Russian vets of Afghan war pity Canada
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As someone with no military experience and whose knowledge of the military is purely academic, I should probably stay out of this discussion. However, as I read these comments from the Russian vets I can't help think of the old saying "misery loves company". I wonder if the remarks by these proud former Red Army soldiers isn't more to do with the fact that the Russian Army, the world's second largest after China's during the Cold War, failed militarily in Afghanistan, and the possibility of Canada's Army, which isn't even a tenth the size of Russia's succeeding in the same theatre, against the same enemy causes them some chagrin.
It is too early to tell what the eventual outcome in Afghanistan will be. It is an effort that like the British involvement in Northern Ireland will take years to bear fruit. But even if Afghanistan turns out to be a political failure, militarily the Canadian Army will be able to hold its head up high. So far the performance of Canadian soldiers on Afghanistan's battlefields has it standing head and shoulders above many of the world's larger armies (not to denigrate any of the NATO allies).
Just as the Canadians taught the Germans and Italians a thing or two on the battlefields of World War II Europe, so they are now teaching the Russians a thing or two in the mountains of A'stan (don't be fooled, you can bet the Russians were observing the battle of Panjawi province with great interest and perhaps some jealousy). I am willing to bet that future generations of Officer Cadets at West Point, Sandhurst and St. Cyr when studying how not to fight a guerilla war will look at the Russians in A'stan, when studying how to fight such a war, they will look at the Canadians in A'stan. To quote that Princess Pat. soldier in the July 13th Youtube video in which they raided a Taliban compound "...they're definitely gonna wonder who the Canadians are from here on out."
It is too early to tell what the eventual outcome in Afghanistan will be. It is an effort that like the British involvement in Northern Ireland will take years to bear fruit. But even if Afghanistan turns out to be a political failure, militarily the Canadian Army will be able to hold its head up high. So far the performance of Canadian soldiers on Afghanistan's battlefields has it standing head and shoulders above many of the world's larger armies (not to denigrate any of the NATO allies).
Just as the Canadians taught the Germans and Italians a thing or two on the battlefields of World War II Europe, so they are now teaching the Russians a thing or two in the mountains of A'stan (don't be fooled, you can bet the Russians were observing the battle of Panjawi province with great interest and perhaps some jealousy). I am willing to bet that future generations of Officer Cadets at West Point, Sandhurst and St. Cyr when studying how not to fight a guerilla war will look at the Russians in A'stan, when studying how to fight such a war, they will look at the Canadians in A'stan. To quote that Princess Pat. soldier in the July 13th Youtube video in which they raided a Taliban compound "...they're definitely gonna wonder who the Canadians are from here on out."
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CF isnt the only force in Afganistan right now, so the 1/10th comment doesnt hold.
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I never said or alluded that they were the only force in A'stan; however, the fact is that one of the world's smallest armies has contributed one of the largest numbers of ground troops to A'stan and spearheaded the assault on the Taliban in southern A'stan. when one compares the results gained thus far in south A'stan by a NATO force led by one of the alliances smallest armies the Canadians are pretty bloody exceptional if you ask me. So I would say that the comments by former Red Army soldiers comparing their war to what the Canadians are doing now don't hold.
Also as others on this forum have commented already, Canada isn't there because it wants to conquer anyone or anything. It is there out of a genuine desire to lift downtrodden people from under the shadow of oppression and terror. For that reason as well the comments of those Russian vets don't hold even a litre of water.
Also as others on this forum have commented already, Canada isn't there because it wants to conquer anyone or anything. It is there out of a genuine desire to lift downtrodden people from under the shadow of oppression and terror. For that reason as well the comments of those Russian vets don't hold even a litre of water.
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I just noticed one thing. In those quotes they do not specify who they are talking about. If Winnipeg Free press is just as biased towards the current rulling party (NDP, how did you guys elected those twats?) as say.... Montreal Gazzete (sp?), or pretty much any other left leaning paper, i wouldnt be suprised if they were quoted completely out of context OR, since there are no links to the original in that website, completely made up in the first place.
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cameron said:
To be fair however, The Current Talibs are not getting support and training from a world super power. (You know, Stinger Missiles and CIA and US generals teaching tactics)
I don't doubt we are doing a better job. But they also had Proxy war thing going on, with US/western support for their enemies. Whereas right now, the Taliban are getting no support from superpowers..perhaps only from Iran and some Partisans in North Pakistan.
I do believe (and many things I've read on the Soviet Afghan conflict agree) that the soviet faliure was mostly do to US support of the Afghans, and not to the Afghans being, in and of them selves, better then the Soviets.
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they are receiving considerably more asistance from Pakistan than you seem to think. Deliberate funding and arming from the ISI and select military leaders, support, recruits, and funding from various madrassas and student organizations, and not least - implicit support from Mushie himself in that Mushie won't/can't move into the Northern Provinces and crush the tribes.rz350 said:
TangoTwoBravo
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The Soviets faced a much more wide-spread insurgency, with attacks pretty much across the map. The situation today is somewhat more localized to the south/east. The Muj during the 80s had tremendous funding and several governments openly working for them, whereas the Taliban have somewhat more limited (but still considerable) resources.
Not to denigrate the Soviets, but our forces are also different in terms of motivation, training and equipment. I never questioned what I was doing there. The ANA I worked with also appeared well motivated with high morale and a willingness to take the fight to the enemy. They understand the stakes.
I have also read that the Muj faced a crisis in the mid-war years (1985/86) as the Soviets adapted their equipment and tactics. The Hind Gunships and SU-25s started to make an impact. The widespread employment of the Stinger was perhaps the turning point.
We can learn from the Soviets and the Muj, but we also need to be careful with our analysis. Nevertheless, it was interesting to read Afghan Guerilla Warfare and see Panjwayi vignettes. I would also suggest reading The Bear Trap.
Not to denigrate the Soviets, but our forces are also different in terms of motivation, training and equipment. I never questioned what I was doing there. The ANA I worked with also appeared well motivated with high morale and a willingness to take the fight to the enemy. They understand the stakes.
I have also read that the Muj faced a crisis in the mid-war years (1985/86) as the Soviets adapted their equipment and tactics. The Hind Gunships and SU-25s started to make an impact. The widespread employment of the Stinger was perhaps the turning point.
We can learn from the Soviets and the Muj, but we also need to be careful with our analysis. Nevertheless, it was interesting to read Afghan Guerilla Warfare and see Panjwayi vignettes. I would also suggest reading The Bear Trap.
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Today's technology is also different from what it was more than 20 years ago.
It's a totally different conflict, the fact that left leaning rag quoted someone who was there 20 years ago (as i said, i wouldn't be surprised if the interview is made up) to support NDP's agenda says they are struggling to find support else where.
Also, if the interview is not made up, those old grunts probably do not want anyone else dying in that place, regardless of nationality or ideology.
It's a totally different conflict, the fact that left leaning rag quoted someone who was there 20 years ago (as i said, i wouldn't be surprised if the interview is made up) to support NDP's agenda says they are struggling to find support else where.
Also, if the interview is not made up, those old grunts probably do not want anyone else dying in that place, regardless of nationality or ideology.
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