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Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms

JasonH

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Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
    John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

    "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."
    Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloguing the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
    Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.
    The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.
    The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
    Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.
    The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
    Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.
    Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.
    "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."
    The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.
    A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.
    The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.
    "The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.
    The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.
    According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.
    It is not known if the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.
    A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.
    The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not convince Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
    A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.
    However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
    The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.
    Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.
    The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
    Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
    The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
    Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
    "Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
    Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
    The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
    Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
    The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.
    Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
    The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.
    Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.

*Link went down and now is back up*
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm----

Wow, shits gonna hit the fan if this is true.   Can anyone else back this up?   :eek:
 
If any hard evidence of this surfaces, me thinks "Boris" has some explaining to do.
This good get interesting.
 
kinda makes one wonder why Russia voted againest the US at the UN for invading Iraq......
And all the brand new French ammo and missles.... another "no" vote....

And all the Cashed checks made out to the Russians and French draw on Saddam's bank accounts.....

Makes one wonder WHO really are our Allies.....

Guess thier "NO" votes should read.....  "NO, Don't stop our arms sales and oil-for-food kick back payments"

The US & the new Iraqi goverment should tell the French and Russians to take thier Iraqi (Saddam Era) debt and shove it.
 
Sooo....here has been what seems to be laid out as far as Iraq goes as of today...

-1998 - Clinton wants to go to war with Iraq but won't because of unpopular opinion of so....but bombs factories there in hopes to thwart Suddams plans. Without the almighty UN's approval either.
- 2003 Saddam kept kicking inspectors out and letting them back in and messing around with them all while Saddam had deals going on with Russia/ France/ and Germany at the highest level to receive money/food/weapons in trade for oil. Possibly even Koffe Anan himself being involved.
-Saddam promises even more if Russia France and Germany promise to Veto any resolutions by Bush to go to war with Iraq.
March 2003 - Russia helped Saddam smuggle out the weapons through the Syria border.
- We go to war with Iraq and Find many ammunitions and bombs and materials....over 350,000 tons of it. But not WMDs per say
- We find out that 380 tons of weapons that were in one specific place
- John Kerry blames Bush for not securing the 380 tons of weapons
- World finds out that the 380 tons of weapons were possibly hauled off by Russia right BEFORE the war and any of our troops were there.

UN = Owned
Kerry = Owned
Liberal democrats = Owned

How convienent, right around the time of the elections...

Kinda like the stuff World wars are made of   :eek: :-\ :'(
 
Okay guys this is getten wierd..

Cliffs:

Article appears on Washington Post website--


Post's website swamped, intermittantly unresponsive.
Was the artical faked??? Site Hacked??
Picked up by Drudge Report & appears on Fox News Scroll
Artical Dissappears from website; yet remained on National news front page.

And now it doesn't even show up on the National News page but it's still on drudge.  ???
 
Russia's official reply
MOSCOW, October 28 (Itar-Tass) - The Russian Defence Ministry has bluntly denied some mass media reports alleging that Russian specialists could be involved in the disappearance of hundreds of tonnes of explosives from storage facilities of Al Kakaa military base in Iraq.

The chief of the ministry's press service, Vyacheslav Sedov, called these publications â Å“invented and absurdâ ?.

He told Itar-Tass that â Å“all Russian military â “ advisers and specialists had left Iraq long before the beginning of the American-British operation in this Middle East stateâ ?.

â Å“I could understand it when it was attempted to make a mountain out of a mole-hole, but there has not been even a mole-hole this time,â ? Sedov said.

White House press secretary Scot McClellan said on Monday that about 350 tonnes of explosive disappeared from Al Kakaa base in April 2003 soon after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, but the US administration was informed about that only on October 15.

According to McClellan, Iraqi authorities reported the incident to the International Atomic Energy Agency which in turn informed the US' representative office in this organization.
http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?NewsID=1397559&PageNum=0

No information Russia moved Iraq explosive - Washington

MOSCOW. Oct 28 (Interfax) - Washington has no information to indicate that Russia helped the former Iraqi regime transport explosives out of the country, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage told journalists on Thursday.

