Reserve BIQ Course - Weekend edition - experience by others??

[Highland Laddie]

Good afternoon all,

I have been selected to be the Course O for a Reserve BIQ course being run in our armoury. The catch is its a 'part time' weekend course, i.e. every second weekend, as opposed to full time. Needless to say I have numerous concerns with the 'week end' BIQ concept, but I have been assigned the task, and will endeavour to 'adapt and overcome'.

I'm trying to find out if anyone else has had experience with this format, and if they can offer any pointers / Lessons Learned. I have numerous concerns, but here is some of my major ones:

1. How can one instill an infantry "esprit de corps' on those who attend a course on weekends? This is easier to accomplish with a full time course, but obviously harder to achieve in an "on again, off again" course.

2. Getting people back into the course 'mind set' on a Friday night. Does anyone have an experience with this, and which classes / practical exercises help? Weapons lectures? TOETs? The field ex weekends are easier that 'garrison' training dates, but I am somewhat concerned on getting troops back into "army / infantry mode" on a Friday night two weeks past their previous training date.

3. Attrition of newly learned field skills between weekends - I.E. - troop learns A to C, does a few, and doesn't do it again for two weeks, as opposed to the next day on a full time course.

4. Realism of training, particularly the FTX portions, with a weekend course format. Example: Defensive FTX. On a weekend FTX with new troops learning defensive skills and time constraints, it would be dig trench, build wire entanglements, then promptly tear them down, as opposed to a three day or more FTX.

5. Any unique logistical / planning concerns or experiences with this format?

6. Enthusiasm / dedication of staff. The staff that have been assigned to the course are all very professional, and will do their best, but how do you keep up the enthusiasm and dedication of staff when every one (including myself) questions the validity and value of a 'weekend' BIQ course format. All (including myself) will 'adapt and overcome' and make it the best training we can, but how does one combat the inevitable feelings that will arise when one is assigned a training task of questionable value?

Thanks for any input or insight that anyone can offer. I am also curious if any other Reserve units / Brigades are going to a 'weekend warrior' BIQ format. I am almost embarrassed to be associated with this training concept, but will make my best efforts for the troops. Cheers.

 

[JBP]

Well, those are valid concerns and serious ones also. You have to take into consideration though, that at least 75% of the people on the weekend BIQ (I would hope!) are there by thier own choice. They want to be there and go through it and learn it.

With that in mind, it shouldn't be too hard to keep a young healthy individual attuned to your instructions. Then again I'm not an instructor. Of course you'll have the occassional rowdy group or individual on a Friday night, but hey, not like you haven't dealt with that sort of situation before right? Probably anyway. The people who aren't there because they want to be or if they don't find it interesting etc, will probably end up quitting and/or dropping out. Simple as that!

Of course the training simply cannot be as effective as full time is because it's over such a short term (eg, a weekend). But over time, as they get better and better at it, they'll retain more and more knowledge.

I would say just do your best, maybe try to concentrate on functional/doing-it-here-and-now-in-the-mud training and not so much theoretical?

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck!

Joe

PS> Glad to see there is someone striving to do thier best in a difficult position!

 

[Private Jimbo]

I have one thing to say... HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA  o ya, and Im sure you will learn alot. :

 

[pegged]

I did my BMQ on a weekend course in the Mewata Armories in Calgary, and my SQ in Wainwright for a month. I know I'm just a Pte Recruit but I'll give you my input from a recruit's standpoint.

Honestly, my BMQ was harder than my SQ. I found there was wayyyy more stress on the BMQ (Is that how it's supposed to be? I thought they increased the level of stress each course..) than on my SQ.
People usually found it a bit difficult to go back and forth between civy and military life, but they dealt with it. We usually got there on the friday and would stand around for 20 minutes waiting for everyone to arrive. I didn't like that at all, I knew the cock would start eventually, and waiting around didn't help. IMO, people should be given taskings as soon as they arrive, if possible. The earlier in the night you start the stress, the better it will be for the recruits. Those are my 2 cents on recruit mind-set for fridays.

