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Reserve-Stalwart Guardian 05

short final said:
Althought I didn't participate this year, I have the past few as a Griffon pilot -

1)  One of you said the Griffon ride was useless....5 mins or so.  The aim of the training is to famil you guys with operating near helos, loading, unloading etc, not for the ride itself.  You don't know how many times we ask guys "you've been in one of these before??"  "Oh yeah....sure...." he says, then doesn't know how to do up the seat belts, or stands up and starts running around before the helos have left the LZ's.....
It just seemd to me that the airmobile ops was big part of the training, yet it wasn't that big part at all in terms of the context of the overall picture. Yeah, getting guys familiarized with choppers is nice I suppose, but to me, the choppers were there as something shiny and cool and that's all.
 
RoyalHighlandFusilier said:
Just how many Jerries did the CQ carry at one time anyways? Maybe 20 for a company of 150+? I'm not pointing fingers at you directly, but it just seems that there weren't enough jerries around.
(And yes, my platoon brought back jerries whenever they were empty, which was mainly after meals and before going on mission and rehearsals. That's often enough, right?)

Just to interject here.....It is all TIMING.....did you bring the empties down before or after they left to get water?
 
I see your point Royal - but its my opinion that both Regs and Reserves don't spend enough time working around choppers.  I still see guys sitting in the wrong seats (taking the FE's spot), tying the seatbelt in a knot because they couldn't figure it out, guys running towards the tail (BIG BIG NO NO), catching equipment on the pitot tubes (two stick things on the nose), plus much much more.

I know airmobles aren't really in the doctrine anymore, given today's battlegrounds, but there's something about jet engines and spinning rotors that drop a guy's IQ 10 fold and never seem to know what they're doing.
 
Over 30 Gerry's.  CQ staff was a little busy to worry soley about Gerry's.  Like say, getting rations, tossing your garbage.  You need to sepnd an ex the the CQ to understand what it's like.
 
George Wallace said:
Just to interject here.....It is all TIMING.....did you bring the empties down before or after they left to get water?
I have no idea, as I don't know when CQ made water runs.

I was never a CQ for a coy in field, but I was admin NCO for a course this summer and to my belief, it should be at least 2 jerries per section available.
 
RoyalHighlandFusilier said:
I have no idea, as I don't know when CQ made water runs.

Well...I would think that that may have been a good thing to know......and not to have a pile of partially filled Gerry Cans in your location, when you could have taken all of them and filled one, so that you could turn the empties in to be filled.  The problem may have been you; not the CQ.
 
short final said:
Althought I didn't participate this year, I have the past few as a Griffon pilot -

1)   One of you said the Griffon ride was useless....5 mins or so.   The aim of the training is to famil you guys with operating near helos, loading, unloading etc, not for the ride itself.   You don't know how many times we ask guys "you've been in one of these before??"   "Oh yeah....sure...." he says, then doesn't know how to do up the seat belts, or stands up and starts running around before the helos have left the LZ's.....

2)   In my 10 yrs as a reg force guy, comms is always an issue, always will be.


I myself believe the introduction was useful, seeing as I've been in a civilian chopper about 3 times, this was quite different. Different flying, different load+unload of people (DAH) and altogether it was as if I'd never flown on one before. Having an introduction to tac-helo ops was great in my opinion and served it's purpose quite well in that fashion; what it was---> An intro!

People saying it wasn't useful is like people saying the gas hut isn't useful either. Gave you confidence in your equipment and drills did it not? If not, you weren't paying attention or learning anything.

Joe
 
George Wallace said:
Well...I would think that that may have been a good thing to know......and not to have a pile of partially filled Gerry Cans in your location, when you could have taken all of them and filled one, so that you could turn the empties in to be filled.   The problem may have been you; not the CQ.

I don't really see that as being a brand new privates responsibility.  Someone a little higher than him dropped the ball on this one.  CQ should have advised the leadership of when they'd be scheduling water runs, or idealy coordinated with them to work out how to take care of the problem.  The leadership (section commanders) should have ensured individuals were delegated to consolidate the jerries and get empty ones turned in at the appropriate times.
 
George Wallace said:
Well...I would think that that may have been a good thing to know......and not to have a pile of partially filled Gerry Cans in your location, when you could have taken all of them and filled one, so that you could turn the empties in to be filled.  The problem may have been you; not the CQ.
Actually, at most, my platoon had maximum 2 jerries for a platoon of 33 or so at one time. I was delegated as the 'water NCO' by default or something and I ensured that everytime a jerry was returned, it was empty or pretty damn close to it. Jerries were returned after meals with garbage, or before rehearsals or whenever it was empty. I returned two, but a lot of times had to settle with 1, or even zero because CQ didn't have any available.
I fail to see how I am at fault here, as what I did made sense to me.
Curious. How often was water delivered and at what time anyways?

