Simon Logan v. Her Majesty The Queen

[CampCricket]

CLASS ACTION REGARDING THE CALCULATION OF LONG TERM DISABILITY BENEFITS UNDER DIVISION 2, PART III(B) of SISIP POLICY #901102

Simon Logan v. His Majesty The King

Federal Court of Canada Number T-1358-18

UPDATE: June 27, 2023

The Court’s order approving the settlement agreement has become final.

The administration of the settlement agreement can now proceed. With limited exceptions for deceased Class Members and Class Members with appeals, 50% of Class Members will receive their retroactive payment within one year of June 23, 2023 and each Class Member will receive their retroactive payment within two years of June 23, 2023.

Class Members will be advised of the amount of their retroactive payment at the time of payment. Class Counsel is unable to advise of the amount of payment before that time.

For more information, Please find the Court approved Notice of Settlement Approval here: Notice of Settlement Approval

 

[MidShipsMan]

I received a letter yesterday titled "Notice of Settlement Approval"

here are a couple things that the letter included that might answer some questions posted in this thread

"The Agreement provides that the retroactive payment received by Class Members as a result of the class action will not reduce the Class Member's benefits previously received from VAC, specifically the Earnings Loss Benefit or the Income Replacement Benefit (IRB)."

..."Following the recalculation of LTD to account for the inclusion of relevant monthly allowances, VAC will recalculate the IRB amount payable to each Class Member who continues to be entitled to IRB."

 

[gryphonv]

I've been reading through this last couple days. I'm curious how this will affect people who still collect IRB like those who are DEC.

The way I understand it now, is they should of still kept paying allowances like Sea/air/land, PLD, etc. During the 2+ years of manulife support post release.


What happens after that 2 years, does the allowances continue into perpetuity if someone is declared DEC?

I know in my case I lost my sea duty allowance when I was put on a PCAT, which I totally understood and kind of agreed with. I lost my PLD when I was released and started my SISIP manulife support along with the 15% top up from VAC.

Then the question comes to mind, if someone moved out of a PLD area into another, either, higher, lower or none, would they then have it changed? I doubt anyone here will have solid answers for this.

I'm sort of expecting my PLD that I had on release, would be calculated for 2 years and paid out/taxed accordingly. I don't expect them to retroactively apply sea duty as I was not on receipt of that for almost 2 years on PCAT.

I don't expect PLD to continue past the 2 years of Manulife benefits, but I can see the argument being made it should continue.

I know many of these questions won't be answered until we actually see what someone here gets, but this could end up being a pretty significant bump in income to some who had certain allowances, especially if they are DEC and it continues onward.

 

[Teager]

Why would it continue beyond the 2 years if you didn't qualify as totally disabled?

It's pretty straight forward you get whatever allowance you had on your release date for regs and at time of injury for class C. Does not matter if you moved to a different PLD area afterwards it's all about the day of release/time of injury. If any other allowance ceased before your release date even if it was a day before it does not count although in those instances appeals can be made.

VAC will be calculating anyone receiving a monthly increase from SISIP that is still continuing on LTD and clawing that back as it is stated in the court documents. So other than the lump sum payment and whatever someone gets up to the point of calculation it will not result in a bigger pay increase monthly but rather stay the same unless someone is strictly on SISIP LTD.

 

[gryphonv]

Why would it continue beyond the 2 years if you didn't qualify as totally disabled?

This is why I mentioned DEC.

I personally have my IRB for life, which reduces at 65. Because of DEC designation.

I'm sure others on here and in that class are in similar situations.

 

[Teager]

This is why I mentioned DEC.

I personally have my IRB for life, which reduces at 65. Because of DEC designation.

I'm sure others on here and in that class are in similar situations.

But DEC is a VAC program not a SISIP LTD one.

 

[gryphonv]

But DEC is a VAC program not a SISIP LTD one.

Yes.

Ok let me spell it out.

Maybe I'm not understanding this, or maybe you are not understanding what I'm asking.

My situation I went from SISIP LTD to VAC LTD to DEC . As SISIP cut off my benefits right at 2 years even though I was still disabled and not trained for future employment. Something I had issue with Manulife as I felt they were quick to get rid of me even though medical documentation I had suggested they shouldn't have been able to, but that's another discussion. In short, I was very disappointed with how Manulife treated me.

The transition between SISIP and VAC was pretty seamless, but If according to this my allowances should of carried over into Manulife, shouldn't they also carry over into VAC? If not, why not? At least for a couple years post SISIP Manulife I was on a full rehab program, just with a different side funding it. So technically the same program.

That is how I read into it.

Just to be clear, I didn't think this Class Action would succeed in the beginning, but it has so now I have these questions.

 

[Teager]

SISIP Manulife is a separate entity from VAC. They are not the same even though they have similarities.

Your saying that whatever you have from SISIP should transfer over to VAC if you are booted from SISIP? The 2 entities have different criteria that you have to meet. You may meet one not the other or both. This is similar to how those that have to apply to CPPD have to meet that criteria or same with disability tax credit. Each one has it's own criteria that you have to meet. You don't get an automatic pass into each one just because you got DEC or got accepted on SISIP beyond the 2 years.

I'm sure VAC has the language written differently then how SISIP had they're language written with regards to pay and allowances and this might be the reason why VAC will not be making that change. Since VAC claws back any monthly amount someone on SISIP makes it doesn't increase the overall monthly income amount.

