Single Quarters & Rations (R&Q) [MERGED]

[Sparkplugs]

So I know you guys are the ones with info, seeing as I've hit a brick wall on this one.

I got to Trenton in March, and was told if I was living in, I had to pay rations.  I thought it was only if you were on course, or a training base, but when I asked about it, they said, no, this was a new thing, all people in shacks were being forced to pay rations.  So as I had no choice, here I am on rations, to the tune of $427 a month.  Now, before I get a "Oh, suck it up, cupcake,  >" here's my reasoning.

*8 AMS people are on 12 hour shifts.  0600-1800, and 1800-0600.  The mess opens at 0600.  This means, in order to eat breakfast, I have to be late for work.  My staff is okay with it, mostly because they have no choice, they know we have to eat.  It also means I have to leave in the middle of a dayshift for lunch, and that can be an ordeal, sometimes the lines are out the door, so you're looking at 1 hour+ there.  We also leave 15 mins early at the end of the day, because the mess closes at 1830.  So we can never be at work for shift handovers or anything that happens at the start or end of a shift.

*Because we work nights as well, we're missing our lunch meal due to sleeping.  We asked if we could simply pick up extra dinner when we're there to eat, to bring to eat at midnight.  We got a great big "NO," and have been eating box lunches ever since.  I don't know about anyone else, but I feel like my $427 is going to waste when I get ham sandwiches and juice boxes for my midnight dinner, every night shift. 

*Freedom of choice... If I want to go out to eat, I can't afford it.  Paying $427 a month for food, would feed a small family.  So how am I, 5 feet tall and all of 110lbs, going to eat that much food at the mess?  I'm not...  So what am I paying for?  I'd like to be able to pay per meal, so I can choose where I'd like to eat, and be able to bring my own lunch to work.  Sure, I could bring my own stuff now, but I can't afford it on top of what I already pay. 

*Those of us on meal cards are not allowed to take out food.  So no snacks, no drinks, nothing.  I don't like having to pay extra for those things at a store when I'm supposed to be fed in the mess.  Also,it's very hard to eat healthy there.  The variety is just not there.  For instance, dinner today was either deep fried fish, chicken nuggets, pasta with meat or alfredo, or pizza.  Not too healthy.  I'm tired of eating yogurt and salad for dinner.

Anyway, enough ranting.  We were told that Petawawa started doing it first, for reasons I won't get into here, can anyone verify that people in sq's in Pet are being forced on as well?

Also, people who arrived here before I did, did not have to link up...  There was an email printed out and taped on the wall that said that the personnel currently de-linked would be forced to link with a 3 month grace period.  This has not come down yet, and those not paying rations, have not been told that they will have to re-link.

I guess my question is, can I fight this?  How come I don't get a grace period?  There are only a few of us being forced right now, and we'd like to know if we have any options.  I talked to my chain, and they said nothing could be done on their end. 

And yes, I would get an apartment or a Q, but a)I can't afford it right now, being a P3, and b)I'm going to be on course for 8 months next year, out of Canada, and I don't want to pay for a place I'm not living in for that long.  I will be getting out of shacks as soon as I can afford it, but I'm stuck until then.

Any ideas?  Comments?  Anyone seen this before with an operational base, and residents who aren't on course?  I'm just frustrated here, as being de-linked would allow me to bring my own stuff to work, and also to put away money for a place in the future. 

Thanks for your time.    ;D

edited to add info since I was awesomely linked to another post on this I didn't find before.....

In reference to the post linked below this one, they are not offering us the mon-fri meal plan or the 2 meal per day plan.  It's $430 a month, for everyone, all the time.  Mon-fri wouldn't work for us, we run 24/7 shifts, so we need the weekend eats, but I still think a pay as you go plan would be the best way to go. 

 

[aesop081]

  Paying $427 a month for food, would feed a small family. 

Its just me and my 11 year old daughter.......$427 doesnt cut it.


Move out as soon as you can, suck it up until then.

Even when i go to other bases for recurent training , i have to put up with shitty menus and oddball hours. You are not the only one getting a shitty deal so make the best of it. You could always be in Afghanistan eating the same IMP for the 5th meal in a row.

 

[Sparkplugs]

Its just me and my 11 year old daughter.......$427 doesnt cut it.


Move out as soon as you can, suck it up until then

I fed myself and a big ol' boyfriend for a few years before I joined on less than that, and we ate pretty well too, better than mess food anyway!

I've resigned myself to sucking it up, but it can't hurt to ask if something can be done...  If another base sets a precedent, then I have something to bring up my chain.

