Should the C-6 MMG be upgraded??

[421 EME]

OK we are talking about upgrades here and not a replacement. The C-6 MMG is one of the better small arms that we use in the CF but has never been upgraded. The upgrades would be for the C-6 in the dismounted role and not for the mounted role (COAX, Anti-Air).
Lets hear what you have to say.

 

[George Wallace]

Now having had played with the C-6 long before the Inf got their hands on it, I have to wonder why the Gas Plug is such a screwed up piece of kit in the Ground role.  The 3 posn Gas Plug/Regulator that we had in the Coax was great, even if they were modified for only one rate of fire.  The mods to the Inf Gas Plug/regulator are horrid. 

 

[George Wallace]

One problem I have run into in the Coyote, was the retaining pin that held the pistol grip and trigger mech on.  I had one pop out on a Battle Run which resulted in a Runaway gun.  Rather embarrassing when the OC is in the Coyote right on your tail.

 

[vonGarvin]

I'll chime in here.
Is there anything that you would see the C-6 GPMG be able to do that it does not do now? 

(As an aside, the C6 is not an MMG, though it can be employed as such.  It is technically a GPMG, and it can be employed as an LMG or as an MMG.  I know, I know..."details")

Other than keeping the component parts maintained or replaced as they wear, I think that everything from the SF Kit complete to the inner components of the gun itself are fine as they are.  The only thing I could see as being upgraded would be the C2A1 sight (commonly referred to as the C2 sight).  If there were a way to incorporate a GPS and a compass of sorts to allow for the use of indirect fire much more easy, then that is something that I could see being "upgraded" on it.

EDIT (due to George Wallace being faster on the reply than I)
The gas plug should, IMPO, revert the former plug (eg: 3 position plug George mentions)

 

[dapaterson]

Although, frequently, the biggest problem with the gas plug is the plug on the other end of the weapon.

 

[421 EME]

George we have been using the Coax gas reg in the C-6 flex (dismount) for a few years now and it works great.
That retaining pin is a pain in the a** for the Coax, when the CCs are doing there drills they sometime push on the retaining pin thinking its the Safety and then when they start to fire it shakes loose and the trigger mech falls off and there is your runaway gun.

 

[421 EME]

My bad, the gas reg that is now used in the C-6 Flex is the 3 position reg for the bow mounted C-6 in the Leo ARV and AEV.

 

[George Wallace]

My bad, the gas reg that is now used in the C-6 Flex is the 3 position reg for the bow mounted C-6 in the Leo ARV and AEV.

Now the question arises:  When do all the rest receive the conversion?

 

[Fusaki]

Aside from the gas plug, the only other change I'd make is the addition of rails for optics and lasers.

It would be really swell too if they'd issue out the soft bags for teaser belts:

 

[George Wallace]

George we have been using the Coax gas reg in the C-6 flex (dismount) for a few years now and it works great.
That retaining pin is a pain in the a** for the Coax, when the CCs are doing there drills they sometime push on the retaining pin thinking its the Safety and then when they start to fire it shakes loose and the trigger mech falls off and there is your runaway gun.

There is a fix for that.  A hinged pin, or a hinged clip on the end of the pin.


Could you post a photo of the plug we are talking about.  The Gas Plug on the Leo was different than that on the ARV, if I recall correctly.

 

[421 EME]

The C-6 Flex, ARV, AEV have a 3 position gas reg with a screwed on retaining nut that is held in place with a C-clip. The barrels for these types with only fit this type of reg.

The C-6 Coax (LAV III, Leo and Coyote) is a 3 position reg with a ring type retaining nut that is held in place by a spring and plunger. ( Just like the one one the C-9 LMG )

Once I am off leave I will take some pics of the 2 types and post them here.

The reason the gas reg is not the same on the Leo for Coax and the Leo ARV and AEV is the the room in the bow mount will not allow the Coax gas reg to fit due to the ring type retaining nut. The ARV gas reg retaining nut is about a 1/2 inch in Dia smaller than the Coax retaining nut.

 

[George Wallace]

It is the Retaining nut that I think really needs to be converted to the same type as on the Leo, LAV III and Coyote.  The one on the ground role sucks.  The spring and plunger was so much easier to change/remove. 

 

[vonGarvin]

Aside from the gas plug, the only other change I'd make is the addition of rails for optics and lasers.

