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Second CC-177 operational

Yes, C17s have been used for Airborne ops....
but, our C117s are presently being used for strategic lift.. not tactical... those are left to the CC130s
At present, we aren't applying doctrine where we would deploy paras in Afghanistan.... Heliborne - yes, para - no.
 
March 10th for the Aussies . .  .  article says they are working up to air drops of troops & supplies . . .  Tac Air.

There is a video around somewhere of US deploying from a 3 ship flight  . . .  lotsa chutes in a really short time. 

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_article/3072/4th-Boeing-C-17-Globemaster-III-Delivered-to-the-RAAF.html



4th Boeing C-17 Globemaster III Delivered to the RAAF
Posted on: Mar. 10th, 2008 || Source: Royal Australian Air Force | E-mail Article | Print Article

4th Boeing C-17 Globemaster III Delivered to the RAAF
The fourth Boeing C-17A Globemaster III has been delivered to the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), completing Australia’s fleet.

The aircraft touched down at RAAF Amberley near Ipswich yesterday evening, and will be operated by No. 36 Squadron.

“Australia’s four C-17s have been delivered on time and on budget. This success highlights the excellent cooperation between the Royal Australian Air Force, Defence Materiel Organisation, the Boeing Company and US Air Force,” Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd said.

“The first Globemaster entered RAAF service in December 2006, and these aircraft have already made a positive impact in supporting Australian Defence Force operations.”

Globemasters have supported Operation Catalyst (Iraq), Operation PNG Assist, Operation Astute (Timor-Leste), Exercise Red Flag 2007, Exercise Bersama Shield 2007 and Exercise Talisman Saber 2007.

Air Force accepted the fourth aircraft in January this year at the Boeing facility at Long Beach California. The aircraft has since been fitted with aircraft self protection equipment.

No. 36 Squadron achieved an Initial Operational Capability with the C-17A in September 2007, and is working towards more complex roles including the airdrop of personnel and cargo and high dependency aero-medical evacuation. Full Operational Capability is scheduled for end of 2011, with the completion of in-country training systems and permanent facilities for No. 36 Squadron at RAAF Amberley.

 
ProPatria031 said:
I wonder, would it be possible to do airborn Ops with it? if so we could load a whole jump coy in the back of that beast.  ;D

Yes.

We will get there one day.
One step at a time.

Our long term goal/plan/doctrine is to perform airdrop with the C-17 aircraft as well as with the C-130J.
Currently we simply don't have the crews trained yet to even perform the shear volume of airland taskings that are being piled onto the plate of 429 Sqn.  We are trying hard to meet operational requirements as well as force generate qualified aircrew and technicians as quickly and as safely as possible.  Performing airdrop operations simply isn't feasible or safe right now given the current tempo of operations.


The one difference that the RAAF has over the Canadian Air Force is that the Australians have one year (from delivery of their first aircraft) to train their crews before being mandated for operations.  The Commander 1 Cdn Air Div gave us 5 days, yes days, count them ...................... 5 days.

So the few instructors that we have ... we can barely count them on one hand ... are trying to train the new crewmembers and to also fulfill the lines of required taskings for CANOSCOM and CEFCOM and all the other COMs that are now banging on the Air Div's door demanding that they use the new aircraft.  We're being pulled in way too many different directions right now, and we have barely taken delivery of the entire fleet, and we have barely declared IOC let alone FOC.

We'll get around to airdrop one day ... soon hopefully.
The C-17 is very good at dropping Heavy Equipment, CDS and also Personnel, low level static line, or personnel high altitude HAHO/HALO for standoff insertion.
It also does JPADS and PGADS very accurately as well from high altitudes.

Furthermore, the rest of the CF must also adjust to meet the infrastructure change associated with airdrop - it is not as simple as sticking a bunch of stuff in the back and then shoving it out the door in flight.

CFLAWC, the TAMS & MAMS folks and the riggers will have to shift gear as we transition away from the archaic method of rigging HE in the back of the legacy C-130s (nobody else in the world does it this way anymore so I don't know why we still do - a refusal to change I suppose).  The C-17 and the C-130J now do HE airdorp using the EFTC HE pallets - something Canada does not possess.  So now, we have to get rid of all those old pallets, buy the new ones and then train a whole host of folks in blue and green on how to rig this new stuff.  The good news is - it'll now only take 30 minutes to rig the back of the aircraft for HE instead of 6 hours.

There's also a new training bill for the folks who wish to jump out of the aircraft - the drill is slightly different as there is now an amber light that comes on between the red and the lime light.  Go figure - the static line is also longer as well.  So now CFLAWC has to develop a way of keeping the C-130J static line chutes separate from the C-17 static line chutes.  The Americans use the standard yellow for the 16' static lines for the C-130s and blue for the new 20' C-17 static lines.

There is a much bigger infrastructure cost to airdrop - and we have to get a whole lot of the CF "on-line" with airdrop before we start - it's not just a matter of telling a bunch of blue Air Force types in Trenton to "Get with it, come on lets go".  A lot of purple and green will have to adapt and change as well.  Its a whole new paradigm out there.

Right now the CF is having a tough time adjusting to simple use of the C-17 in the strategic airland role - it'll be a big change for airdrop.

One step at a time.
We need to walk first and then we will try running.
 
You do realize that as soon as the CC-177 is approved for para - the boys in Orange will be getting it tasked to support their jump camps. 

If it flies, they try and jump out of it.
 