And this is just getting stupid so I'll decline to comment further. PM me if you really need to say something to me about this.
 
Well, this was my first ex besides the ones I've done on course and I found it alright... I was, however, disappointed that we had to use purely blanks for the attacks instead of simunition/milesgear, and I would have liked a bit of obua too, considering that I think obua training is very important.
 
For my part, I acted as the OPs O for F COY 32 LIB for this one and here are a couple of bits for people to chew on:

1. 1RCR did an excellent job in preparing their positions and providing a solid, thinking and professional enemy force that ramped up the level of training for everyone. Excellent job for all who took part. The NCOs and Lt Pappin were particularly helpful during AARs.

2. The objectives were well chosen and tough nuts to crack. Again this only added to the level of training. This part the exercise planners got right, no question.

3. The battle procedure time cycle was too compressed for COY level operations to allow for proper battle procedure. At 48 hours per task, recce did not have sufficient time to deploy, execute their mission and report back. As a result battle procedure for the COY had to start with minimal info, and then in some cases be reworked entirely when information began to filter back to the OC. Given the exercise planners are keen on having three objectives per week there must be a change in the warning order and recce process to permit proper recce which will assist in planning rather than cause rewrites at the last minute. Although there was sufficient time for rest (which the troops loved), weapons maintenance, rehearsals, and coord with FEOs and other COYs, the essential portions of battle procedure revolving around recce were having to be cut short or aborted entirely. This made the plan less sound, and as a result meant that order for the troops and rehearsals which they conducted were less meaningful than they should have been. If the point of these exercises is to test skills and teach from lessons learned, then we should make sure to have all good lessons being taught each time, not half-assed ones.

4. Tactical considerations must be made paramount. Example: doctrine (rightly so) is that you attack a bridge from both ends at the same time, however for our attack we were prevented from putting a platoon across the river (I asked for helos, trucks, and then offered, with an MOI WO to swim our German Pathfinders across). Also tactics would strongly suggest that you don't fly heleicopters over your objective and then land troops less than 800m from it. We were given no choice in our landing  zone and had to deal with the fact that the enemy could see us lcrossing a road on the way to it, such that they could call arty on us (thankfully we got the hell out of there before it started falling.) Both of these examples were forced upon our company by higher, not because we are particularly stunned. Exercise restrictions need to be maintained to some degree to ensure safety...fine. However, there must be a flexibility built in, in order to ensure that tactical considerations are not pushed aside in the name of expediency and simplicity. Again, let's try to teach good lessons to troops rather than ones which save time and effort.

5. The lack of a proper smoker for the troops was inexcusable. I heard a variety of reasons, no QL6 cook available to supervise proper cooking of meat, blah blah blah. The troops busted their asses all week, and two cans of half-cold beer and a steak isn't that much to ask for. Given the planning that was said to have gone into everything else, I was shocked to hear that pizza and pop was the best that could be done for the boys, particularly given the fact that SG04 ended with a proper smoker. It can be done, somebody dropped the ball. That has to be fixed.

I'm sure that there is more but those are some of the ones that stand out.

Dileas.
 
As to the question of why we couldn't get a platoon across the river...

All bridges were in "Enemy" hands so regular lift across was not an option. No helicopters...when I asked the ALO for a night lift they actually snickered at my request...that was classy. No birds, no trucks, so the final option was to ford or swim across (as all of out teleportation devices were NS) I requested (with the assistance of one of our Observer Controllers, a WO who is MOI) to have the two of us swim a rope across, but higher, quoting safety concerns, shut that down. That in a rather condensed version is why we could not get a platoon across. Other COYs had "Insurgents' give them lift across, or some got day-time flights. Our window for birds was apparently restricted as was the option for truck lift. The real kick in the junk about this was that battle procedure has started with the promise that we had the lift only to then have it turned off late in the game.

As stated, I tried a few things but I was playing the game by myself when all was said and done.
 
All the bridges had recce on them - the Armoured Recce squadrons had been in place for at least 12 hours prior to the LIBs arriving on their birds, and our troops at least didn't just do static OPs, but instead did a lot of agressive patrolling. Some of our patrols made it all the way into the enemy admin areas.

But the LIBs made, in general, poor use of this resource, operating as if recce wasn't even there. Were you not told?

DG
 
Funny how we figure that all these different units can come together in only a few hours, and exercise as a cohesive unit immediately.  "Were you not told" good one, there is a good chance that they had no idea you guys were even thee, let alone watching the objective.  Got to hold a few more of these over the year, to get the bugs out before the "big one" in the summer, I think we are pretty far away from just being able to plug a reserve unit in and have everything go super smooth, all this water complaints area a great example.  I don't get why you guys only brought 2 Jerries per platoon, but if that s the way you do it, then good for you.  There is always 6 in the back of my gun tractor for my detachment, and if you are out of water, find anyone that is on a vehicle, chances are that they will have a ton of it and will share with you.
 
