Single Quarters & Rations (R&Q) [MERGED]

[jeffb]

At your enrollment. I'll warn you that when I went through only a year ago St. Jean basically required me to go through everything all over again.  Make sure you have all your documentation with you even if you think it was sorted out at the recruiting center. Even then, unless things have changed in the last year, you can expect it to take a couple of weeks, or months, to get your pay sorted out.

 

[mgp]

........And the clerk who didn't know the answer should be fired.

No they should have brought it to someone higher who can give an answer or search the pubs (though since search engine changed its brutal) and follow up with the member.

If I was fired every time I didn't know an answer considering how many different publications there are for clerks to reference, I wouldn't have lasted a week when I started taking customers as a Pte fresh off my 3's.

 

[George Wallace]

No they should have brought it to someone higher who can give an answer or search the pubs (though since search engine changed its brutal) and follow up with the member.

If I was fired every time I didn't know an answer considering how many different publications there are for clerks to reference, I wouldn't have lasted a week when I started taking customers as a Pte fresh off my 3's.

This is a very basic question, and if you didn't know it, then yes you, as a clerk, should be taken out back, shot and then pee'd on/or just fired.  Sorry if I struck a nerve, but clerks these days really do not have two clues to rub together.; and I am not talking about young inexperienced Ptes, but PO1 and PO2 types..  The Trade has been greatly deteriorating for the past twenty years.  FRP and Amalgamation have destroyed the Trade, as well as Career Managers who have no clue of what they are doing when they Post a Cpl to a Chief Clerk job, and promote them to MCpl without a PLQ.  The Career Manager is further destroying the credibly of the people in the Trade by these practices.

 

[mgp]

This is a very basic question, and if you didn't know it, then yes you, as a clerk, should be taken out back, shot and then pee'd on/or just fired.  Sorry if I struck a nerve, but clerks these days really do not have two clues to rub together.; and I am not talking about young inexperienced Ptes, but PO1 and PO2 types..  The Trade has been greatly deteriorating for the past twenty years.  FRP and Amalgamation have destroyed the Trade, as well as Career Managers who have no clue of what they are doing when they Post a Cpl to a Chief Clerk job, and promote them to MCpl without a PLQ.  The Career Manager is further destroying the credibly of the people in the Trade by these practices.

Didn't strike a nerve with me, I am eager to learn my job and do strive to do my best.  You obviously have many years of experience and insight on things at this point I do not know much about. I was just saying what I would do if a problem was put forward to me and I didn't know the answer, and through pubs or my superiors I have gotten my answer AND I learn something new.

I'm going to see what info I can dig on the amalgamation of Fin and Admin, I think it's an interesting topic.  My course instructor who was a previous Admin Clerk spoke briefly of how much 'fun' it was when it happened.

Cheers!

 

[Jammer]

IMHO the CF is not social services. If you cannot sort out your domestic life BEFORE you sign on, don't bother.
There are too many administrative burden trainees/recruits in the pipeline now.
Short answer is NO! You will pay the same as everyone else unless you have extenuating circumstances that have occured AFTER you bagan training and can be sustantiated by documentation.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

IMHO the CF is not social services. If you cannot sort out your domestic life BEFORE you sign on, don't bother.
There are too many administrative burden trainees/recruits in the pipeline now.
Short answer is NO! You will pay the same as everyone else unless you have extenuating circumstances that have occured AFTER you bagan training and can be sustantiated by documentation.

:

Aside from the CFSCE instructor attitude, do you have a reference that supports your (wrong) opinion on this one? 

 

[NightEcho]

IMHO the CF is not social services. If you cannot sort out your domestic life BEFORE you sign on, don't bother.
There are too many administrative burden trainees/recruits in the pipeline now.
Short answer is NO! You will pay the same as everyone else unless you have extenuating circumstances that have occured AFTER you bagan training and can be sustantiated by documentation.

Wow... like I said I have made arrangements to cover my obligations either way. I never did say the CF was a "social service" and I do not need it to be such. I am taking a 50% pay cut for the opportunity to serve my country and before I go I want all my ducks in a row. Simple.

 

[Jammer]

Eye In the Sky,
As far as I know there is no set policy that can be ref'd. It is my opinion.
It's pretty holier than thou  on your part to tell me what is wrong or right about it. If you can back up what you think rather than shooting from the hip, lets hear it. it might help in the long run.

 

[PMedMoe]

I am taking a 50% pay cut for the opportunity to serve my country

It's strictly voluntary, you know.  When you include full medical and dental and the amount of paid leave, I think it often evens out in the end.

before I go I want all my ducks in a row. Simple.

Good on you, people should be prepared.

 

[Robodad]

If I got a nickel for every time that situation occurred while I was in the Orderly Room, then I'd have no money at all...

http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol3/Ch208_e.asp#208.50

CBI 208.50(2)(c) and CBI 208.505(2) will grant you free R&Q if you are entitled to Separation Expense (which the OP is not).

I was paying for both, a PMQ and an SQ while I was separated....I also had to pay for rations whenever I ate at the mess hall.

