"Safe" Injection and "Reduced" Harm good for society? Don't think so

[Fishbone Jones]

and then there are those who have witnessed the damage caused. It is one thing to have removed the criminal implications for simple possession or even production for personal use it is something else entirely to put the full force of our marketing to work to encourage its use. Consider tobacco. Its use has been demonized for years to the extent that the product comes in a plain wrapped package and is stored behind an unmarked door. No advertising and no photos are permitted. Now contrast that with the signs on the streets indicating the location of your local drug store. Tobacco is a definite health hazard and recognized as such but so is cannabis. Why treat them differently

I've had plenty of experience. Not trying to diminish what you went through, but you're not unique.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That no one is ever allowed to make a counter-point with you seems to be the common point.

Over the top much??
Huh, I'll have to tell my best buddy while I'm getting him another Diet Mountain Dew to mix with his weed drink that he cant be my friend no more.

Much as yourself to whatever I post.

 

[YZT580]

I've had plenty of experience. Not trying to diminish what you went through, but you're not unique.

correct, I am not and the fact that I'm not means that we have created a problem where we didn't have to. Pot is a drug and should be marketed in the same manner as any other potentially harmful drug and I emphasize the potential part and not encouraged because it isn't as bad as alcohol (unproven. It has other effects) We have a pot lounge and coffee bar in our community advertised by signs posted on the roads leading through.

 

[TCM621]

I've never witnessed someone jonesing for cannabis.

I have, it was worse than cigarettes but better than alcohol, at least from the outside looking in. He wasn't a joint a day kind of guy but multiple times a day, every day, for years. He was also a particularly addictive person who was a smoker and alcoholic as well. It isn't common, but until very recently it was hard to get the amount of weed it took to develop an addiction. I expect there to be a lot more now that cannabis is as easy to get as alcohol.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I have, it was worse than cigarettes but better than alcohol, at least from the outside looking in. He wasn't a joint a day kind of guy but multiple times a day, every day, for years. He was also a particularly addictive person who was a smoker and alcoholic as well. It isn't common, but until very recently it was hard to get the amount of weed it took to develop an addiction. I expect there to be a lot more now that cannabis is as easy to get as alcohol.

So funny thing about addiction is that it usually is a genetic predisposition based on a neurodeficiency of either dopamine or serotonin.

When we consume anything... food, booze, porn, pot, gambling, watching a sunset, social media "runner's high", etc... it releases those neurochemicals, develops neural pathways in our brains, and those neural pathways become "push button, get banana" impulses that our brains give out to those brain chemicals.

Some substances or processes affect others differently, as well as the damage they can do to people physically, mentally, and socially. Additionally, the impact of the substance and process can wane over time as they become habitual. That's why I could down a 2-4 and feel nothing after a while. It's also why chugging coffee does fuck all for most of us, compared to my 16 year old.

There is so very much that impacts how and when a substance or process will affect an individual. It's actually both brilliant and terrifying to think about how our brains can lead us to self destruct if we let them.

That said, it's risk assessment, risk mitigation, and (sadly) societal norms that dictate what is an acceptable "addiction" and what is not. A lot of times, it doesn't become an issue until it's affecting someone else.

IMHO, alcohol, cocaine, methamphetamine, and opiates are at a much more damaging societal level than cannabis, caffeine, or other psychotropic drugs like Psilocybin or LSD (under control and supervision ofcourse). In any of it, too much of something is always bad.

All this to say, it's not the poison that you're addicted to (and it can vary across generations and populations) its the dopamine is giving you.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

correct, I am not and the fact that I'm not means that we have created a problem where we didn't have to. Pot is a drug and should be marketed in the same manner as any other potentially harmful drug and I emphasize the potential part and not encouraged because it isn't as bad as alcohol (unproven. It has other effects) We have a pot lounge and coffee bar in our community advertised by signs posted on the roads leading through.

Are bars not advertised. Liquor stores? Beer stores?

 

[mariomike]

Interesting comparison - maybe it's just a matter of time? After all, tobacco sure had it's own heyday not all that long ago ....
View attachment 79038

Never tried marijuana. But, did love my cigarettes.