As for "esprit de corps", make sure the instructors use Infantry type motivation during the training. One way is the "maximum drive and aggression" bit. Of course this has to be a given, but what better way to instill that by movtivating by continuously letting them know they are Infantry, why, and where they will need to be as good as they can. Lots of PT too =P, if time permits (yay Reservists).

I'm pretty sure the instructors will have a good time with it, the instructors on our BMQ didn't have any problems at all.

That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Infanteer]

Private Jimbo,

The question was a serious one posted in a serious manner.

If you have nothing to contribute except witless sarcasm, don't bother clogging up the thread or you'll be on the next bus outta here.

Infanteer

 

[Jarnhamar]

Way to look mature jimbo. An officer asks a very good question and instead of you contributing to a better run course the only thing you can come up with is laughing.

Highland Laddie thats a good question. I'm trying to remember points i've heard others speaking about regarding the near same exact question. I'll have to give it some thought.

is there any way you could get authorization for extra training nights for the recruits? Perhaps a wendsday night here and there where the troops would come in and work on team building skills, PT and maybe extra drill or theory?

 

[PTE Gruending]

My 2cents;
I will be a candidate on the BIQ course running this fall, staffed by my unit. In my mind, it seems as though the QL3 Infantry/BIQ course was not intended originally to be offered in the weekend format (historically I have never heard of a weekend Infantry QL3). However due to the large number of course cancellations this year (hit hard - BIQ)   combined with the new TRG system (from QL2/QL3 incarnation running 2-6 years ago, training of time ~7 weeks to the BMQ/SQ/BIQ system now, which take 13 weeks). It is taking longer to get recruits trained (upwards of 2 years), and more difficult to avoid attrition.

My own situation, food for thought, I am going into my 3rd year with my unit being only SQ qualified due to course cancellations and the like. I think you will find that the SQ course that troops have taken should bridge the gap in training. At it's roots, the SQ course is essentially an Infantry QL3 course. Both with the skills learned, and the mentality instilled into the troops. So as far as worrying about troops not having the 'Infantry' mindset going through the BMQ/SQ/BIQ system, I would not sweat it. Our unit relies heavily on it's SQ trained troops as personel shortages are a large problem. On exercises we fill all the roles that 'trained' troops would, myself having been a COY HMG gunner, det commander, patrol 2ic, etc.

With that in mind, our unit is running a short BIQ course to qualify some of it's SQ troops  fully in the new "DP1". It is consisting of trg Tuesday and Thursday nights, as well as 6 weekends of additional training (both at the local base/camp, and at the armouries itself). I think this is great, because as a full time student, taking 10-12 weekends on base in a period of 3 months is simply not an option for me. Additionally, the training is taxing our unit's resources, both fiscally and from a standpoint of instructors. Our unit is slightly crippled having to run this course in itself, I can imagine *all* collective training in Fall might have been cancelled had a more intensive BIQ course been put forward. Myself and other experienced peer SQ troops have done most of the PO's associated with BIQ. The only thing which we have not done is 60mm mortars, 203 live fire (we did dry training in unit), and perhaps water crossing. The rest (PWTIII, dismounted PL offensive/defensive ops, etc etc have all either been done with the unit or on exercise).

However on the point that some troops are getting into the system, whom have never done a formal (non-weekend) military course, could be an issue in the future. What happens when they take a 'real' course, go on a long exercise, or are deployed oversea's? Having not taken a weekend course, I cannot comment on the quality of training receieved by one exclusively taking weekend courses.

So from the 'students' point of view, I hope I have answered some of your questions, Sir.

 

[Fusaki]

The biggest problem I see with running a BIQ every second weekend is the lack of intensity involved in the training. If your candidates know that they'll have time to rest once the weekend is over, you're going to have to c0ck them that much more during the weekends. In my opinion, BIQ is not just about covering the course material. Anyone on a Basic Training can do that. Its about teaching the troops to absorb material while under stress that makes an Infantry course, and that should be a focus.