 

[NightEcho]

If I got a nickel for every time that situation occurred while I was in the Orderly Room, then I'd have no money at all...

http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol3/Ch208_e.asp#208.50

CBI 208.50(2)(c) and CBI 208.505(2) will grant you free R&Q if you are entitled to Separation Expense (which the OP is not).

I was paying for both, a PMQ and an SQ while I was separated....I also had to pay for rations whenever I ate at the mess hall.

Link doesn't seem to work.

Also, I thought you paid a monthly fee for rations at BMOQ, not whenever you ate at the mess?

 

[Robodad]

The link is on DWAN/intranet.

When you're on ration strength, then it's a monthly deduction.  I was only commenting that I did not get free R&Q when I was separated and already paying for housing.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Robodad,

In your case, I am going to bet you were posted to the geographical location your PMQ and SQ were located at, therefore the situation you found yourself in was not created by the CF.

If the OP has a house & mortgage at location X, and is sent to location Y for training, maintains that home AND dependants in it (he is seperated, not divorced or single so therefore in the eyes of the law, legally married no?), then the mbr should not have to pay for R & Q.

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/pd/14c-14t/index-eng.asp (Para 7):

and

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/menu/pd/ir-ji/index-eng.asp#6

f:  Copy of lease: Candidates who are married or living in a common-law relationship and who occupied rented premises or a house before arriving at CFLRS must show proof that they have a lease or a mortgage. You must show proof of phone bills or electricity bills. If you don't have these documents, you'll have to pay for your quarters and rations.

I was looking for something more definitive at the DCBA Aide Memoire, CBIs etc as I know when I was staff at CFLRS, students who maintained a residence, were married, etc didn't have to pay R, Q or in some cases, either R & Q.  There was a DCBA policy out specifically for OCDts/Recruits in trg, but I can't find my older Bookmarks file where I had it stored a few years ago.

 

[CountDC]

sorry that all us clerks aren't fully in the loop on everything to George's standard.  Unfortunately our trade (especially since amalgamation of the 3 into RMS) has way too much material for everyone to know everything. That being said, the clerk at the CFRC should have told you (PLQ answer) I don't have that information on hand right now but will find out and get back to you.

This question is not as simple as it at first seems.

Are the children your dependants?  I am of course assuming that your seperated wife is not.  My wager would be that you got the house for whatever reason and she has custody of the children.  Is it full custody with visitation or is is it shared custody?  makes a difference.  Is it documented ?  you may qualify for free rations as per:

CFAO 36-14
4.    The commanding officer (CO) of a base, unit or ship providing food
services is authorized to draw rations for and provide meals without charge
to:

r.  a member living-out or residing in MQs with his dependants as defined in QR&O 209.80, who is ordered to occupy single quarters because of military requirements;

dependant child is now defined in CBI 205.15 vice QR&O 209.80 as fols:

“dependent child” means a child or legal ward of an officer or non-commissioned member or an individual adopted legally or in fact by the member who is:
(a) single
(b) in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member;
(c) under 21 years of age, or of any age if prevented from earning a living by reason of mental or physical infirmity; and
(d) dependent upon the member for support


205.015 (2) (Interpretation of a child “in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member”) A child or legal ward of an officer or non-commissioned member:

(a) is “in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member” when a court decree or judgment or separation agreement exists, the terms of which award the custody of the child to the officer or non-commissioned member, or make no provision for the child but the child is actually in the custody of the member, or a court decree or judgment or
separation agreement does not exist, but the child is actually in the custody of the member, and

(b) is not “in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member” when a court decree or judgment or separation agreement exists, the terms of which award the custody of the child to the spouse or common (?? I guess that is suppose to say common law partner??)

 

[NightEcho]

sorry that all us clerks aren't fully in the loop on everything to George's standard.  Unfortunately our trade (especially since amalgamation of the 3 into RMS) has way too much material for everyone to know everything. That being said, the clerk at the CFRC should have told you (PLQ answer) I don't have that information on hand right now but will find out and get back to you.

This question is not as simple as it at first seems.

Are the children your dependants?  I am of course assuming that your seperated wife is not.  My wager would be that you got the house for whatever reason and she has custody of the children.  Is it full custody with visitation or is is it shared custody?  makes a difference.  Is it documented ?  you may qualify for free rations as per:

CFAO 36-14
4.    The commanding officer (CO) of a base, unit or ship providing food
services is authorized to draw rations for and provide meals without charge
to:

r.  a member living-out or residing in MQs with his dependants as defined in QR&O 209.80, who is ordered to occupy single quarters because of military requirements;

dependant child is now defined in CBI 205.15 vice QR&O 209.80 as fols:

“dependent child” means a child or legal ward of an officer or non-commissioned member or an individual adopted legally or in fact by the member who is:
(a) single
(b) in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member;
(c) under 21 years of age, or of any age if prevented from earning a living by reason of mental or physical infirmity; and
(d) dependent upon the member for support


205.015 (2) (Interpretation of a child “in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member”) A child or legal ward of an officer or non-commissioned member:

(a) is “in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member” when a court decree or judgment or separation agreement exists, the terms of which award the custody of the child to the officer or non-commissioned member, or make no provision for the child but the child is actually in the custody of the member, or a court decree or judgment or
separation agreement does not exist, but the child is actually in the custody of the member, and

(b) is not “in law or in fact in the custody and control of the member” when a court decree or judgment or separation agreement exists, the terms of which award the custody of the child to the spouse or common (?? I guess that is suppose to say common law partner??)