A guy used to say to the girls, "I don't drink. I don't smoke. Two outta three ain't bad!"

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Are bars not advertised. Liquor stores? Beer stores?

Yes they are, but I can't consume any of those things in the nice big park in front of my house, but I can smoke all the weed I want. So they are not treated the same.......

 

[OldSolduer]

I dont know of anyone who smokes a J and get violent towards anything but a bag of Dorritos.

Now walk down town Halifax on a party night and see what alcohol does to people. Hell the Barenaked Ladies made a song about it, Hello City.

Agree with that with the provisio that long term alcohol misuse is well understood. Is long term cannabis misuse understood?

Now we cannot bring Keith Richards into this conversation - he's an exception to about a million different rules.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Yes they are, but I can't consume any of those things in the nice big park in front of my house, but I can smoke all the weed I want. So they are not treated the same.......

Tell that to the Queen's University Alma Matter Society, or any other university that turns city streets into a bingefest at will.

Much like folks smoking pot in public spaces, also wholly illegal under the Cannabis Act as well as other provincial ordinances (Smoke Free Ontario Act comes to mind), it comes down to enforcement. As I'm sure the many LEOs here would attest to, someone blazing up in public poses little to not threat to themselves, fhe public, or the attending officers that approach them.

"Hey friend, you can't smoke here, can you move along?"

"Shiiit, sorry man. I'll go on my way. Later..."

Versus:

"You pissed on the National War Memorial, punched a small child, and exposed yourself to a group of nuns..."

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Tell that to the Queen's University Alma Matter Society, or any other university that turns city streets into a bingefest at will.

Whataboutism at its finest....

Much like folks smoking pot in public spaces, also wholly illegal under the Cannabis Act as well as other provincial ordinances (Smoke Free Ontario Act comes to mind), it comes down to enforcement.

Cannabis laws

Learn about Ontario’s rules to keep people safe when buying and consuming recreational cannabis.

www.ontario.ca

Where you can smoke and vape cannabis​

• Many outdoor public places (for example, sidewalks and parks)

EDIT: I'm actually glad its legal now anyways,......saves me looking at tons of memes/stories every day of how it cures cancer, epilepsy, mental health issues, etc. Shouldn't be long until we are all at 100% health.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Whataboutism at its finest....

Same in your case. Two way street when we're talking g hypotheticals

Cannabis laws

Learn about Ontario’s rules to keep people safe when buying and consuming recreational cannabis.

www.ontario.ca

Where you can smoke and vape cannabis​

• Many outdoor public places (for example, sidewalks and parks)

Further down the link you posted:

Additional restrictions on smoking and vaping may exist in municipal bylaws, lease agreements and the policies of employers and property owners.

Also:

Where you cannot smoke or vape cannabis
Indoors

You cannot smoke or vape cannabis in:

-indoor common areas in condos, apartment buildings and university/college residences

-enclosed public places and enclosed work places

-non-designated guest rooms in hotels, motels and inns

-Schools and places where children gather


Outdoors

You cannot smoke or vape cannabis:

-at school, on school grounds, and all public areas within 20 metres of these grounds

-on children’s playgrounds and public areas within 20 metres of playgrounds

-in child care centres or where an early years program is provided

-in places where home child care is provided — even if children aren’t present

Hospitals, hospices, care homes and other facilities

You cannot smoke or vape cannabis:

-within 9 metres from the entrance or exit of hospitals (public and private), psychiatric facilities, long-term care homes, independent health facilities
on outdoor grounds of hospitals (public and private) and psychiatric facilities

-in non-controlled areas in long-term care homes, certain retirement homes, provincially-funded supportive housing, designated psychiatric or veterans’ facilities, and residential hospices

Publicly owned spaces

You cannot smoke or vape cannabis in:

- publicly-owned sport fields (not including golf courses), nearby spectator areas and public areas within 20 metres of these areas.

Vehicles and boats

You cannot consume cannabis (smoking, vaping and eating) in a vehicle or boat that is being driven or will be driven.