In the regs, BIQ and SQ have a combined attrition rate of about 33%. Thats info I gathered from my own course and the courses before and after me in Meaford. In my opinion, a reserve SQ/BIQ should be no different. You should have at least a few dropouts on your course, or you arn't pushing the troops hard enough. Its better to give the guys who pass something to be proud of, then let the weak get to the unit. If the guys who graduate realize that you've taken quality over quantity, they'll be more motivated to take their jobs seriously and be more productive members of the CF. Morale is contagious, and a few proud soldiers will do better then a large group with a few shitpumps.

For the record, Sir, I'm not qualified to teach on a BIQ. But I've gone through the reg force version recently and I can tell you that any of the pride and motivation seen in my buddies today comes from being cold, wet, and tired when we were on course.

Edit: Aww man, I am SUCH a blade!!!

 

[PTE Gruending]

Intentional attrition? In the 'Mo? You've gotta be kidding me! It does not exist, and that is a bad thing.

I agree with Ghostwalk on a few of his points, however in my experience one would have to have a ND on the ranges which resulted in a bus load of Nuns and Generals dying before the candidate was released. It is policy and not a fault of the instructors. In my experience, on course, we have had candidates whom everyone hated (including the instructors), and were known blades, theives, general waste's of skin, who have no right to wear the maple leaf left shoulder, let alone flip burgers at Mickey-D's.

However does it not make sense to weed these people out at the basic training phase rather than well into the progression of military training? Both from cost point of view, and from the viewpoint of the candidates?

 

[McInnes]

Seeing total shitpumps who can barely tie their own shoes pass a coarse ruins any sort of pride or sense of accomplishment on graduation day. People who have constantly bladed the coarse, while you have worked your ass off leaves you with a feeling of what the hell was the point.
Moving along. A weekend coarse can be more beneficial than a full time coarse in my experiance. I benefited way more from my weekend coarse, learnt how to deal with stress, ect. Whereas my fulltime SQ left me with weapons drills and little else.

 

[pbi]

I have been selected to be the Course O for a Reserve BIQ course being run in our armoury. The catch is its a 'part time' weekend course, i.e. every second weekend, as opposed to full time. Needless to say I have numerous concerns with the 'week end' BIQ concept, but I have been assigned the task, and will endeavour to 'adapt and overcome'.

Hello again HL. The fact that you are writing this is good news to me (I think): it means that we in 38 CBG have won a long-fought battle with LFWA/LFDTS to be able to run MOC qualification training in the Brigade. I'm not sure how much was explained to you, but we have been after this since I came on board as COS in 2002. The reasoning behind this was that, for a number of reasons, the centralized trg system run out of LFWATC just did not have the throughput to meet our needs. Infantry was only one MOC in this boat: Arty is worse and CSS is tragic. We had to advance the argument that "one standard" does not mean "one school" as some centralizers would have you think (And I know because in LFCA I was The Centralizer for a while...)

I'm trying to find out if anyone else has had experience with this format, and if they can offer any pointers / Lessons Learned. I have numerous concerns, but here is some of my major ones:

I was course WO for a  weekend "TQ3 Inf" I was in the RRegtC in Toronto. I also ran several GMT Recruit and GMT Basic serials. That was a good few years ago (we were still using the Brown Bess) but some of the principles remain the same.

. How can one instill an infantry "esprit de corps' on those who attend a course on weekends? This is easier to accomplish with a full time course, but obviously harder to achieve in an "on again, off again" course

It is harder, but not impossible. Demand the highest standard you can (we had a bit more leeway then) and do everything you can to build team spirit. The old RCR adage "Never pass a fault" can work well here. Just applying that honestly and consistently will put demands on them that they are not used to. That is what they want: to face challenges and demands. The problem we face, I think, is that today we must be much more creative and careful in how we establish challenges. Beasting is out: so don't do anything stupid, negligent or illegal. Try to teach them to take pride in their skills, in the Infantry, and call attention to success. You and your staff will have to work harder than staff on a WATC course would.

