Reserve Pension- Merged

[dapaterson]

"Security concern"?  I would hope that does not imply that DND has permitted personal information out into the world.  But I'm not optimistic.

 

[begbie]

This would enable him to switch to the PS pension plan.  I would question rather it is required to release from the reserves to do it though.

I agree.  A member who wants to serve shouldn't have to release due his civy job's pension.

Ummm... why release ?
Couldn't he just waive his right to the CF pension - if that's what he wants to do

Yeah, we could do that.  But universality of service should mean universality of benefits in the sense that all reservists should have the same benefits. 

In the end, I'm hoping that this is just a misinterpretation of the rules.  There will be a lot of people who will be impacted by this.

 

[geo]

.... Anyone who provided this kind of pension service in industry woulda gotten his/hes a$$ FIRED a long time ago.

WHY do we put up with this incompetence ?

In private industry.... if a contractor didn't have a viable plan up AND running within 6-10 months - they would be dumped.

WHY do we put up with this incompetence ?

WHY ? WHY ? WHY ?

AARGH!!!

 

[CountDC]

.... Anyone who provided this kind of pension service in industry woulda gotten his/hes a$$ FIRED a long time ago.

WHY do we put up with this incompetence ?

In private industry.... if a contractor didn't have a viable plan up AND running within 6-10 months - they would be dumped.

WHY do we put up with this incompetence ?

WHY ? WHY ? WHY ?

AARGH!!!

GOVERNMENT!!   

 

[George Wallace]

GOVERNMENT!!   

Government Lawyers and Treasury Board Lawyers.   >  Got to figure out how to take it all back as Taxes.

 

[Rifleman62]

This is the question I asked Pension services on 12 Jul 07 as I had several years of service with a crown corporation:

"Options re Public Service buy back with concurrent Cl A reserve service (at the Wpg briefings by Maj Day, this is doable)”

The answer received from Pension Services 8 Aug 07:

“As per a previous DPSP "ruling", a member cannot be credited twice for the same day. We can process one type of service for a particular period, not both because you would pay twice but only get credited once. In this case, in your  best interests, we should process the PSSA service first, then eliminate that period from the equation when processing the reserve service past earnings election. The small problem that remains is that the regulations state that a past earnings election is for "all" of the past earnings [see RFPP Reg 11(3)] , so  we are not 100% sure if we are able, according to the specific wording of the legislation, to process the PSSA service first & then the reserve service, but we are  pretty confident that is how it will work out. We  have asked DPSP about this specific situation of overlapping service  but have not yet received a response”.

On 4 Jan 08 I was informed that “Unfortunately, this means that your employment with x crown corporation from - to -  is not considered to be employment with the Public Service of Canada and cannot be elected as pensionable with the CF Pension Plan.”

For this period I was buying back Public Service @ 4% simple interest (I have Pension Services calculations spreadsheet showing this), vice Reserve time.

it is funny (sick humor) that lots and lots of very senior DND/CF appointments are very well aware that the RFPP is a huge disaster including delays, updated pensionable earnings. the compound interest  etc. Yet not one of these senior leaders has said "STOP", fix the RFPP immediately and make it equitable with the other government pensions. So much for leadership.

Sent: Friday, 24, November, 2006 15:44 PM
To: Natynczyk LGen WJ@VCDS@Ottawa-Hull
Subject: Grievance, Canadian Forces Pension Modernization Project

The VCDS is responsible for CMP. No response. The letter has been posted here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28418.225.html

 

[begbie]

This is the question I asked Pension services on 12 Jul 07 as I had several years of service with a crown corporation:

"Options re Public Service buy back with concurrent Cl A reserve service (at the Wpg briefings by Maj Day, this is doable)”

The answer received from Pension Services 8 Aug 07:

“As per a previous DPSP "ruling", a member cannot be credited twice for the same day. We can process one type of service for a particular period, not both because you would pay twice but only get credited once. In this case, in your  best interests, we should process the PSSA service first, then eliminate that period from the equation when processing the reserve service past earnings election. The small problem that remains is that the regulations state that a past earnings election is for "all" of the past earnings [see RFPP Reg 11(3)] , so  we are not 100% sure if we are able, according to the specific wording of the legislation, to process the PSSA service first & then the reserve service, but we are  pretty confident that is how it will work out. We  have asked DPSP about this specific situation of overlapping service  but have not yet received a response”.