It would be really swell too if they'd issue out the soft bags for teaser belts:

I would offer that no rails be added for optics or lasers, and here's why.
The GPMG, either light or SF role, has no need for them (optics/lasers).  They are platoon weapons, they are area weapons, and yes, I am certain that there are times/places where a laser or optics would be useful; however, given that they are platoon weapons, and that they are area weapons, and given the drills when firing them, I would say "no".  Also, once you add rails for that stuff (though there is a method to use add-on sights with them without modification to the gun), you start getting DLR involved.  Once that starts:
:endnigh:

 

[basrah]

Aside from the gas plug, the only other change I'd make is the addition of rails for optics and lasers.

It would be really swell too if they'd issue out the soft bags for teaser belts:

Everyone seems to be mistaking the gas plug for the gas regulator. The only potential upgrade I could see would be reverting to the gas regulator we used a few years back, the one where you didnt have to unscrew everything.

As for rails and lasers... what kind of lasers are we talking about here? LRF arent really needed, since there really arent many dismounted versions in the system, and there are many alternatives for judging distance. Optical sights also dont have much place on a gun this size... heck, I dont even think the C9 should have one.

The more stuff we start adding to this gun, the more problems are going to come up.

 

[George Wallace]

The reason the gas reg is not the same on the Leo for Coax and the Leo ARV and AEV is the the room in the bow mount will not allow the Coax gas reg to fit due to the ring type retaining nut. The ARV gas reg retaining nut is about a 1/2 inch in Dia smaller than the Coax retaining nut.

What!  The Germans didn't design something to perfection.  The horror.



As to rails and lasers........That is why we have BOT.  Much simpler and cheaper.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

George's favorite gun, circa 1994 I still piss myself when I recall that afternoon on the range ;D

 

[1feral1]

The Flex MAG 58 MG on armoured veh's (Aust), has the coax type gas reg, which is very much user friendly. it would be nice if this was incorperated on all guns, but this would be costly.

There already is a Picatinny rail on the feed cover, and one can adapt the C2 sight to the reciever.

The US manufacured M240B, has a barrel shroud and a different type flash suppressor.

However, the US bipod differes from the standard FN MG, and in my opinion is inferior.

I find all bipods weak and too light for the gun, Australia has incorperated a 'bipod heavy duty', but this is now being removed from the system through attrition. We replace bipods often.

My 2 cents.

Pics- standard Aust Mag 58, US M240B, and the Aust 'heavy duty' MAG 58

 

[a_majoor]

A rail for a laser really isn't needed for the gun either in the light role or the SF role.

Things to get:

An integrated sight unit which can input GPS data to allow for quick and easy indirect fire calculations. If this is not possible then some sort of ballistic calculator.

Replacing the SF kit with something similar made of Titanium or composite materials. It will cost a fortune, but the reduction in weight will be well worth it.

A barrel made of ceramic composite materials which can sustain fire longer before being changed. If it is lighter than the current barrel so much the better. (NB, ceramic composite materials do exist which can take high heat and shock without breaking. Experimental car engines and some high performance turbine engines use these materials already.)

The "old" three position gas regulator, although I can do without the "split collar".

The "teaser belt" holder.

Increase the size of the barrel lock so changing barrels is faster and easier (especially when doing a hot barrel change)

 

[George Wallace]

George's favorite gun, circa 1994 I still piss myself when I recall that afternoon on the range ;D

Really freaked out the Doctors, Nurses and Med A's.  ;D  But that was a C-9.  You were off to the left with the C-6s.  I still have no idea where that 12" blade went from the screwdriver. 

 

[JimmyPeeOn]

Why not add rails to the C6?
If there is anyone I would want to be able to see where he is shooting, its usually the man with the most firepower.  and;  we all know how hard it is to get a sight picture on the C6 iron's while wearing a head set and/or goggles.

If it is going to increase the versatility, and not sacrifice anything in the in-direct role, we should go for it.

There are several uses for optical sights/AN/Peq=2 on GPMG's. 

The U.S Army has rails on the M240 and they are used frequently.  Almost every U.S M240 I have seen has had some sort of optics on it.  The troops had a fair amount of lee-way with the optics on their weapons, and if 90% of the troops mounted optics on the 240's, they just might be on to something. 

Keep in mind these guys were Infantry and Engineers using it in the light role, dismounted.

At night I think the PEQ-2 and MNVG mounted directly on the MG could be quite advantageous in a defensive.




I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the hydraulic buffer system in the butt-stock assembly.  That thing  would increase reliability and reduce wear and tear on the receivers.

Cheers