlier this month was a victory for veterans five years in the making.

The class action was filed in March 2007 on behalf of Dennis Manuge and 4,500 other disabled veterans whose long-term disability benefits are reduced by the amount of the monthly Veterans Affairs disability pension they receive.

The court said the clawback was unfair under the Pension Act and violated the reasonable expectations of disabled vets.

While the government won't appeal the ruling, sources say details of the settlement, including how far back pension repayments might extend, are still being worked out.

Manuge has said in the past that as much as $320 million was at stake in the court fight.

Senior defence sources say the final pay-out figure is "likely in the hundreds of millions of dollars" but that will be determined in negotiations with the plaintiffs.

A government source said one internal estimate sees the figure go as high as $600 million, depending upon the negotiations ....

The Canadian Press, 29 May 12

 

[dogger1936]

Good news for those affected.

Now will they even the playing field and make one veteran on standard? I'm dismayed they didnt take the right action and move forward to bring back pensions for us injured after 2006.

Next lawsuit proceeds I guess.

 

[Grapeshot]

See the CBC website for the story.

Ottawa won't appeal veterans' court victory on pensions -  The Canadian Press

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/29/pol-mackay-blaney-veterans-pensions-clawbacks.html

This appears to be great news for those 6000 personnel who won the lastest court battle. Finally, it appears that the government of the day will be doing the right thing!  BZ

 

[The Bread Guy]

Seems to be confirmed:

The federal government will not a appeal a Federal Court of Canada ruling that rejected clawbacks from the pensions of disabled veterans.

Veterans Affairs Minister Steven Blaney and Defence Minister Peter MacKay made the announcement in Ottawa on today (sic), saying they had sought and received a clear opinion from the court on the payments.

The ruling earlier this month was a victory for veterans five years in the making.

The class action was filed in March 2007 on behalf of Dennis Manuge and 4,500 other disabled veterans.

Their long-term disability benefits are reduced by the amount of the monthly Veterans Affairs disability pension they receive.

MacKay says there is no reason to delay the benefits of those who are suffering as a result of their military service.

He says it isn't clear how much it could cost the federal government or how far back the payments would go, adding they will continue talking to the parties involved ....

CP via Global News, 29 May 12

 

[krustyrl]

A huge pat on the back and "thank you" to Mr Denis Manuge for his persistence in what he believed in and taking on the big machine.         

THANK YOU.!

note:  thank you also to Mr MacKay and Mr Blaney for doing the right thing for ill and injured CF Members. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Following a long five-year class action lawsuit between disabled veterans and the Government of Canada, disabled veterans expressed relief that the Federal Court of Canada decision in their favour will not be appealed.

"This has been a long five-year class action lawsuit between disabled veterans and the Government of Canada and its is great to see that they are doing the right thing," said Canadian veteran and lead plaintiff Dennis Manuge. "They have listened to Canada's disabled veterans, and clearly they wanted to do the right thing."

(....)

"The Federal Court of Canada ruling and the acceptance of the ruling by the Government of Canada, provides hope for Canada's disabled, ill and disadvantaged veterans who have been taken advantage of for far too long," said Manuge. "This has been a very difficult experience for Canada's disabled veterans, including me, on a personal, emotional and financial level and it is a relief to know that we are one step closer to being reimbursed."

In the near term, Mr. Manuge's legal counsel, Peter Driscoll and Daniel Wallace with McInnes Cooper and Ward Branch with Branch MacMaster, will work with the Federal Government to finalize details of the class action decision.

"We don't know the full scope of this announcement yet, but we're confident it soon will put the money into the hands of all affected disabled veterans - many of whom have been waiting a very long time and need this support very much," said lead counsel Peter Driscoll with McInnes Cooper. "We look forward to sitting down with federal representatives to implement the decision."

Minister MacKay and Minister Blaney also announced today that as a result of this court decision, the Government of Canada will change the Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB) to be aligned with the SISIP decision, so that ELB benefits are not reduced by the amount of VAC disability payments.

"This ELB decision will put much needed money in the hands of disabled veterans," said Driscoll.

(....)

For more information visit www.leavenovetbehind.ca or www.mcinnescooper.com.

McInnes Cooper news release, 29 May 12

Still nothing at the DND or VAC site yet with more details.