Other outdoor areas

You cannot smoke or vape cannabis:

-in restaurants and on bar patios and public areas within 9 metres of a patio

-on outdoor grounds of specified Ontario government office buildings

-in reserved seating areas at outdoor sports and entertainment locations

-on grounds of community recreational facilities and public areas within 20 metres of those grounds

-in sheltered outdoor areas with a roof and more than two walls which the public or employees frequent, or are invited to (for example, a bus shelter)

If you're going to post a link and cherry pick references out of it, read the entire context of the reference.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Same in your case. Two way street when we're talking g hypotheticals


Further down the link you posted:




Also:



If you're going to post a link and cherry pick references out of it, read the entire context of the reference.

Except none of those apply to the situation I originally mentioned......big park in front of my house. I can walk over and smoke a joint, I cannnot walk over with a Rum and Coke. So to bring it back to someone else's point about a page of tap dancing ago, they are NOT treated the same.

As far as I know without looking it up, all those 'cannabis' rules you posted are the same as tobacco. [vehicles and boats notwithstanding]

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Except none of those apply to the situation I originally mentioned......big park in front of my house. I can walk over and smoke a joint, I cannnot walk over with a Rum and Coke. So to bring it back to someone else's point about a page of tap dancing ago, they are NOT treated the same.

And I have no idea the specific geography of your house in relation to said park. Does it have a playground within 20 metres of it? A school? Is it publicly owned? Privately owned? A sports field? Does your city have bylaws further governing the use of cannabis in public?

My point with this entire exercise is that we have laws and statutes in place to control both alcohol and cannabis consumption in public. Both are some of the most stringent o the world, compared to say Europe, while others are more liberal than anywhere else.

Do I want folks blazing up beside where I live? Hell no. No more than I want that asshole smoking a cigarette in his truck in the drive-through. But then again, that goes to what is legally allowed versus what is a societal tolerance.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yes they are, but I can't consume any of those things in the nice big park in front of my house, but I can smoke all the weed I want. So they are not treated the same.......

No brown paper bag?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

No brown paper bag?

Fortunately they all hang out in a different park now that the LCBO opened a new store right beside the river.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Agree with that with the provisio that long term alcohol misuse is well understood. Is long term cannabis misuse understood?

Now we cannot bring Keith Richards into this conversation - he's an exception to about a million different rules.

People have been daily users of sweet Mary J for decades, and many of them in the CAF. It's been A dirty lil secret for ever. I know guys who used to toke up on the dance floor in the funnels on CPFs off watch. I also knew guys who were perpetually drunk from when we let go lines until we closed up for specials to come home. Guess who caused all the issues ?

I think anything you ingest or smoke over long periods is going to effect your health. Still I'd rather live beside the guy who likes to toke on his deck than the alchy whose screaming and yelling and starting a fuss all the time. And I have a soft spot for Ska and Reggae... So that goes in the tokers favor lol

 

[YZT580]

Are bars not advertised. Liquor stores? Beer stores?

You are absolutely correct. And perhaps we shouldn't be so cavalier about their potential harm but we had pot more or less contained with the ability to regulate it as the drug that it is and we willingly (or at least our p.m. did for the votes and to be cool and perhaps to mess up our country just a little more) let it loose without constraint.

 

[Uwish]

you cannot have 'safe sites' without the follow up. For some reason BC et al 'think' they are acting like some European nations that did this (and are having success) but the one thing they forget here...there is a required addiction treatment program. It's either jail or treatment. We seem to have forgotten the latter part.

 

[RangerRay]

you cannot have 'safe sites' without the follow up. For some reason BC et al 'think' they are acting like some European nations that did this (and are having success) but the one thing they forget here...there is a required addiction treatment program. It's either jail or treatment. We seem to have forgotten the latter part.

Yes, I seem to recall that other jurisdictions with safe injection sites, but there is also available treatment and full enforcement of the laws and regulations still in place. In typical Canadian fashion, we cherry pick the one progressive and cheap policy without implementing the accompanying policies that make that one progressive policy effective.