Getting people back into the course 'mind set' on a Friday night. Does anyone have an experience with this, and which classes / practical exercises help? Weapons lectures? TOETs? The field ex weekends are easier that 'garrison' training dates, but I am somewhat concerned on getting troops back into "army / infantry mode" on a Friday night two weeks past their previous training date.

I would start out with PT (if it's in the CTP-check with the Bde Stds Cell) and then the best lecture of the weekend. Try to make maximum use of the SAT: it has huge potential for various types of trg and IMHO we barely scratch the surface of what it can do.

3. Attrition of newly learned field skills between weekends - I.E. - troop learns A to C, does a few, and doesn't do it again for two weeks, as opposed to the next day on a full time course

.

This is a difficult one. There are two methods I can think of: try building in review time Fri night, or bring them in on a pde night for review. However, skill fade and skill delta are accepted and unavoidable facts for Res soldiers. This is why the Army requires 90 days to prep Res soldiers to deploy (although our recent D&S Pl deployment tore the **** out of that one...) Nobody envisions Res soldiers going straight from the Armoury floor to any op other than a domestic humanitarian emergency.

.

Realism of training, particularly the FTX portions, with a weekend course format. Example: Defensive FTX. On a weekend FTX with new troops learning defensive skills and time constraints, it would be dig trench, build wire entanglements, then promptly tear them down, as opposed to a three day or more FTX

This is a recognized trade off for the ability to obtain an 80% solution to inadequate Inf throughput. As Inf soldiers ourselves we don't like it but I for one am prepared to accept it, given our circumstances. Just demand the highest standards you can on the skills you are able to teach.

Any unique logistical / planning concerns or experiences with this format?

Time is your biggest enemy, even more than it normally is in the Army Reserve. Make sure you get as much admin and trg sp prep done during the week, so you are not wasting valuable time on the weekend.

Enthusiasm / dedication of staff. The staff that have been assigned to the course are all very professional, and will do their best, but how do you keep up the enthusiasm and dedication of staff when every one (including myself) questions the validity and value of a 'weekend' BIQ course format. All (including myself) will 'adapt and overcome' and make it the best training we can, but how does one combat the inevitable feelings that will arise when one is assigned a training task of questionable value?

This is hard, but go back to what I said above. Just remember that no matter what you think personally, the Inf units in our Bde need these soldiers, if we are to sustain the thing we really need, which is not a pack of recruits but a solid backbone of NCOs. We must start to grow them somehow: we are choking without them now. Without the NCO backbone we cannot increase WATC throughput or grow our units significantly. Do the best job you can possibly do, and DON'T fall into the trap of communicating your misgivings to the recruits.

Thanks for any input or insight that anyone can offer. I am also curious if any other Reserve units / Brigades are going to a 'weekend warrior' BIQ format. I am almost embarrassed to be associated with this training concept, but will make my best efforts for the troops. Cheers.

Aha! Caught you! Disloyal rat! OK-just kidding.... Some pretty dedicated Infantrymen, Reg and Res alike, in 38 CBG have pondered over this and come to the conclusion that if we don't try to take up the slack as a Bde, we will just keep slipping further and further behind. Remember the last Bde Comd's intent? "Build Junior Leaders". You are in on the ground floor of it. It is not the 100% solution, or the Cadillac, but go for it and give it your best shot. I am very keen to see how this progresses: could I ask you the favour of keeping me up to date? Cheers.

 

[Freight_Train]

As a new recruit, IMO, this is a good move.  I have basically been told that it will take at least 2 years for me to be fully trained (through summer courses) as an infanteer.  If BMQ/SQ/BIQ could all be run through my unit, I could be trained in a year.  I imagine that because of the training lag, motivated troops are leaving their reserve unit even before they are trained.  It would be great if training could be offered in a more timely fashion.
Greg

 

[Highland Laddie]

PBI,

Sir, thanks for the feedback and wider perspective on this issue. Nice to know there is a 'method to the madness' from 38 CBG   ;D. I do feel much better about these issues after reading your points. At the end of the day, having more troops on the floor and addressing the severe lack of Junior NCO is what counts. I have also been somewhat thrown for a loop as well by being parachuted into the course a few days before it begins, but luckily the WO is all over the admin / planning aspects! "Adapt and overcome" & "Ducimus" are the watchwords (as always!).