From a Det commander in the Arty point of view SG05 was ok. Not good, just ok. I have been on better, and MUCH WORSE

Cons- For starters the safety trace in the impact area was way too small, we were stopped by safety every other mission. Not being able to use the normal gun positions that we use, we had to stick and entire battery in postage stamp size positions. Damn Istar, civvies in the impact area, we had overflight issues where we couldn't shoot our fused ammo, this caused us to have to turn in over 60+ rounds per gun. Out clearance was a jug f#$k pain in the ass. I miss the 4 RCA Smoker at the end, in sted they bought us crappy pizza, I miss the 2 beers we had last year.

Pros- The fact we couldn't use the normal gun positions was also a plus, it forced Reece to actually think out our positions, not just use status quo. Due to the crazy positions, we had to fire "high angle", we never get to do that, I shot at Eleveation 1212. THATS NUTS!!!!! We had excellent support from our Regiment, the whole 4 RCA thing works real well. Even with the safety issues the ex flowed well. Enemy force, 3 RCR attacked us on a road move, we had to respond like infantry, good for practice.

Just a few of the problems I remember. I post more when I remember
 
Hmm, well my company didnt seem to have some of the problems the other companies had.  We always had food and had well over 30 jerries  which we kept filled whenever we were in the hide.

I know that our company DID attack the bridge from both ends, or try at least, but one plt got wiped out pretty quick so another platoon had to push across the whole bridge.

The trench system was a good go but not to many people were excited about it being filmed.

The terrorist camp was by far the most enjoyable for me, espeically the 4 and a half hour march there.

One of the big things which I think plagued all the companies was the lack of senior leadership.  Last year almost every section was commanded by a Sgt, this year, it was Cpls just off there leadership course (who did an excellent job) and 2 i/cs were mostly privates who had been in a year.  Given those circumstances I thought it went as well as could have been hoped for.

The half tactical thing sorta bugged me but what can ya do.

I know a lot of the new troops that hadn't been on a FTX before had a real learning experience, especially when it came to getting kit squared away in the hide and proper dress at night.  A lot of new troops would be wearing and walking with their fleece or sweaters at night but that changed after on march.

Not having a smoker was a huge dissapointment, but at least we had a mock mess dinner with IMP's at the end.

Our AAR's were WAY to long with points being hashed over and over again instead of moving onto something more relevant.

All in all, it was a good go, no real complaints.
 
Hmm couple of comments from the Dinosaur seats here.

Nice to see comments from new troopies who thoroughly enjoyed themselves (not jaded/experienced enough to notice what was wrong only what was good). Especially the points re that stuff that seemed rushed and not understood on their rather crammed courses this summer is now starting to make sense.

Re the sniping here on what worked, didn't work especially between section 2ics and CQMS staff. Hello that's why we call it training to identify and hopefully develop work arounds to solve the problem. Ok in this case there were probably errors and miscommunications on both sides of the house, now figure out how to fix it so it don't happen  next year then you can work on a whole new set of screw ups.

Hey poop happens boys and girls. Sections are full of semi trained troops instead of trained experienced ones, and sometimes led by inexperienced/unqualified section commanders 2ics. Food, water and other goodies sometimes don't arrive on time/in the correct amounts. Situations/orders/tasks resources change.

I'll be honest sometimes these things just happen, last Milcon /CAC I attended in Pet what was left of Hurricane Andrew paid a visit midway through the final Brigade FTX and that kind of put a damper( literally) on all plans. Sometimes they are a result of incompetence and negligence at some level in the chain of command (and in that case someone needs to be doing the hatless dance).

One has two choices, sit and bitch about it or ruck up and soldier on. Look at it as an advantage, extra realistic training if you will. If you can overcome said shortcomings and still get the job done, then great, that's a great feeling of accomplishment and important IN YOUR DEVLOPMENT AS A SOLDIER. Guess what everything may not be perfect when it's for real either. Remember the old adage, train hard, fight easier, train easy fight hard and die.

Short Final re Helios and the 10% IQ drop in your average grunt. I agree it's the "shiny toy syndrome" what can I say. Your right though the main purpose is familiarization. Guys don't do this a lot especially Reservists and skills get rusty ( as in other things hence the whole idea of an annual refresher  week). I once saw a CWO act like an excited 5 year old in a Chinook, for all I know it was his first time in a military helio. To me it was just another way to get to work. Not as much time to nap as in the back of a truck/track/yellow school bus, but still preferable to leather cadillacs.
 
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