On 4 Jan 08 I was informed that “Unfortunately, this means that your employment with x crown corporation from - to -  is not considered to be employment with the Public Service of Canada and cannot be elected as pensionable with the CF Pension Plan.”

For this period I was buying back Public Service @ 4% simple interest (I have Pension Services calculations spreadsheet showing this), vice Reserve time.

Thanks for this.  I personally find this weird.  I still can't escape my logic that if a member can not be credited twice for the same day, then all of us Class A guys collecting a PS paycheque can't be collecting Cl A pay since we can't be credited for the same day.  This is where it all falls apart for me. 

If 'double dipping' is a major concern then any RCMP member, civilian RCMP member, or public servant shouldn't be allowed to serve in the reserves.  Clearly we're allowed to especially given that RCMP members were recently allowed to enroll in the reserves. 

If this turns out to be true, then the CF will end up with two classes of reservists: one fully compensated and one that is not.  I deplore this kind of inconsistency.  In a system that preaches egalitarianism, this shouldn't happen.

 

[Rifleman62]

Over 63,000 hits on this subject. The Reserve Pension forum has been directly pointed out to several people very high on the food chain at HDHQ as an indication of the problems with subject. You would think that it would be enough of a hint when they were given the link, the number of hits, and advised to read the forum.

Buyback Calculator: "The calculator you are attempting to access is temporarily unavailable. It is anticipated the calculator will be available mid to end January 2009".

Pension Calculator: "The calculator you are attempting to access is temporarily unavailable. It is anticipated the calculator will be available mid to end January 2009".

It is 5 Feb 09 and both calculators are still down with no update to the message.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dcf-dsp/rfp-rpf/tc-oc/index-eng.asp


As Rifleman62 stated: "......that lots and lots of very senior DND/CF appointments are very well aware that the RFPP is a huge disaster including delays, updated pensionable earnings. the compound interest  etc. Yet not one of these senior leaders has said "STOP", fix the RFPP immediately and make it equitable with the other government pensions. So much for leadership".

As geo stated: ".....Anyone who provided this kind of pension service in industry woulda gotten his/hes a$$ FIRED a long time ago".

 

[dapaterson]

Called in and spoke to a live person.  "It's down and we don't know why."  "Can you find someone who knows?" "I'll transfer you."  New guy "Yeah, it's down.  They're upgrading it.  We hope it will be back in mid February, but we don't know."

(And, apparently, expecting them to process my file less than ten years after Royal Assent was received to legislation enabling Reserve Pensions is somehow unreasonable)

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Yeah go figure, got my letter but got no way of calculating anything  :crybaby:

Think sending explosive packages will help this along?

;D

 

[dapaterson]

Now I am sure that this all pure co-incidence.

After my last call at about 10:40 or so, where the helpful gentleman on the phone provided me with the name and email address of his supervisor, lo and behold some 75 minutes later I received an email stating what I owe for my part I.1 election and my part I top-up.

Mind you, I still don't know what (if any) RRSP contribution room will be required, how many days of CF service I am buying back, or how long it will take them to process the withdrawal, nor have I been able to compare their numbers to mine... but things are moving (a little).  Only 22 1/2 months after I elected.  Or 9 years 5 months after bill C-78 received Royal Assent.

 

[begbie]

Now I am sure that this all pure co-incidence.

After my last call at about 10:40 or so, where the helpful gentleman on the phone provided me with the name and email address of his supervisor, lo and behold some 75 minutes later I received an email stating what I owe for my part I.1 election and my part I top-up.

