Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced

[dogger1936]

It says the bravery decorations were established on 1 May 1972.
I figured I would know a lot of Toronto recipients. So, I took a look:
http://www.gg.ca/honours.aspx?lan=eng

I checked: "All Levels of ( Bravery ) Award" and "All Incident Types" and only got 51 names. Which did not seem like a lot for almost 40 years, in a busy city this size. Especially considering some of the names were for the same incident. 

I was surprised. I did not know any of the bravery recipients. Not one I even heard of. I saw things I shall never forget. People at their worst, and their best.
I know many of the 20 and 30 year Exemplary Service Medal recipients. Many of the ESMs were awarded posthumously. The City took years to put in the paper-work ( for the crews ), and the guys didn't know ( or care ) much about medals.

Some of the bravery citations are heart-breaking: "On April 2, 1996, six-year-old Jennifer Koval's'kyj died trying to stop her mentally unstable father from attacking and eventually fatally wounding her grandmother in Bowmanville, Ontario. The man had already stabbed his mother several times with a kitchen knife when Jennifer arrived on the scene. She courageously stepped between her grandmother and her knife-wielding father and pleaded with him to stop. Knowing that her father was irrational at that time, she told him she loved him in an attempt to calm him down but the man tragically turned on her and inflicted multiple stab wounds which claimed the little girl's life."

The military is the same way. My gunner got an award for an action me and him did in the stan and I got nothing. I have to admit I was/am a little angry but in the end it doesnt change anything but a little resentment towards some officers who lost the paperwork and having tour done and over with it is forgotten.

 

[GINge!]

You get recognized for domestic stuff.

I do. On the first and fifteenth of each month.

 

[mariomike]

The military is the same way. My gunner got an award for an action me and him did in the stan and I got nothing. I have to admit I was/am a little angry but in the end it doesnt change anything but a little resentment towards some officers who lost the paperwork and having tour done and over with it is forgotten.

What will be rememberred, Dogger, was that for you, it was all or nothing. It was your life, not ours, that was on the line over there.   

Edit to add: 

Incidentally, I was not kidding about the posthumous part regarding waiting patiently for a domestic operations medal.
After working around the clock for 27 years on 9-1-1 Operations,  Rick Boustead finally received his ESM on an ambulance stretcher four days before he passed away in 2002. He was the first recipient of a medal created eight years ( 7 July, 1994 ) earlier by Ottawa for EMS Operations. There was not a dry eye in the house:
http://www.thestar.com/article/107695
http://www.rbfcc.com/ems.html

A lot of guys waited a lot longer than Rick. They picked him to go first because his time was running out.

It was not until 5 August, 2005 that more than a mere handful of "living" ESMs were issued in Toronto. Even that year, a significant number had to be received by the widows. Mr. Klinck's ( 20 year ) "living" ESM came with three bars on it. All awarded on the same day.

T-EMS now manufactures and issues their own medals under the City of Toronto Act of 2006. They hand them out like candy compared to the ESMs.
They issue their own bravery awards.
Toronto never, in 38 years, forwarded any nominations for Paramedic bravery medals to Ottawa. I had that explained to me this A.M. on the phone when I called to ask why I did not know anyone on the federal  list.
I was told City Hall prefers to keep such things at the Metro level of government, rather than involve Ottawa. Why? "Because they don't sign your paycheck. We do."

That is Gen. Rohmer on the left and Councillour Grimes representing City Hall on the right:
http://torontoems.ca/main-site/private/photo-galleries/EMS-Awards-2010/#13

 

[392]

The military is the same way. My gunner got an award for an action me and him did in the stan and I got nothing. I have to admit I was/am a little angry but in the end it doesnt change anything but a little resentment towards some officers who lost the paperwork and having tour done and over with it is forgotten.

While I have no knowledge of the incident you speak of, I have had the opportunity to be enlightened as to the H&A process. Sub units submit their H&A nominations higher, where they are vetted at the unit level H&A board, and then proceed to TF level where they are vetted again at the TF H&A board, then they forwarded to CEFCOM where the same process happens again, and then, depending on the level of honour, it sits at the National level where the final decision is made. So, in effect, it may not be that your CoC lost the paperwork, it may be that in that particular incident, it was decided that only one of you could be awarded (I don't necessarily agree 100% with the "quota" for each level of honour per roto) to keep within the max number of that level of honour that can be awarded. It may also have been that whoever wrote the citations or nomination did a better job with his than yours (and I really don't agree with an honour being based on how well someone can write a citation either). There could be a million other reasons as well, but what I'm getting at is that it's not always "the paperwork was lost."

Also, a very reputable source told me that CEFCOM is behind in their H&A nominations, and that many more are on the way. One only has to look at the latest CANFORGEN WRT CDS Commendations to see that some of them are from 2008, and that was just released last week.....

 

[PuckChaser]

Dogger, I see where you're coming from. I don't want to point blame, but that was whoever wrote the report up. When my supervisor was getting my statement for my detachment's award, I made very certain that he knew we were a team, and all 3 of us contributed equally.

Capt.Happy: Maybe CEFCOM wouldn't be so far behind if every CO and RSM of every subunit wasn't put up for an award. Granted, some of these individuals were exemplary and deserve to be recognized, but it cheapens the whole system when everyone gets it. That's a whole other ball of wax though.

 

[dogger1936]

Dogger, I see where you're coming from. I don't want to point blame, but that was whoever wrote the report up. When my supervisor was getting my statement for my detachment's award, I made very certain that he knew we were a team, and all 3 of us contributed equally.