 

[CampCricket]

SISIP is funded by the Canadian Forces and was intended mostly for those medically released to transition to civilian careers after 2 years. This program is governed by a different policy. Those that typically get extended after 2 years are those with complex issues related to injuries in a special duty area. The policy directives of this program was challenged in the class action…. Even though vac may pick you up if SISIP drops you…. They are separate programs administered by a different government dept…. It’s like saying the coast guard should pick you up because the navy dropped you…. They may have overlapping responsibilities but they are not the same dept and have separate policies and programs. For those that were on SISIP, and then were dropped… you will only see an adjustment for the years you qualified for disability under SISIP. Vac is not part of the class action… in fact, my understanding is that vac will treat the manulife adjustment like an offset and starting in 2022, they will deduct these addition payments from any IRB you get from them (ie. The 15% top up). So those of us that will be getting our LTD recalculated, maybe no further ahead unless we qualified for many or a significant monthly allowance(s).

 

[Teager]

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.6962658

 

[gryphonv]

https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.6962658

Good to see it on a news site. It might inform some of those who otherwise don't know they are eligible.

 

[Porkenstien]

my understanding is that vac will treat the manulife adjustment like an offset and starting in 2022, they will deduct these addition payments from any IRB you get from them (ie. The 15% top up).

I’m not disputing this, I’m just wondering where you got that from.

I read the court decision posted on the lawyers website but I’m not a lawyer myself and don’t understand everything in there. Does it specify that VAC will claw it back?

 

[Teager]

I’m not disputing this, I’m just wondering where you got that from.

I read the court decision posted on the lawyers website but I’m not a lawyer myself and don’t understand everything in there. Does it specify that VAC will claw it back?

Yes, it does state that VAC will claw back monthly payment increases. They will not claw back the lump sum or any monthly amount received up until they make the claw back calculation.

 

[Porkenstien]

Ok. That’s unfortunate.

I believe you, but it still doesn’t make sense to me. I get that VAC and SISIP are separate entities, but the lawsuit was against the crown’s and SISIP’s interpretation of the crown’s policy. Since both VAC and SISIP work under direction of that same policy, surely the same argument that the court settled would apply to VAC too?

Again, I’m no lawyer. I’m just some dude trying to understand. Can you point me at the specific wording and/or where to find it? I’d appreciate it.

Cheers.

 

[dapaterson]

Ok. That’s unfortunate.

I believe you, but it still doesn’t make sense to me. I get that VAC and SISIP are separate entities, but the lawsuit was against the crown’s and SISIP’s interpretation of the crown’s policy. Since both VAC and SISIP work under direction of that same policy, surely the same argument that the court settled would apply to VAC too?

Again, I’m no lawyer. I’m just some dude trying to understand. Can you point me at the specific wording and/or where to find it? I’d appreciate it.

Cheers.

VAC benefits and SISIP benefits are separate and different. The case hinged on contract interpretation - the Manulife insurance contract. It did not refer to any act of parliament nor regulation issued under an act of parliament.

 

[Teager]

Ok. That’s unfortunate.

I believe you, but it still doesn’t make sense to me. I get that VAC and SISIP are separate entities, but the lawsuit was against the crown’s and SISIP’s interpretation of the crown’s policy. Since both VAC and SISIP work under direction of that same policy, surely the same argument that the court settled would apply to VAC too?

Again, I’m no lawyer. I’m just some dude trying to understand. Can you point me at the specific wording and/or where to find it? I’d appreciate it.

Cheers.

"
For Class Members in receipt of ongoing monthly LTD benefits on January 1, 2022, those benefits will continue to be calculated with the inclusion of relevant monthly allowances in a Class Members’ monthly pay up to the end of the LTD claim. Following the recalculation of LTD to account for the inclusion of relevant monthly allowances, VAC will recalculate the IRB amount payable to each Class Member who continues to be entitled to IRB."

SISIP LTD Allowances Class Action Lawyers | McInnes Cooper

Class Action regarding the calculation of long-term disability benefits under Division 2, Part III(B) of SISIP Policy #901102. Parties are proceeding with settlement discussions.

www.mcinnescooper.com

Click on Notice of Settlement then scroll down to "what does the agreement provide"

 

[thecowboy]

Hi Everyone, Can anyone tell me if there's any update on when SISIP will start paying people. I live in USA since 2016, and I retired in 2007 and was on LTD and been on since then, so I should get somethings back ???

 

[Teager]

Hi Everyone, Can anyone tell me if there's any update on when SISIP will start paying people. I live in USA since 2016, and I retired in 2007 and was on LTD and been on since then, so I should get somethings back ???

You might be entitled if you were recieving a monthly allowance at time of release. SISIP has 2 years to payout they are suppose to pay 50% of the class within the first year. As of right now nobody has been paid.

Click the link in the post above yours it will take you to the lawyers website which has their contact info. Contact them and ask if you are part of the class.

 

[thecowboy]

Thanks, when I got out in 2007, they were supposedly pay me 75% of my salary which was about $5075 monthly, they still dont give me that amount as of today, I'm getting about $3900 a month. So if I understand they have to pay me all the year from july 2012 to dec 2021 ?? That is a lot of money

 

[Teager]

Thanks, when I got out in 2007, they were supposedly pay me 75% of my salary which was about $5075 monthly, they still dont give me that amount as of today, I'm getting about $3900 a month. So if I understand they have to pay me all the year from july 2012 to dec 2021 ?? That is a lot of money

Technically 75% of 5075 is 3806 so what your getting is correct.

This lawsuit speaks to monthly allowances received at time of release like PLD and should have been included with your salary. If you were not receiving an allowance on the day you released then you would not be entitled.to any amount.

If you were recieving an allowance then the amount depends on how much your allowance was per month.