Globesmasher, LOTS of information there. Thanks as always.

I think I asked you this before, but from what I read it seems that we require more then the 4 tails that we have received. Is this the case?
 
From a point of curiosity... if a 16ft static line is good for CC130 jumps and 20ft lines is good for a C117 jump.....
wouldn't a 20ft line work on the CC130s?... or is the additional 4 ft essential for canopy deployment / safety margin for reserve shutes, etc...
 
geo said:
From a point of curiosity... if a 16ft static line is good for CC130 jumps and 20ft lines is good for a C117 jump.....
wouldn't a 20ft line work on the CC130s?... or is the additional 4 ft essential for canopy deployment / safety margin for reserve shutes, etc...

The Maple Leaf on my jump wings are only red - I'll let a guy with the white Maple Leaf answer that one.
I simply don't know the answer to that one.

 
If I was guessing,  the longer lines would handle the need to fall further from the aircraft before parachute deployment due to:

increased speed of a C17 over a Herc so they want the parachutists to drop further due to closeness of the deployment door to the tail control surfaces,
need to get further out the C17 slipstream

but I'm guessing  . . . . 
 
heh... I figured that out for myself.  I was just wondering if the additional 4 ft of static line would make a lot of difference if used on a Herc.  Considering the rate of fall, I wouldn't think that the fraction of a second it takes to fall 4 ft would make a big differnce ...but - I'm not the one wearing the parachute.
 
Haletown said:
increased speed of a C17 over a Herc so they want the parachutists to drop further due to closeness of the deployment door to the tail control surfaces,

Nope - same speeds for the C-130 and the C-17 during the drop phase.

For the C-17 ...... jumpers will be forced, by the slipstream, into and slightly under the aircraft - hence the requirement for the extra 4' of static line - it is just to ensure that they really are absolutely clear of the aircraft before deployment begins.  However, that being said, I do not know why the longer static line cannot be used on the C-130 ... not a bad suggestion by Geo, but I simply don't have the answer to that one.



 
Geo,

I'm not sure about the extra four feet of tangled lines and deployment bags trailing behind a Herc and whether they could foul a control surface. There also may be safety considerations for a hungup jumper, but again that is a guess. Hopefully an expert (I last jumped in July 1977, so I am waaay out of date.) will join the discussion soon.
 
What's the ramp speed for the CC-177?  When it gets tasked for CFSSAR's jump phase, the boys will be cannon-balling off the back the fastest they can get.  :)
 
Zoomie said:
What's the ramp speed for the CC-177?  When it gets tasked for CFSSAR's jump phase, the boys will be cannon-balling off the back the fastest they can get.  :)

250 KCAS.

I don't think anybody wants to be hitting the slipstream at that speed though ... yikes.
 
Globesmasher said:
The Maple Leaf on my jump wings are only red - I'll let a guy with the white Maple Leaf answer that one.
I simply don't know the answer to that one.
Wait a minute.  You're a pilot, with jump wings?  Does this mean you don't trust pilots either?  >:D
 
Tsk tsk...ALWAYS trust your equipment...but having a way helps too.
 
Umm.... Always have a "Plan B" in your back pocket >:D
 
Mortarman Rockpainter said:
Wait a minute.  You're a pilot, with jump wings?  Does this mean you don't trust pilots either?   >:D

LOL!

You know for years, while flying the Herc, I've always wanted to jump out (as the actual aircrew) midway through flight to scare the hell out of the jumpers in the back.
For all the times that I have supported CPC either during CON PARA or during J stage of BPARA I have always thought to myself .....

"Hhmmm, OK, these guys see me standing in the back doing the crew brief with the LMs and the JMs.  They're then going to see me walk up front and into the flight deck, then we're going to go flying, so they're going to assume I'm the one driving since they've seen me do the brief and I'm the one wearing the poorly fitting zoom bag, and they haven't seen any other pilots.  But, once we're over the DZ and stable in drop config, I would just love to have some other crew actually fly the aircraft, and then just haul ass out back  ..... run down the length of the cargo compartment with a paniced look on my face and jab off the back of the ramp on my own .......... just to see what everyone else thinks/does".

Is that an obscure thought?

OK, that was a bad thread hijack ................ back on topic.
 
One hijack is as good/bad as any other.

You Globesmasher have certainly earned this little bit of sillyness...
(would be even sillyer if the plane did an initial flyby the DZ - you'd walk up to the front door, pop it open and jump while everyone is looking - preparing to jump from the rear :) )
 
Globesmasher said:
LOL!

You know for years, while flying the Herc, I've always wanted to jump out (as the actual aircrew) midway through flight to scare the hell out of the jumpers in the back.
For all the times that I have supported CPC either during CON PARA or during J stage of BPARA I have always thought to myself .....

"Hhmmm, OK, these guys see me standing in the back doing the crew brief with the LMs and the JMs.  They're then going to see me walk up front and into the flight deck, then we're going to go flying, so they're going to assume I'm the one driving since they've seen me do the brief and I'm the one wearing the poorly fitting zoom bag, and they haven't seen any other pilots.  But, once we're over the DZ and stable in drop config, I would just love to have some other crew actually fly the aircraft, and then just haul ass out back  ..... run down the length of the cargo compartment with a paniced look on my face and jab off the back of the ramp on my own .......... just to see what everyone else thinks/does".

Is that an obscure thought?

OK, that was a bad thread hijack ................ back on topic.

Sounds like a good way to start your retirement a couple of days early.....
 
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