Capt.Happy: Maybe CEFCOM wouldn't be so far behind if every CO and RSM of every subunit wasn't put up for an award. Granted, some of these individuals were exemplary and deserve to be recognized, but it cheapens the whole system when everyone gets it. That's a whole other ball of wax though.

From what I heard it got lost. Either way Im really glad my gunner got reconised, but alas with all awards it leaves a sour taste in somes mouths. We saves a pile of people from death (noted in my gunners award) and I guess thats award enough.


Sometimes when I get botter and twsted about it I remind myself it's a piece of cloth.....I guess thats how scientologist get sucked into the religion  SEA ORG MEDALS!!@!!!!

 

[392]

Capt.Happy: Maybe CEFCOM wouldn't be so far behind if every CO and RSM of every subunit wasn't put up for an award. Granted, some of these individuals were exemplary and deserve to be recognized, but it cheapens the whole system when everyone gets it. That's a whole other ball of wax though.

Oh I'm well aware of the amount of SMs, RSMs, OCs and COs who have gotten hardware in the last few years. While I would never argue that some of them do not deserve it, for the most part it seems that they received a gong for doing what is expected of them. I mean really, aren't SMs, RSMs, OCs and COs supposed to set exemplary standards for their soldiers to follow?

The sucky thing is that not everyone gets recognized for their efforts. There always has been and always will be guys a little bothered they didn't get recognized. I know for a fact that some of those recently recognized are a little bothered the remainder of their mates weren't recognized, even when it was a team effort that got them recognized in the first place....

 

[dogger1936]

Oh I'm well aware of the amount of SMs, RSMs, OCs and COs who have gotten hardware in the last few years. While I would never argue that some of them do not deserve it, for the most part it seems that they received a gong for doing what is expected of them. I mean really, aren't SMs, RSMs, OCs and COs supposed to set exemplary standards for their soldiers to follow?

The sucky thing is that not everyone gets recognized for their efforts. There always has been and always will be guys a little bothered they didn't get recognized. I know for a fact that some of those recently recognized are a little bothered the remainder of their mates weren't recognized, even when it was a team effort that got them recognized in the first place....

Agreed. My gunner felt horriable and kept saying "man take this thing" of course being a snr nco I said blah blah blah as expected. However here in an anonomous land I have to say what made me bitter is being hauled aside and told the reason you didnt get anything was  cause we put you in for a higher award. I also have had to order 3 sacrifice medals for my boys who were seriously injured. Needless to say the same org lost all that paperwork and as per everything was forgotten by the time we got back...And here I am ordering them for them now. Luckly our Adjt is ontop of it now and maybe 3 years after the fact these guys may get a sacrifice medal ( Im talking germany injured). I will never order mine myself. They can keep it.

TF 03-08 was a "gong" show for paperwork. Epic fail.

 

[392]

I'd say 3-08 was an epic fail on more than just the paperwork front  :

 

[brihard]

I'd say 3-08 was an epic fail on more than just the paperwork front  :

Damned right it was. I didn't get a helicopter ride.  Not one.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Damned right it was. I didn't get a helicopter ride.  Not one.

That might be a good thing though brother

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Someone on here once made a comment about this I remember well (Vern...)...you serve when you can serve, in the conditions at the time. 

Gawd, that must have been during one of my very rare lucid moments.  :blotto:

Don't worry Vern, I have faith in your lack of lucidity, he might have been referring to my saying, " No matter when and where you served, we all did the same thing,... what was asked of us at that particular time".

 

[Arctic Acorn]

...he might have been referring to my saying, " No matter when and where you served, we all did the same thing,... what was asked of us at that particular time".

Mea culpa...apologies for wrongly attributing the remark.

Regardless, it's true. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Otto, doesn't mater who said it,...as long as we get some shots at Vern. :cheers:

 

[armyvern]

Otto, doesn't mater who said it,...as long as we get some shots at Vern. :cheers:

Bring it on Big Bird. Bring it on.

 

[Danjanou]

Get between the red head and the pickle thief in the miami vice jacket and you will be entitled to a peacekeeping medal. Odds are though it will be posthumous. 8)

 

[daftandbarmy]

Oh I'm well aware of the amount of SMs, RSMs, OCs and COs who have gotten hardware in the last few years. While I would never argue that some of them do not deserve it, for the most part it seems that they received a gong for doing what is expected of them. I mean really, aren't SMs, RSMs, OCs and COs supposed to set exemplary standards for their soldiers to follow?

The sad fact is that, in a real 'shootin' war', there are some who fail miserably, and no action is taken. That's a bigger oversight IMHO than not handing out some medals as it's under performance at those levels that really gets folks hurt.

 

[dogger1936]

The sad fact is that, in a real 'shootin' war', there are some who fail miserably, and no action is taken. That's a bigger oversight IMHO than not handing out some medals as it's under performance at those levels that really gets folks hurt.

Thats why I'm gonna sell my journal when I get out. maybe the carrer orientated people who did things to get noticed will get the attention they deserve!

 

[392]

The sad fact is that, in a real 'shootin' war', there are some who fail miserably, and no action is taken. That's a bigger oversight IMHO than not handing out some medals as it's under performance at those levels that really gets folks hurt.

I spent 9 months watching this very sort of thing happen - with no repercussions - which is why I wrote that TF 3-08 was an epic fail on other fronts....

 

[Jarnhamar]

I spent 9 months watching this very sort of thing happen - with no repercussions - which is why I wrote that TF 3-08 was an epic fail on other fronts....

Blasphemy! 

I got this bad boy of a medal presented to me on TF 03-08 by my platoon since I didn't get one on the medals parade.
Probably the coolest one I have.