Thanks for the perspective on the commander's intent with this endeavour as well. I will remain focused on the "commander's intent" and "selection and maintenance of the aim" for the mission. Sidebar note: the Gettysburg PD trip did pay dividends!

The points on PT, review classes, etc are well taken. Unfortunately, there is no PT in the course schedule, and the troops go home at night on non-range or non-FTX weekends. I will find other means of adapting and overcoming though....

I do have some other concerns, as we seem to not be in conformance with several points in the QS. But then again, what course has met all of the PO/EOs due to resource issues, time, budget, ammo, etc.

Point taken on the SAT. IMHO, it is a great piece of kit for training that we barely utilize to its fullest extent. One of the prime issues is that we don't have enough people fully trained to operate the SAT, so it is somewhat of a vicious circle (ie people don't use the SAT, so they don't know what it can do, so they don't plan to use it, etc).

I'll keep you advised on how the course progresses (it starts Friday night). Let me know if you want it via private message, or via this thread (perhaps as a means of sharing experience for others).

As for the Disloyal Rat comment...my civvie job involves me questioning everything, and my mil training over the past year has increased this in my military duties. Gotta understand the "intent" and "aim", plus, as your signature block says  "His Majesty made you an officer so you would know when to disobey orders" - in this case "question orders" would be more like it  ;D!

PS - Sir, if you haven't figured out who I am yet, I was the only Highlander in the "Little Round Top" presentation. Cheers, and thanks for the comments / inspiration. I'll certainly return to my task with less questioning of the course, and more determination to make it the best it can be for the troops. Keep your head down over there!

EDIT - PBI, FYI IPSWQ & Driver Wheeled courses are also starting here in the next two weeks, as well as several PLQ Mods (in stages). Hope this reflects your desire for more courses at local units versus WATC.

 

[Highland Laddie]

As a new recruit, IMO, this is a good move.   I have basically been told that it will take at least 2 years for me to be fully trained (through summer courses) as an infanteer.   If BMQ/SQ/BIQ could all be run through my unit, I could be trained in a year.   I imagine that because of the training lag, motivated troops are leaving their reserve unit even before they are trained.   It would be great if training could be offered in a more timely fashion.
Greg

Freight Train, thanks for the insight from another perspective. I'll have too keep this in mind on the course, and emphasize this viewpoint with my staff - its all about the troops and their proper training in the end.

 

[Highland Laddie]

My own situation, food for thought, I am going into my 3rd year with my unit being only SQ qualified due to course cancellations and the like. I think you will find that the SQ course that troops have taken should bridge the gap in training.......

With that in mind, our unit is running a short BIQ course to qualify some of it's SQ troops   fully in the new "DP1". It is consisting of trg Tuesday and Thursday nights, as well as 6 weekends of additional training (both at the local base/camp, and at the armouries itself). I think this is great, because as a full time student, taking 10-12 weekends on base in a period of 3 months is simply not an option for me. Additionally, the training is taxing our unit's resources, both fiscally and from a standpoint of instructors. Our unit is slightly crippled having to run this course in itself, I can imagine *all* collective training in Fall might have been cancelled had a more intensive BIQ course been put forward......

Thanks for the different perspective. The course (and two others) are also crippling the unit's ability to conduct training. The ironic part is that we are short NCOs to teach, but without the courses (BIQ, IPSWQ, and PLQ Mods), we will not have more NCOs in the future. Talk about a bit of a vicious circle.

