Sept 2023 UKR Vet Recognition Incident (merged from several threads)

[Humphrey Bogart]

Wait ! We have friends ?
What we have are allies not friends, no nation has friends what we have are interests. And each nation is the sole judge of what it takes to protect , sustain and grow those interests.

The only saving grace is it seems the recent missteps: Standing ovation for a former Waffen SS member in the HofC, This India shitshow, etc seem to have finally made almost everyone on all sides realize the doorknobs we have in office are unfit for the job!

 

[Kirkhill]

The only saving grace is it seems the recent missteps: Standing ovation for a former Waffen SS member in the HofC, This India shitshow, etc seem to have finally made almost everyone on all sides realize the doorknobs we have in office are unfit for the job!

And history gets complicated again. Enemy of my enemy time.

Ukraine and Finland were both stuck between Stalin and Hitler. And Stalin starved Ukraine and invaded Finland.

Whose side are you on?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

And history gets complicated again. Enemy of my enemy time.

Ukraine and Finland were both stuck between Stalin and Hitler. And Stalin starved Ukraine and invaded Finland.

Whose side are you on?

The side that doesn't let Nazis receive a standing ovation in the HofC. At no time ever is that OK.

The Brits were eager to let the former Waffen SS members settle in Canada post-war though, because it meant they didn't have to let them in to the UK .

The 14th Galician SS Division actually surrendered to the British 8th Army so they didn't have to surrender to the Red Army.

 

[RangerRay]

: Standing ovation for a former Waffen SS member in the HofC,

Wait, what…?

 

[Kirkhill]

The side that doesn't let Nazis receive a standing ovation in the HofC. At no time ever is that OK.

The Brits were eager to let the former Waffen SS members settle in Canada post-war though, because it meant they didn't have to let them in to the UK .

The 14th Galician SS Division actually surrendered to the British 8th Army so they didn't have to surrender to the Red Army.

Wanna place a bet that Chechens you met in Afghanistan are now fighting for Ukraine?

Or are they fighting for Russia?

 

[Kirkhill]

Wait, what…?

The Ukrainian given the standing ovation fought with Hitler's Germans against Stalin's Russians.

 

[RangerRay]

The Ukrainian given the standing ovation fought with Hitler's Germans against Stalin's Russians.

The only Ukrainian I know who got a standing ovation in the HoC was President Zelensky, but I don’t think he was around during WWII.

 

[Kirkhill]

The only Ukrainian I know who got a standing ovation in the HoC was President Zelensky, but I don’t think he was around during WWII.

Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament's ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis

Yaroslav Hunka was part of SS Galichina, a unit whose history has been whitewashed by veterans groups in the West

forward.com

 

[RangerRay]

Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament's ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis

Yaroslav Hunka was part of SS Galichina, a unit whose history has been whitewashed by veterans groups in the West

forward.com

Oh jeez…

 

[Kirkhill]

Well, he moved the dial.
At least enough to stop the fall

338Canada Canada | Poll Analysis & Electoral Projections

338canada.com

 

[Czech_pivo]

Not sure what to say about this if it’s true.
I mean, you’ve got a Jewish-Ukrainian President clapping for a Ukrainian Canadian former member of an SS Division, along with having meetings with a Ukrainian Canadian Minister of Finance who’s grandfather was a Ukrainian collaborator for the Nazi’s - do I laugh or do I cry?
I want it to be published which member of Parliament invited this individual, this needs to be known.

Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament’s ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis​

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Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Wait, what…?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705999466350727629

https://twitter.com/x/status/1706008796009742466

 

[dapaterson]

I know a guy whose maternal grandfather served in the “Desert Rats” in British Army, and whose paternal grandfather served in the Afrika Corps.

There was a non-zero chance they shot at each other.

Before or after 1945?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Wanna place a bet that Chechens you met in Afghanistan are now fighting for Ukraine?

Or are they fighting for Russia?

Ask Kadyrov. It's an irrelevant argument anyways....

7 million Ukrainians fought for the Red Army in WW2, 250,000 fought for the Nazis.

We chose to parade our enemy in front of the masses and have handed Putler an amazing propaganda victory.

The Putin Regime doesn't even need to try, the lines write themselves at this point

 

[Remius]

…and the India gambit is far from victorious culmination by le Dauphin…

Three things could factor. India, the new housing initiatives, and Zelenski’s visit. Any of those could go either way.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Not sure what to say about this if it’s true.
I mean, you’ve got a Jewish-Ukrainian President clapping for a Ukrainian Canadian former member of an SS Division, along with having meetings with a Ukrainian Canadian Minister of Finance who’s grandfather was a Ukrainian collaborator for the Nazi’s - do I laugh or do I cry?
I want it to be published which member of Parliament invited this individual, this needs to be known.

Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament’s ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis​

Google News

Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

Google News

Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

And RUS media's on this (archived link here)...

... as well as some Jewish response, too ...

Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament's ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis

Yaroslav Hunka was part of SS Galichina, a unit whose history has been whitewashed by veterans groups in the West

forward.com

Jewish group demands apology after MPs honoured man who fought for Nazis

OTTAWA - Several Jewish advocacy organizations are condemning members of Parliament for giving a standing ovat...

lethbridgenewsnow.com

As mentioned upthread and elsewhere, complicated optics of the history here. Hate the Germans? Fight for the Commies who end up keeping you under their boot for some time following "liberation". Hate the Commies? Fight for the Germans with some folks who were happy to help them out in the final solution (not to mention pissing off Poles and Slovaks along the way) as a way to get rid of the Reds that starved you not long before the war.

And the transition from Nazi fighters to staunch anti-Communist fighters? Via Wikipedia with the usual caveats ....

... On 17 March 1945, Ukrainian émigrés established the Ukrainian National Committee to represent the interests of Ukrainians to the Third Reich. Simultaneously, the Ukrainian National Army, commanded by general Pavlo Shandruk, was created. The Galician Division was renamed to 1st Division of the Ukrainian National Army. However, there is no proof to demonstrate that the renaming was done formally and the German Army's High command continued to list it as the Ukrainian 14th SS Grenadier Division in its order of battle.[32][33] The division surrendered to British and US forces by 10 May 1945 ...

As for atrocities, again via Wikipedia ...

... Although the Waffen-SS as a whole was declared to be a criminal organization at the Nuremberg Trials, the Galician Division has not specifically been found guilty of any war crimes by any war tribunal or commission. However, numerous accusations of impropriety have been leveled at the division, and at particular members of the division, from a variety of sources. It is difficult to determine the extent of war criminality among members of the division.[40] If prior service in Nazi police units is a measure of criminality, only a small number were recruited from established police detachments. Among those who had transferred from police detachments, some had been members of a coastal defence unit that had been stationed in France, while others came from two police battalions that had been formed in the spring of 1943, too late to have participated in the murder of Ukraine's Jews. According to Howard Margolian, there is no evidence that these units participated in anti-partisan operations or reprisals prior to their inclusion into the division. However, before their service within the police battalions, a number of recruits are alleged to have been in Ukrainian irregular formations that are alleged to have committed atrocities against Jews and Communists. Nevertheless, in their investigations of the division, both the Canadian government and the Canadian Jewish Congress failed to find hard evidence to support the notion that it was rife with criminal elements ...

It can be very, very broadly compared to the whole Confederate issue in the U.S.: were the soldiers just doing their best for something they believed in while feeling jerked around, or were they happily defending and upholding slavery? Often all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Three things could factor. India, the new housing initiatives, and Zelenski’s visit. Any of those could go either way.

Funny you should mention that ...

House Speaker Anthony Rota apologizes after inviting man who fought for Nazis to Parliament

Several Jewish advocacy organizations condemned members of Parliament on Sunday for giving a standing ovation to a man who fought for a Nazi unit during the Second World War.

www.ctvnews.ca

Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament's ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis

Yaroslav Hunka was part of SS Galichina, a unit whose history has been whitewashed by veterans groups in the West

forward.com

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I want it to be published which member of Parliament invited this individual, this needs to be known ...

According to CTV, "Hunka was invited by Speaker Anthony Rota, who introduced him as a war hero who fought for the First Ukrainian Division."

Now, who asked Rota?

Mod note: Since this seems to be heading into discussing the Canadian political side of the developments, I'm moving just these bits to the thread on current management's current woes.

 

[OldSolduer]

According to CTV, "Hunka was invited by Speaker Anthony Rota, who introduced him as a war hero who fought for the First Ukrainian Division."

Now, who asked Rota?

Mod note: Since this seems to be heading into discussing the Canadian political side of the developments, I'm moving just these bits to the thread on current management's current woes.

Who has Ukrainian heritage in cabinet? Hmmmm oh maybe CF?

 

[Eaglelord17]

It can be very, very broadly compared to the whole Confederate issue in the U.S.: were the soldiers just doing their best for something they believed in while feeling jerked around, or were they happily defending and upholding slavery? Often all in the eye of the beholder.

Keep in mind the Ukraine was genocided before the Nazis showed up and offered to help them fight the people who did it to them.

Not a easy point in history to apply right or wrong to, both the Nazis and Soviets were very similar in their brutality and oppression, at least you could say a Ukrainian at that point wouldn’t have known much/anything about the german side yet.