 

[HItorMiss]

Thats odd I was in the shacks in Pet from Sept 07 until march of this year and was never forced to link, I know lot's of individuals not linked and living in the SQ's.

 

[Sparkplugs]

I have been reading in the other post, and people are mentioning things about how the kitchen wouldn't know how much food to prepare, etc, if they didn't know how many cards were in use.

Trenton has a busy mess.  And when I'm in there at lunch, I'd estimate that 50% of people in there, are cash customers... why can't we be cash (ie pay as you go) as well?  They can't possibly use that as an excuse when they feed a ton of civvies and visitors at lunch who all pay as they go.  And they're not regulars, some of them, at least we're pretty regular.  I know if there was a pay as you go option, I'd be using it at least once a day.  There are enough bases who have been using swipe cards, could they not make up a trending formula to guesstimate how many of us there'd be using it? 

It just seems like the numbers excuse doesn't work when a large portion of eaters are paying cash anyway. 

EDIT:  I'm not expecting to eat for free, I'd just like to buy/make my own food.  In the common room here, we have enough kitchen appliances to make meals with.  If this is to make sure we're eating stuff other than ramen noodles and pizza, it seems like babysitting.  Just because we live in shacks we have to be spoon fed?  What about people who are trying to save up for future housing? 

 

[SupersonicMax]

That doesn't happen in Moose Jaw for sure.  People living in have the choice, and many don't eat at the mess for various reasons (mainly because the food is not very good).  Most IR people do eat at the mess though.

CDN Aviator:

Even when i go to other bases for recurent training , i have to put up with shitty menus and oddball hours. You are not the only one getting a shitty deal so make the best of it. You could always be in Afghanistan eating the same IMP for the 5th meal in a row.

When you go somewhere else on TD or Attach Posting, you don't get to pay a ridiculous amound of money to eat crappy food though.

 

[Sparkplugs]

One of my main concerns is that other living-in members have not been forced on rations, yet I have.  If no CFAO or CANFORGEN has come down about it, how can they force me and a slight few others?  And who could I speak to, to address this?  Even a few months grace off rations, where I could buy my own food, would help out more than now.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Its free crappy food  ;D


Though the new shacks in Gagetown are just great  

 

[HItorMiss]

Even when i go to other bases for recurrent training , i have to put up with shitty menus and oddball hours. You are not the only one getting a shitty deal so make the best of it. You could always be in Afghanistan eating the same IMP for the 5th meal in a row.

That answer is BS. I was in Afghanistan I did et the same IMP for months and I will be the first to tell you that forcing someone to eat in the mess and pay that much for food is not on not even remotely. As a single person I do not eat $427 in food a month on my own in fact when my significant other is here I don't think we eat that much in food either but I will ask her.

When you are on training you are not paying for your rations and course schedule are built around mess hours. This young Pte is missing work and leaving in the middle of shifts simply because some yahoo has decided that she HAS to be linked for reasons I can only speculate as to why ( Such as mess are losing money as very few living in pers are willing to eat there, food quality is at best OK and it is not the cooks fault it's simply massed produced food you can't do much when you are cooking for hundreds) As members stopped being linked rations prices increased to make up short falls it seems now that they areforcing living in pers to link perhaps they will lower food prices though I doubt that.  

I think this needs to be brought up to the Ombudsman myself I think removing that choice from soldiers is not right or perhaps even legal.

EDIT: Also she makes a good point if there is no standing CFAO or QR&O or CANFORGEN I am not sure they can really push this onto them should the choose to fight it. The question ebing who is willing to start the fight and make some enemies

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I have to agree with BulletMagnet.......................it sounds ridiculous.

 

[Sparkplugs]

I think this needs to be brought up to the Ombudsman myself I think removing that choice from soldiers is not right or perhaps even legal.

EDIT: Also she makes a good point if there is no standing CFAO or QR&O or CANFORGEN I am not sure they can really push this onto them should the choose to fight it. The question ebing who is willing to start the fight and make some enemies

I've brought this up to the Ombudsman, 4 weeks ago, with no reply yet.  I assume they're busy, so I'm waiting.  I checked up on it once, all I was told was that they have it, and they're really busy, so waiting is in order.  Hey, I can wait, I've spent $12,000 on food in messes in the past couple of years! 

I'm trying to fight it, don't know what options I have though, so thats why I'm checking here.  I don't mind a good fight, hehe, especially when it's for something I believe in.

(edited for spelling, oops)

 

[hugh19]

When I was on the Protectuer, we had a non-QL3 NCIOP trainee. Who even though she was sailing on a ship still had to pay rations at Nelles block.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

When I was on the Protectuer, we had a non-QL3 NCIOP trainee. Who even though she was sailing on a ship still had to pay rations at Nelles block.