"I never came across this type of information," he said.

"I suppose the official Pentagon representative already made a statement that he has no such information," Armitage said.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10715486
 
No evidence. Where exactly did they get this info I wonder. Just stirring the pot.
 
Curiouser and curiouser:

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=5b7e494c-9de1-4deb-87a2-4273329099ad

Armed group claims to have explosives missing from Iraqi depot

Canadian Press

Thursday, October 28, 2004

BAGHDAD (AP) - An armed group claimed in a video obtained Thursday to have obtained a huge amount of explosives missing from a munitions depot facility in Iraq and warned that it will use them if foreign troops threaten Iraqi cities.

A group calling itself Al-Islam's Army Brigades, Al-Karar Brigade, claimed "heroic mujahedeen have managed by the grace of God and by co-ordinating with a . . . number of the officers and the soldiers of the American intelligence to obtain a very huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa facility, which was under the protection of the American forces."

The group's claim couldn't be independently verified. The speaker was surrounded by masked, armed men standing in front of a black banner with the group's name on it in the tape obtained by Associated Press Television News.

"We promise God and the Iraqi people that we will use it against the occupation forces and those who co-operate with them in the event of these forces threatening any Iraqi city," the man added.

Nearly 350 tonnes of conventional explosives have disappeared from the al-Qaqaa facility south of Baghdad, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The UN agency's chief Mohamed ElBaradei reported the disappearance to the UN Security Council on Monday, two weeks after Iraqi officials told the nuclear agency that 342 tonnes of explosives had vanished as a result of "theft and looting . . . due to lack of security."

The disappearance of the explosives has become a huge campaign issue in the U.S. presidential election.
© The Canadian Press 2004
 
YA they bought all their wepons from the soviey union around 60-70 yrars ago
 
pappy said:
kinda makes one wonder why Russia voted againest the US at the UN for invading Iraq......
And all the brand new French ammo and missles.... another "no" vote....

And all the Cashed checks made out to the Russians and French draw on Saddam's bank accounts.....

Makes one wonder WHO really are our Allies.....

Guess thier "NO" votes should read.....   "NO, Don't stop our arms sales and oil-for-food kick back payments"

The US & the new Iraqi goverment should tell the French and Russians to take thier Iraqi (Saddam Era) debt and shove it.


I think there is alot of countries that dont like the fact that the US supplies weapons to people they are enemies with. Why is it that no country can really have its own opinion and relations with another country with out the US freaking out? Did you think that maby the members of the UN voted "no" because they actualy thought that it was unjust? No, the US is always right, if they dont like that a country like Iraq wont bend to their will, they will invade and forcefully overthrow the current leader.
 
Seems to me like everyone is jumping on this missing exlposives thing so they can capitalize from it by accusing people/countries who they don't like and making assumptions when right now there is no evidence to support anything, except that as of right now, the materials are missing.
 
I'm sure they'll show up sooner or later.  :skull:

Just better not be in downtown Calgary...
 
Goober said:
Seems to me like everyone is jumping on this missing exlposives thing so they can capitalize from it by accusing people/countries who they don't like and making assumptions when right now there is no evidence to support anything, except that as of right now, the materials are missing.


good post dude
 
I think this same information was published by DEBKAfile, and outstanding news source from Israel
which I have been reading for years. Point is, President Bush is right, the munitions were not there
when the Allied forces were pressing on to Baghdad - but I am sure I do not have to tell your
members and readers - the media in this country in particular, (Toronto Star, Globe and Mail and
the *****CBC) do not want to hear this kind of stuff, and we all know where most of our Federal
politicians stand. MacLeod
 
well i cant go into any details but when i read this post to my buddie he stated that they seen some of the trucks in  question around that time moving freely throughout the borders of Israel, Syria and Jorden. They were of russian make, the French at that time were manning all the check points monitoring the traffic and taking plate numbers. When one person asked why the plate numbers of the Russian vehicles were not taken down they were told to mind their own business. they all thought something was up as they had to take numbers of all other vehicles at the time regardless of who they belonged to. This had them all wondering what was going on, as they all had their suspicions as to it. They all new the Americans were going to war over the next few days. and also new of the tensions between the UN country's at the time. Things like this make you wonder. Any ways think about this and what it truly means that a country is caught red handed and now will have to be dealt with. The UN has to make some tough decisions in the next few months I think.
 