Edited to add this from DND:

The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, and the Honourable Steven Blaney, Minister of Veterans Affairs, today announced that the Government of Canada will not appeal the Federal Court’s May 1, 2012 decision regarding the offset of Pension Act disability benefits from the Service Income Security Insurance Plan (SISIP).

“The men and women who serve and sacrifice in Canada's name need to know that their Government will stand behind them and provide the benefits they need when their service is complete,” said Minister MacKay. “I am pleased to announce our government will discontinue the offset for Long Term Disability benefits.”

Since 2006, the Government of Canada has put in place a wide range of programs and benefits to support ill and injured Veterans, military personnel and their families. These complement the Long Term Disability group insurance plan for Canadian Forces (CF) members that is administered under SISIP. This program has done a tremendous amount of good by giving veterans with a long-term disability a benefit equal to 75 per cent of their pre-release salary.

“I am happy to announce that our Government is taking action to harmonize our disability benefits at Veterans Affairs to reflect the planned changes to SISIP,” said Minister Blaney. “With these changes, Veterans Affairs’ disability pension will no longer be deducted from the Earnings Loss Benefit, as will be the case with the War Veterans Allowance and the Canadian Forces Income Support Benefit. This is a very positive change for our men and women injured in service to Canada who will now receive the benefits and services they are entitled to. Our Government will continue to stand up for them the same way they have stood up for our great country.”

The CF Long Term Disability (LTD) Income Replacement program is a disability group insurance plan administered by SISIP Financial Services that provides CF members with replacement income protection and vocational rehabilitation if they are released from the CF for medical reasons or take a voluntary release but qualify as being totally disabled.

“Today's decision ensures that our Government's strong record of delivering for our men and women in uniform continues to meet the needs of those who need these benefits,” said Minister MacKay. “The Government acted in support of our members, past and present, because we believe that it is the right thing to do.” ....

 

[Representative Plaintiff]

To all the doubters and haters on here, one individual with some luck and a kick ass legal team (pro bono) can make a difference and change the law!

To all the supporters, many thanks

For more info on our voctory, pleasse see:

http://leavenovetbehind.ca/home

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
THEODORE ROOSEVELT
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

 

[dogger1936]

To all the doubters and haters on here, one individual with some luck and a kick *** legal team (pro bono) can make a difference and change the law!

To all the supporters, many thanks

For more info on our voctory, pleasse see:

http://leavenovetbehind.ca/home

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
THEODORE ROOSEVELT
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

Absolutely. To all the loud angry people speaking up; Thanks!!

 

[krustyrl]

Any news from those currently on LTD ( or anyone.?), wether or not any VA Pension is still being deducted from their LTD.?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Any news from those currently on LTD ( or anyone.?), wether or not any VA Pension is still being deducted from their LTD.?

The latest from The Canadian Press:

The federal government will stop the clawback on pensions of disabled veterans starting on July 1, but it's still negotiating retroactive payments to those covered by a Federal Court ruling.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay announced an end to the clawbacks in a statement on Friday, two weeks after the Harper government decided not to appeal a court ruling that sided with veterans.

A class-action lawsuit was filed in March 2007 on behalf of Dennis Manuge and 4,500 other disabled veterans whose long-term disability benefits are reduced by the amount of the monthly Veterans Affairs disability pension they receive.

MacKay called Manuge to tell him about the end to the deductions.

But the minister said in his statement that federal lawyers are still working to obtain a "mutually acceptable settlement" for repayment of benefits that have been clawed back, in some cases for decades.

It is unclear how much that will cost or how far back the payments will go.

Manuge, at point, estimated as much as $320 million was at stake.

But senior defence sources say the figure could run as high as $600 million, depending upon the negotiations ....

 

[krustyrl]

Thanks milnews.ca. 

Upon reading the link I seen this come up.

Among the matters under discussion is whether the benefit will be taxed.

 

[Kokanee]

I am curious to know whether this will also apply to those recently released vets on LTD while going back to college for their two year education period. Currently your CF pension counts towards the 75% during that time.

 

[dogger1936]

I am curious to know whether this will also apply to those recently released vets on LTD while going back to college for their two year education period. Currently your CF pension counts towards the 75% during that time.

I don't believe so. This is concerning your disability pension; which if your under the NVC you no longer get.