??? now thats money well spent.........................................................................NOT

Who comes up with this stuff?

 

[hugh19]

Though i can't remember if she was delinked when we actually sailed but I do know she had to pay for R&Q when we where alongside even if she was duty and had to be onboard. Mind you she was also rationed on the ship for meals. ie Lunch and soup, when alongside.

 

[HItorMiss]

Spark you want to fight it then you write a memo and in that memo you ref the fact that there are no QR&O's, CFAO's or CANFORGEN's that say living in pers MUST be linked ( research it first though perhaps there is but I have not seen one) And then you say that forcing living in pers to be linked is by definition illegal as there is no order stating that it is mandatory in the CF. And you address it to the Base Comd, Memo's must be seen by those they are addressed to. and it must be actioned in 14 working days.

Here is the catch if you are right or even wrong you will incite a Poop Storm...and I mean a big one your own CoC is not going to like it (well some might respect the fact you took the time to look it all up and are taking action I would) And the Base CoC if being proven wrong in writing will have to change their policy and that will not make any Col Happy, especially since a Pte called them on it. Remember this is one COA and not the only solution, the other is taking all the info to your own CoC and making them awarethat it's not legal and see what they do with it. and of course there is waiting for the Ombudsman as well

3 COA's provided of the top of my head withing one or a combination of all of them lays the answer.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I know many WComd that would be more than happy to make the living conditions better.  The fact that a Pte sends a memo to point out something should not have any impact on anything.  And I don't see any reason to make a big poop storm out of it, provided something is genuinly wrong in the way they do things.

 

[blacktriangle]

Is the $427 total for R&Q or is that only the R portion of it where you are?

I remember reading about a similar situation in Edmonton a few months back, and yes it did seem less then ideal. If I remember correctly it was more of an incentive to get living in pers to move out, in order to free up space. If it's happening everywhere, I think they need to simply build more base housing...or explain the real reason behind it.

Once I get settled into the regs I'm going to evaluate my position, as I'm torn between not wanting a car, but at the same time not wanting to eat the mess food constantly or pay for it and not eat it. I don't know what the rules are in Shilo, can anyone clarify if I'd be forced to pay rations there if I just wanted to live in the SQ's? If im in Edmonton, I might just take my chances with PLD...

 

[aesop081]

When you go somewhere else on TD or Attach Posting, you don't get to pay a ridiculous amound of money to eat crappy food though.

No so i end up spending my own money on food because the mess serves shit or because i'm in training during mess hours. My point was that its not because you live out that issue with the mess stop.

That answer is BS.

Fair enough

and course schedule are built around mess hours.

In your world maybe.

 

[Sparkplugs]

Is the $427 total for R&Q or is that only the R portion of it where you are?

I remember reading about a similar situation in Edmonton a few months back, and yes it did seem less then ideal. If I remember correctly it was more of an incentive to get living in pers to move out, in order to free up space. If it's happening everywhere, I think they need to simply build more base housing...or explain the real reason behind it.

Once I get settled into the regs I'm going to evaluate my position, as I'm torn between not wanting a car, but at the same time not wanting to eat the mess food constantly or pay for it and not eat it. I don't know what the rules are in Shilo, can anyone clarify if I'd be forced to pay rations there if I just wanted to live in the SQ's? If im in Edmonton, I might just take my chances with PLD...

The $427 is only the rations.  I also pay $208 for my 10x12' room here, which I can't complain about, because even to rent a room in a house with others, you're looking at $400 a month.  And get this... the male's building has free internet, while I had to pay to have mine installed and pay monthly.  We pay the same amount for quarters.  Their rooms are a bit smaller, but I'd rather have free internet than space, hahaha!

I do have a vehicle, which I bought 3 years before I joined, and I'm not sad I have it.  I have to get off base sometimes, hahaha!  But yes, paying a vehicle, phone, insurance, gas, internet, etc, it adds up.

I can see the reasoning for wanting people to live out, but with current recruiting trends, the bases are going to get busier before they get emptier! 

**As far as food spending goes, by the end of a month, I dish out a lot more than the $427.  The mess doesn't provide me with snacks or drinks, so I have to buy juice, bottled water (rusty pipes here,) milk, pop, and other food out of my own pocket.  Or if I'd like to go out to eat, with friends or family, you can easily tack on another $30 for each time.  Needless to say, I don't eat out much!

 

[aesop081]

Anyone you know in the shacks that could split an appt with you ?

Lots of guys did that when i lived in....was the only way to afford it