In terms of cancelling other training, that is an issue with the two Inf units in our armouries as well. Since early this summer when the courses were originally proposed, many Officers and NCOs in the units have been stating to anyone from higher that the units cannot do BOTH collective training and individual training (ie courses) at the same time. There are simply too few NCOs and Officers to do this successfully. I understand the concept is to alternate training years between "collective training" and "individual training"; however, this distinction is becoming increasingly lost. While I understand 'lack of trained X (ie MOC, NCO, O) troops is driving the need for courses every year in the armouries (as opposed to summer / WATC courses), at what level will the lack of field experience from field ex weekends start to come back to haunt the units, and the troops? Nothing can replace the "lessons learned" from field exs in terms of leadership, tactical problem solving etc (ie being geographically challenged, executing a plan of attack and realizing why you don't want to repeat it, etc).

 

[Highland Laddie]

Intentional attrition? In the 'Mo? You've gotta be kidding me! It does not exist, and that is a bad thing.

Your right that its a bad thing, but it did used to exist. My QL3 in Val back in the early 1990's had a failure / Vol RTU rate of around 33%, which is similar to the Regs then. My Phase days (back when Reservists went on the same course as the Regs) were even worse. Started Phase II with around 140 - 150, and ended Phase III the next summer with around 45 - 50.

I agree with Ghostwalk on a few of his points, however in my experience one would have to have a ND on the ranges which resulted in a bus load of Nuns and Generals dying before the candidate was released....

Can you say summary trial?? If someone has a ND, it should be straight to 'charge parade'. I get your overall point though.


However does it not make sense to weed these people out at the basic training phase rather than well into the progression of military training? Both from cost point of view, and from the viewpoint of the candidates?

Totally agree. The 'kinder, gentler army' days were somewhat of a disaster, but now were are in a "manning" catch 22. The regiments need as many bodies as they can get in order to survive, but quality is often sacrificed in terms of quantity. I think this will ultimately come back to haunt us in operational terms in the future. I'd rather go into an operational theatre with 25 good quality soldiers than 25 and 10 to 15 more of questionable value. I think to a certain extent that units are also looking to the future, and somewhat of a fear of the return of LFRR. I can see the 'regimental amalgamation' concept coming back with a vengeance in 10 or 15 years (after all the WWII vets have past away). While I agree the concept needs to be revisited, I think all the units are determined to boost their numbers to ensure that someone else's unit is folded into theirs. But then again, maybe I'm being too much of a cynic

 

[Argyll_2347]

As a new recruit, IMO, this is a good move.   I have basically been told that it will take at least 2 years for me to be fully trained (through summer courses) as an infanteer.   If BMQ/SQ/BIQ could all be run through my unit, I could be trained in a year.   I imagine that because of the training lag, motivated troops are leaving their reserve unit even before they are trained.   It would be great if training could be offered in a more timely fashion.
Greg

Sure, if all goes well it will.  You could get screwed over and not get the course, or have the course get switched on you... without you knowing...

I just hope Highland Laddie, your NCOs put the discipline to those 'Weekend Warriors!'  Almost all of the guys/gals who I've encountered that did the weekend BMQ/SQ are far less disciplined than those who did the full BMQ and SQ over a summer (or even those who went to their BIQ after!).

 

[Pikache]

HL, sir, your troops will get to go home every night?
That, IMHO, is just like school...

Being forced to do army activity for at least 48 hrs straight put the troops in somewhat of an army mode... Instead, your troops will get to go back home and to their beds and maybe back to their civvy attitude.
How are the troops to bond each other without having to spend their free time cleaning weapons together, prepping kit for inspection and generally shooting the shit?

Nothing like 0500 reveille, PT, shower and an inspection to remind the troops that they are in the army...

Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[pbi]

HL: Thanks for your response. I agree with you that you should post your findings to the extent that you can; I think the sharing of knowledge would be useful.

