Re-Loading Rounds

[sgtdixon]

Does anyone know how safe it is to reload Military rounds?
I reload as a hobby and because as a competition shooter :sniper: it helps make tighter groups but i wanted to know something.
I recently aquired 400 hundred rounds of Canadian brass (IVI Casings) in a 50/0 mix of .303 Brit and .308Win/7.62x15 and does anyone know how good IVI Casings are? they seem to feel heavier and have a bit more brass in the base. As well does anyone know what size powder load and bulet type we use in the 7.62? (Im not reloading .223/5.56 because i personaly hate the round)
I might as well add that these rounds will not be fired from any service weapons, I dont even go On BMQ until november, so dont think im gon\ing to reload a belt of 7.62 for the GPMG and see how it goes.


BTW: IVI is Industries Valcartier Industrys and the manufacture all of the Armed Forces Rounds from .22 Target to .50BMG for the MacMillian Tac-50

 

[Wilson601]

I would guess 180, buts that soley a guess. I have an idea of what the grain is for a .308win deer round, so i‘m guessing they‘re the same. As you say its a hobby of yours, hobbys are good but dno‘t be too discourgaged if your range safty officer/staff doesn‘t let you rip a few belts of your homegrown. :skull:

 

[Wilson601]

As we all know it is a chargable offence to take hardware of a DND range. If you have any rounds, blanks, casings, T flashes, pins, spoons or smoke. you may pass them to your sect. cmndr as they go around. If, at a later date, you find anything u may give it to your staff or place it in an amnesty box If any legnth of time has passed and we find it upon inspection, your in $h!t. Now, the Declaration is: "I have no live rounds, empty casings, pyrotechnics or part thereof in my posision,Sir"

God i love the Army. :skull:

 

[onecat]

Yes they work. When I was tennager, I had a friend who was a gun-nut and he re-loaded everything; and seeing as he only owned militry style rifles, there were lots of militry standard cases re-loaded. 303, 7.92 and 308. So go for it.

 

[sgtdixon]

Whoa wilson, read what I said, none of these rounds are from the DND ranges nor are they going to be fired there (unless i have the explicit permission of my unit co ) All the rounds I currently have are stamped IVI ‘78, and were bought through a broker from the military, I also got my .303 rounds the same way. Dont worry i know the procedures around Range Saftey and Amnesty boxes

 

[Spr.Earl]

Er rethink what you have posted!!

You have some brass yes?

 

[portcullisguy]

In my opinion, the DND surplus brass would be just as good as any other used brass.

I tend to stay away from reloads as a rule, and I am not a reloader myself (maybe that‘s why).

I own an SKS, which is 7.62x39mm, a round that is dirt cheap and not worth reloading. You can buy thousands of rounds for what is comparatively considered pocket change.

My H&K USP is in .40S&W, and the manual recommends only FACTORY ammunition. I have fired reloads that were ball (not lead) rounds, but found often the tolerances do not allow for primers seated even a fraction of a millimetre too far into the casing, resulting in several misfires from reloaded ammo, even "factory" reloads. I only use factory ammo now.

I recently acquired a Mosin-Nagant M44 7.62x54mm, and have not yet fired it or even bought ammo for it. Again, the Russian stuff is usually cheaper to buy in bulk than to bother reloading.

As for use on a DND range, I am aware that some DND ranges rent/loan out time to civilian rifle clubs in certain conditions. Of course, usually you can bring what you want, withint reason. You won‘t be shooting the DND‘s ammo anyway. And of course, this is probably the only time you can take brass, etc., off a DND range and not get in crap for it, since the brass was yours to begin with, and not the DND‘s.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Dixon remember that a 7.62mm round from a C6 GPMG is not the same size of bullet as a 7.62mm from a hunting rifle. Ones 7.62mmx54 winchester and the other is 7.62X51 nato

I have a remmington m700 in .308 and a friend of mine was going to give me a belt of c6 - 7.62 rounds he had but on a hunch i did some checking and while you can fire the smaller c6 round in your hunting rifle if you had to it runs the chance of doing harm to your rifle (or you)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

For tech info, go to this site and read what an armourer has to say about .308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO.
7.62 vs. 308

 

[Zoomie]

A little FYI, any and all CF Ranges can NOT be opened up for civilian use. That would be ILLEGAL, ask any Range Control Patroller and he will tell you the paper-work and authorization required for an Army unit to go about using a range.
Back in the days, this happened alot (civis using ranges), but not anymore. In order for Police Departments to use a CF range, they must jump through the same hoops that CF Units do. Ie. post sentries, have a RSO qualified on that specific range, etc etc...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Both Winona and Cedar Springs in S. Ontario are used by civilian rifle clubs. Both are DND ranges. The ORA (civilian org) also uses the ranges at Borden extensivley.