I have joint custody and guardianship of the children and access ranging form 30%-60% depending on the week in practice, but in the child custody agreement  has me at 30% access. She has primary residence. They are both still considered my Dependants. There is no legal ruling from a judge, this was a mediated written agreement filed with the court.

Thanks to everyone who has offered help on this.

 

[CountDC]

I have joint custody and guardianship of the children and access ranging form 30%-60% depending on the week in practice, but in the child custody agreement  has me at 30% access. She has primary residence. They are both still considered my Dependants. There is no legal ruling from a judge, this was a mediated written agreement filed with the court.

Thanks to everyone who has offered help on this.

That would be the seperation agreement they refer to. Make sure a copy goes on your pers file and take a copy with you when you go for training.  That document will play an important part in your and your childrens life until replaced as it is your prove that they are still dependants. You can cover them with the med/dent plan, use LTA to visit, reverse LTA for them to visit and I think qualify for free R&Q (although I am not 100% on the rations) while on course.

 

[Biohazardxj]

This is a very basic question, and if you didn't know it, then yes you, as a clerk, should be taken out back, shot and then pee'd on/or just fired.  Sorry if I struck a nerve, but clerks these days really do not have two clues to rub together.; and I am not talking about young inexperienced Ptes, but PO1 and PO2 types..  The Trade has been greatly deteriorating for the past twenty years.  FRP and Amalgamation have destroyed the Trade, as well as Career Managers who have no clue of what they are doing when they Post a Cpl to a Chief Clerk job, and promote them to MCpl without a PLQ.  The Career Manager is further destroying the credibly of the people in the Trade by these practices.

I beg to differ with you on that one George.  It is not a very basic question.  Especially in this case.  The RMS world is very unique in the fact that a clerk could spend  a lot years working in different orderly rooms on the same or different bases and not have to deal with separation expense.  This sort of thing typically dealt with at Base level OR, not a unit OR.  So if Cpl Bloggins has spent his entire career in small unit size ORs he may not even know what a SE claim looks like, and it would be no fault of his own.  It's just the way the trade works.

I will agree with you that the Clerk world has changed drastically since amalgamation, FRP, and the introduction of computers.  Back in the mid 80s when I was a young Admin Clk, we had three pubs that we used to answer all question: CFAO, QR&O, and the 245.  Now we have those three plus the CBIs, CFTDIs, DAODs, and others.  Some of which actually contradict each other.

The biggest problem lies with CFSAL.  QL3 RMS is only 8 to 10 weeks, no where near enough time to teach everything that a new clerk needs to know.  Plus the lesson plans they were using in 2007 were antiquated.  What really worries me is what is going to happen to the trade when guys like me who have 25+ years in retire and all the real expertise is gone.

Just my 2 cents worth. 

 

[xtoxicxshockx]

As long as you can prove you make payments on a house somewhere, they will not charge you.  If you own a house, be prepared to show proof of mortgage payments, upto and including your mortgage, they'll also want a bill with your name on it, and it can't be over 90 days old.  You'll still be charged rations, which is the more expensive of the two, around $493.82 a month.  I was married and living in the PMQ's when I joined and I was still charged for the first 3 months, it's standard procedure in St. Jean, even though I had all the paperwork they wanted.  I was then back paid everything around week 7, since I was entitled to free R & Q, but if you have mortgage payments etc, try and set money aside before you leave, I was left in a tight situation being docked both R & Q and having a PMQ payment to make every month including my bills at home until they straightened everything out.

 

[nomij]

Hello There!
My Fiance is to be posted in July to a Canadian Base for On The Job Training, (EGS Tech).  I'm trying to put together a practical budget for us to reach some financial goals, and I'm not sure of what living costs are actually like after BMQ.

I've looked around at some of the topics and discussions, and I've discovered he can rent/buy off base, or look into PMQ.  What othere options are there?

Can he rent an appartment on base?
Can he rent a room on base?
Are Barracks an option if we're looking to save some $$ until the wedding?

Though I'm sure options vary from base to base, it looks as if the probability will be Trenton or Petawawa based on EGS Tech postings, and if he gets a chance to voice a preference.

Any help is much appreciated! 

 

[PMedMoe]

Barracks - rooms could be single, double, quadruple and the bath is usually shared.  Costs for R&Q (rations & quarters) vary.
PMQ - availability varies from base to base.
Rent off base - he might be able to.  It used to be you had to live in for your first year, but that's probably changed.  It's a good idea to get a lease you can break with 30 days notice.

Since he is going for OJT, this is probably going to be a "restricted" posting, meaning he will not be entitled to a move of furniture and effects.  In that case, it may be better for him to live in barracks.