A comment on the belief that we will not achieve "bonding" amongst the members of a weekend-run course. I agree fully that the ideal is to take the course to an isolated training establishment and run it 24/7 until it' s done (OK-throw in some sleep...). Unfortunately, in our case the centralized training system that delivers this type of training experience has failed to meet our needs in any of our MOCs. Neither do we really have the luxury of waiting until next summer to run it continuously. However, if we do not maintain at least some flow of DP1 qual trg, two things will happen: in hte short term the backlog of SQ-qual soldiers will inevitably deplete through attrition caused by waiting. In the longer term(and more importantly from our Bde Comd's point of view), we will further strangle the trickle of soldiers into the NCO ranks. This shortage of NCOs has been an obstacle to our Bde in a number of areas, and we have to keep fighting to defeat it. We face demographic problems in 38 CBG that the "Fat Dumb and Happy" CBGs do not. (Let's see if that gets a rise out of anybody...)

Therefore, we are willing to accept that the platoon that graduates will lack the high level of cohesion that "depot" recruits would have. However, we take into account three other factors. First, the graduates will probably disperse to different units (HL-correct me here...)so the value of  course-level cohesion is reduced. Second, if these soldiers stay with their units, there will most definitely be a bonding: when I was a Militia soldier, my drinking buddies were all guys in my unit: it was my social ife for the most part. Finally, in terms of cohesion for operations, we state (although we don't always practice...) that we will train Res soldiers for a min of 90 days before deploying them on ops. That is considerably longer than any Res BIQ and is intended to build cohesion for ops. Now, in our Bde we just launched a complete D&S platoon for Op ATHENA on about 30 days, but we were able to draw on a reservoir of Res soldiers with op experience. There have been some difficulties, but that platoon is now doing well. Again, the 30 days is probably longer than what their BIQ might be. It isn't the ideal, but then neither is our situation. Cheers.

 

[Pikache]

pbi, sir.

My comment was made in regards to sending troops home after each day on the weekend, as I understand it is going to be run.

Yes, I'd prefer to have a course run 24/7 for 'proper' army environment, but depriving the weekend course of whatever opportunities to bond together IMO is a bad thing. By sending them away after each day, the troops lose whatever time they have to get to know each other. If we can't give the troops the 24/7 'proper' army course environment, can we at least try to give them one as close as possible?

As to your reasons...

Unfortunately, in our case the centralized training system that delivers this type of training experience has failed to meet our needs in any of our MOCs. Neither do we really have the luxury of waiting until next summer to run it continuously. However, if we do not maintain at least some flow of DP1 qual trg, two things will happen: in hte short term the backlog of SQ-qual soldiers will inevitably deplete through attrition caused by waiting. In the longer term(and more importantly from our Bde Comd's point of view), we will further strangle the trickle of soldiers into the NCO ranks. This shortage of NCOs has been an obstacle to our Bde in a number of areas, and we have to keep fighting to defeat it. We face demographic problems in 38 CBG that the "Fat Dumb and Happy" CBGs do not. (Let's see if that gets a rise out of anybody...)

I don't disagree, but this point was not what I was addressing.

First, the graduates will probably disperse to different units (HL-correct me here...)so the value of   course-level cohesion is reduced.

Therefore what, sir? What if the troops come from several separate units?
What matter is the level of cohesion during the course. The troops need to know each other if they are to function more smoothly as an unit.

Second, if these soldiers stay with their units, there will most definitely be a bonding: when I was a Militia soldier, my drinking buddies were all guys in my unit: it was my social ife for the most part.

To most part I agree sir. However, some troops do have drinking buddies outside of their units, esp. within same city.
Part of reserve life is knowing people outside of your unit that you've worked with because it is inevitable that you will be working with people outside of your unit. More people you know, better you're probably off.

So I don't see why shouldn't a troop have friends outside of your unit.

Finally, in terms of cohesion for operations, we state (although we don't always practice...) that we will train Res soldiers for a min of 90 days before deploying them on ops.

Since we're not going to through these troops on any ops, this point is rather moot, don't you think, sir?

I can see where it's coming from, the go  home after the day thing to save some cash (mostly for meals, I'm guessing), but you just can't buy esprit de corps.