 

[sgtdixon]

Hey Thanks for all the advice, Ill have to trade someone for some .30oWin Brass next time i get the chance, but the .303 brass that are once fired *(we still issue .303 to the Canadian Rangers) should be okay to fire in my Lee-Enfield No4 Mk1?
Thanks for all the help
As Well in Garrison Edmonton my rifle team and I had the chance to shoot on the Garrison small arms range, but were a Cadet rifle team, so is this why we could shoot there?

 

[Zoomie]

Sorry.. maybe I should have clarified my statements. If range control says ‘go ahead and shoot on the range" then so be it. What I was referring to was that in the past, civi‘s would stroll on to DND ranges, plop down in the prone position and blast off a couple hundred rounds, and then leave. This sort-of practice has been ceased. Of course gun clubs and the like would be granted access to the ranges, why not make some extra money for the base‘s budget? Out here in the west, the C7/C9 range at Bur**** was once open to anybody that wanted to "visit". Now the gates are locked ....

 

[Zoomie]

LOL.. auto censor bleeped out the name of a DND property. B U R D I C K !!

 

[portcullisguy]

Zoomie, I was referring to the Borden shoots by ORA rifle clubs. I thought my original message was clear that the use of the ranges was sanctioned by DND range authorities.

It is interesting to know that once upon a time the ranges were open to civilian use as you described.

No, I wouldn‘t want to shoot on any range that was that lax in controlling access, etc.

Then again, those were probably much different times!

 

[Jarnhamar]

I‘d like to shoot anywhere. With gun laws now you almost have to sneak into the woods to set up your own target practice range and do some shooting.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If you go into the woods to do any plinking make sure you have a paper target to show the Game Warden if he should stop by. Otherwise you could get tagged for hunting without a licence, out of season etc.

 

[Jarnhamar]

For sure. I was walking down an old camp road that goes off into the woods (in calabogie). My family has had a hunting cabin there since 1899. The road is basically a blazed train. A game warden stopped em and asked me if my rifle was loaded and i responded theres 4 rounds in the magazine but nothing in the chamber. He wanted to fine me for having a "loaded" gun on a mechanized trail. because the government decided that our little trail was a road we have to pay more taxes and can‘t walk around with a loaded rifle anymore. Just crazy

 

[armd_recce]

Dixon;
Yes, IVI brass is considered to be good quality. Military brass is usually thicker at the base and lower walls than civvy brass as you correctly mentioned. Downside is sometimes lower case capacity, but that is generally not an issue.

As for charge weight and bullet weight; the weight of powder (in grains) will entirely depend on what powder type you elect to use. You NEED a good reloading manual and some instruction before doing this yourself. For example putting say 27 grains of pistol powder in instead of 27 grains of a slower burning rifle powder will result in what is commonly called a kB or "Ka Boom". Please, Please consult a reloading manual and an experienced reloader before you get started. A good way to lose fingers and eyes otherwise. IIRC, the bullet weight of the service 7.62 ammo (C21 Ball) is 150 grains, FMJ BT Sptizer. The military load is around 44-45 gr of WC846, with Hodgdon BL-C(2) as equivalent. Again, that‘s just FYI, please don‘t go load that without confirming it in a manual first. I use the Speer manual myself, but whatever one suits you is good.

Re your website...
Your description of C77 Ball (what we use) vs. M855 Ball (what the Yanks use) is wrong. C77 and M855 are identical, both in powder charge and bullet type (62 gr SS109). The tumbling you refer to does indeed occur, but not in the air as is commonly misunderstood. The bullet, providing it is going faster than 2700 fps, will upset and usually fragment when it hits someone. This occurs out to about 150m with the 20" bbl C7 and M16A2. The 5.56 is by no means the "pus*y round" as you call it, it is actually far more devastating within 200m than 7.62 NATO. Barrier penetratiuon leaves a bit to be desired, but terminal effects in a person are traumatic to say the least. The temporary and premanent wound cavity from C77/M855 is considerably larger than with 7.62, where 5.56 falls flat is at ranges past 200 - 300m. Anyone want to guess where the majority of shootings in combat take place? Try the vast majority happen at ranges under 100m. At this range 5.56 is deadly, far more so than 7.62

For Ghost778, the 7.62mm NATO round is actually extremely similar to the civvy .308 Winchester round. It is accepted as safe to fire military 7.62 in civvy guns, but not always the other way around. Chamber pressures for SAMMI spec .308 can be considerably higher than for 7.62 NATO. 7.62X54 is actually the rimmed Russian round, as used in the Mosin Nagant series and their medium machine guns. The correct name is 7.62x54R (for rimmed), not 7.62x54 Winchester. There should be no worries shooting C21 ball and C19 trace out of your Rem 700, except that trace is harder on the barrel, especially if it isn‘t chrome lined.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not to get into this vs that stuff. When I was on ex in Tuk, I was the safety man in case any polar bears came to close. I was issued a FN C1 with 20 rounds of 180 grain, soft nose .308 Winchester manufactured by Dominion.