Mind you, I still don't know what (if any) RRSP contribution room will be required, how many days of CF service I am buying back, or how long it will take them to process the withdrawal, nor have I been able to compare their numbers to mine... but things are moving (a little).  Only 22 1/2 months after I elected.  Or 9 years 5 months after bill C-78 received Royal Assent.

Sweet.  Maybe I only have a few more months to go then  ;D

Edit: Was it close to the calculator's estimate?

 

[dapaterson]

I have my files at home, so I need to go and look.  Though it does seem close.

 

[begbie]

That's good... even a +/- 5% difference can add up to a huge chunk of cash.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm just glad that I cashed out investments worth about 75% of the buyback about 20 months ago and started holding them in cash (still inside my RRSP investment account) - meaning that the hit to my assets was not as pronounced as it otherwise would have been.


Still, there's still a slog ahead for me... much as I'd like to think it will be smooth sailing, I have my doubts...

 

[Rifleman62]

David, did you also get an estimate of what the pension would be, or are you buying back blind?

It is a coincidence I am sure. It could not be the squeaky (pain in the butt) wheel gets the grease!!

 

[dapaterson]

Actually, given that I elected in March 07, I suspect it may be legitimate, and that the folks on the phone didn't know that my file would have to finish Buyback before being moved to the Transfers pile.  But it's indicative of the disorganization there, and it's clear that no one wargamed the process prior to implementation.

I've been promised a Statement of Service that will give me all the details of what I'm buying back and what it will get me.  I've also been told that they will take my money and then confirm the Past Service Pension Adjustment (PSPA) which, to me, sounds odd - if there's a problem, what will they do?

Still a few bumps in the road ahead, I'm afraid...

 

[old timer]

Hi guys.  We need real help.  I wrote a letter to 2 MP's a while back and finally got a response from Peter MacKay (most likely written by a remf in the dept) that said it was a great plan, better than most yadda yadda yadda so don't expect any relief on the punitive interest.  Listen the only things politicians listen to is public opinion.  We need media help here.  Is this something Scott Taylor could push for us.  I would like to see this on W5 or similar.  What does everybody think.  Rifleman, I was out of town for a while so I logged on as a new account,  Ed here.

 

[54/102 CEF]

I sent the same question to Senator Colin Kenny's office

His assistant wrote back saying Treasury Board had the hammer on this - given the performance we have seen its easy for DND to sluff it off and take the "we have other priorities route"

I think the approach to take is

4% for all just like those inward bound reg forces from reserves BEFORE Mar 07 and back to at least when it became law in early 90s?? Date?

That way there's some give and take - as it is - its all take on the part of Treasury Board. DND's transparency on this is lamentable.

We give service - spend time same as regs and forego a civvy career during the full time phase and are subject to most if not all of the coercive powers of QR and O. Whats different?

The stated qualification as approved by the CDS, or only overseas is as big a whopper as "regs are on standbye all the time." Some are - many are not. The government tells DND send troops, DND has limited kit so they rotate - and get very generously rewarded for overseas duty which no one disagrees with.

The sick lame and lazy still exist and we don't see a reduction to the 85%.

The % difference of  is the premium the government lets CDS pay his troops same as any other civil service dept (note how no one is really in charge of this issue?) for dedicating themselves time full time to the Government of Canada.

So the road leads to the top - and if the current Minister sluffs it off - there's only one place to go.

 

[Rifleman62]

Ed, scan the letter and attach it, or type it out here so I can forstall the Minister's reply to my letter e.g. ' no one is arguing a defined benefit plan pension is an excellent plan, but as you as an MP paid 4% simple interest, it is equitable that the reserves have the same opportunity".

Agree someone staffed it for the Minister. So now we know the official position of the department and all the senior leadership of DND. That is: tough shidt on the second class Reserves.