The problem with this is that any evidence is all classified and will most likely be for quite a while. Its easy at this point for the Dems to sling crap at Bush over this, because I'm quite sure his hands are effectively tied behind his back; OPSEC trumps election politics.

BUT if you get your nose out of the left wing media and read around the net, you will find references to:

- Satellite imagery showing trucks leaving the Al-Aaqaa facility shortly before the war and heading towards the Syrian border.
- At the start of the war, one or more convoys heading for the border and intercepted by US forces were manned by Russians.

Or course, any hard proof of either of these facts would be classified, and will therefore not make its way into our hands. They also are not inline with the left-wing media's agenda, so we won't be hearing about them anytime soon through popular media outlets.

Just my $0.02 CDN
 
Al Qa Qaa was part of my old stomping grounds when I was with TF Scorpion covering the southern outskirts of Baghdad during the summer of 2003.

We drove past that place everyday, but were under specific instructions not to enter, as it was deemed a very toxic hazmat site.  The fumes that came from there were pretty noxious, even from a km away.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa.htm

I'll see if I can get access to a scanner and post my topo map of the facility and surrounding area.
 
jmacleod said:
I think this same information was published by DEBKAfile, and outstanding news source from Israel
which I have been reading for years.

Oy! DEBKA makes sh*t up or uses pretty dubious sources. They certainly don't provide PROOF of their many allegations. It sometimes makes for fun reading, but you'd better have good BS filter specs on before you log onto it.

A particular favorite of mine was the allegation that Saddam and family were living in the Syrian port town of Lattakia, in the "luxurious" Cham Palace Cote d'Azure. Any Op DANACA guys ever stayed there? "Luxurious" is hardly the adjective I'd use, though I could see how someone might mistake the hole they eventually pulled him out of for a room at that fine establishment.

Acorn
 
Will said:
Russia's official reply
MOSCOW, October 28 (Itar-Tass) - The Russian Defence Ministry has bluntly denied some mass media reports alleging that Russian specialists could be involved in the disappearance of hundreds of tonnes of explosives from storage facilities of Al Kakaa military base in Iraq.

The chief of the ministry's press service, Vyacheslav Sedov, called these publications â Å“invented and absurdâ ?.

He told Itar-Tass that â Å“all Russian military â “ advisers and specialists had left Iraq long before the beginning of the American-British operation in this Middle East stateâ ?.

â Å“I could understand it when it was attempted to make a mountain out of a mole-hole, but there has not been even a mole-hole this time,â ? Sedov said.

White House press secretary Scot McClellan said on Monday that about 350 tonnes of explosive disappeared from Al Kakaa base in April 2003 soon after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, but the US administration was informed about that only on October 15.

According to McClellan, Iraqi authorities reported the incident to the International Atomic Energy Agency which in turn informed the US' representative office in this organization.
http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?NewsID=1397559&PageNum=0

No information Russia moved Iraq explosive - Washington

MOSCOW. Oct 28 (Interfax) - Washington has no information to indicate that Russia helped the former Iraqi regime transport explosives out of the country, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage told journalists on Thursday.

"I never came across this type of information," he said.

"I suppose the official Pentagon representative already made a statement that he has no such information," Armitage said.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10715486

did this guy actually say "mole-hole"?
i'm suprised and dissapointed in my army.ca bretheren,  that a statement of such hilarity was not ridiculed.
 
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