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"RCMP set aside criminal investigations to increase counter-terrorism"

noneck

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Brihard- That 20 year contract has an opt out clause of 3 years notice, if the LMD municipalities are not happy with the Force....put in place due to the manpower shell game and communications issues encountered over the last few years.

D&B- The SS (yes that is what it was called) was replaced by National Security Investigation Sections (NSIS) and later in the larger Divisions by Integrated National Security Enforcement Teams (INSET's). We do precisely the same job as our International LEO partners.

I've been with INSET for over 9 years and currently we do have a surge of members from other FSOC units. How long that will last, I don't know. What I do know is that Federal policing has to take a 40-60 million dollar cut to their budgets this FY 15/16. All current Fed Operations including NS need to make do from within their current budgets and manpower....but have been mandated to maintain service levels.

Noneck
 

Blackadder1916

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Hatchet Man said:
The US agencies may recruit and probably prefer those with prior experience, but it isn't a hard requirement though. From the FBI's Special Agent recruitment eligibility page https://www.fbijobs.gov/explore-careers/sa-needs.asp
The FBI seeks candidates from a wide variety of backgrounds with a diverse set of skills—no law enforcement experience is necessary to become a Special Agent, nor is experience with firearms. All training for the Special Agent position will be provided at the FBI Training Academy once you are selected.
. . . . .

Some could speculate that the FBI prefers to "get them young and train them right" by reading item 5 below.

http://www.fbi.gov/saltlakecity/jobs-1/employment_info
General Applicant Information

1. All applications for employment with the FBI must be submitted via the Internet at www.fbijobs.gov or www.usajobs.gov. There are no exceptions—even if you are a relative of an FBI employee, a former intern, or a former agent attempting to be reinstated.
2. You MUST be a U.S. citizen to work for the FBI.
3. To apply for the special agent position, you MUST first graduate and obtain a four-year college degree and have at least three years of professional work experience in your field/major prior. If you have a graduate degree, your work experience requirement is reduced to two years. Again, the work experience must be relevant to your area of expertise (i.e., you cannot work as a landscaper if you have a law degree etc.).
4. If you have a foreign language skill, the critical languages we seek are: Arabic (all dialects), Chinese, Korean, Russian, Hebrew, Swahili, Albanian, Indonesian, Pashto, Punjabi, and Vietnamese. Spanish is also considered a critical foreign language. However, you would have to speak at a high level of proficiency (3+ or higher) in order to be considered for further testing. Occasionally, the work experience requirement can be waived if you speak a critical language and show proficiency.
5. If you have a law enforcement background, you would generally need to have at least 7 to 10 years of diverse law enforcement experience to be deemed competitive. Other factors that would help include an advanced degree and a critical language fluency.
6. All applicants are required to pass the Personal Fitness Test (PFT) prior to being approved for a new agent’s class. After taking the initial Phase I exam, you have 60 days to turn in a PFT self-assessment to our office. You must already be in excellent physical condition prior to applying.
7. The FBI is firmly committed to a drug-free society and work place. Therefore, the unlawful use of drugs by FBI employees is not tolerated. Please see our Employment Drug Policy for information on specific requirements.
8. The FBI is currently seeking skills and degrees in: hard sciences, such as biology, chemistry, physics, etc.; all engineering fields; computer sciences; information systems; international studies; business, finance, and accounting; and military intelligence. Those with political science, criminal justice, and psychology degrees must have another critical skill in order to be more competitive (for example, military intelligence background, a graduate degree, or a special skill).
9. The Tactical Recruiting Program is designed to attract special agent candidates with extensive military or law enforcement tactical backgrounds to increase the pool of agents who will try out for our Hostage Rescue Team. See the Hostage Rescue Team webpage for details.
 

Alberta Bound

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HM, 

No I didn't confuse staffing and recruiting. Due to recruiting deficiencies in the 90s early 00s several Canadian Depts held International recruiting drives, mainly in the UK in order to get experienced officers when UK Depts were conducting their mass reductions. Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and several other Depts back east were doing it. They recruited many experienced officers into Canada directly to positions. I was 99% sure TO also did it. If your 100% they didn`t, I will leave it at that. Unless someone else on the forum has further direct knowledge.

So AB/BC are bad because they use the efficiencies of scale for kit, trg, etc instead of forming their own individual Provincial forces? Also why do it a "new way" just because? Is a new way needed? Change for the sake of change? Is all the time, effort, cost necessary just so we have an AB Prov Police instead of the RCMP?

By that logic why doesn't Ontario move to RCMP for a change and get rid of the OPP? (I am not seriously suggesting that, just making a point). The Ontario Auditor General has had some  unflattering comments about the OPP in a few of their reports including in 2012 (the last one that I have read). Would that be a reason for a change to something new?

As far as all the various people the FBI is seeking as candidates. Guess what, if you know of any Canadians with those qualifications the RCMP would also love to have them apply. A Career No Where Near Ordinary (shameless plug). One of the reasons I used to discuss career plans with CF members in Afghanistan was the huge pool of great candidates and many seeking a change. 

By the way. The FBI (DEA, ATF, etc) also have the you go anywhere we say clause as the RCMP.

As far as holding up our friends to the south as being more "advanced" (my interpretation of your comments) with their many agencies and how they do it. I will give them credit in lots of areas (some great schools, units,etc). But remember they have also gotten huge criticism for their silo attitude, infighting, lack of coordination (some of the reasons that many agencies were pulled into Homeland Security).

Lastly. Yes, we send people directly to Ontario and Quebec. There is no set percentages but are fluid based on HR needs as each troop is set to graduate. For many years the Commr barred that as he wanted all new members to get operational experience in Contract Policing. But Zacardelli changed that and when there is increased Federal resourcing needs, this increases. When the Federal budget tightens then placements directly into Federal Policing become very slim. Also some of those direct placements from Depot later get "opportunities" in Contract Policing when Federal spots get reduced. In the mid 90s this happened and also again just a couple years ago.

Just some discussion.
 

Alberta Bound

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BA 1916

I equate that with the RCMPs (and many other Police Services, but not the MPs) decision to not tell people to go out and get Criminology Certificates/Diplomas/Degrees. We want a diverse pool of people and yes we like to teach them our way. I have seen new members with Masters Degrees who have made less than stellar police officers and ones with High School have been excellent. More education is always a good thing. But just because someone has that doesn't automatically make them a good police officer.

Many Police Services including the RCMP also like hiring experienced police officers, who most often go directly into uniformed Contract Policing. But I have also seen very experienced hires or ones with special skills brought in directly to specialty sections. 
 

The_Falcon

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Alberta Bound said:
HM, 

No I didn't confuse staffing and recruiting. Due to recruiting deficiencies in the 90s early 00s several Canadian Depts held International recruiting drives, mainly in the UK in order to get experienced officers when UK Depts were conducting their mass reductions. Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and several other Depts back east were doing it. They recruited many experienced officers into Canada directly to positions. I was 99% sure TO also did it. If your 100% they didn`t, I will leave it at that. Unless someone else on the forum has further direct knowledge

That's why I specifically stuck with Toronto  ;) Toronto doesn't have an issue recruiting folks, they just (according to some) have a problem with recruiting "diversity"

So AB/BC are bad because they use the efficiencies of scale for kit, trg, etc instead of forming their own individual Provincial forces? Also why do it a "new way" just because? Is a new way needed? Change for the sake of change? Is all the time, effort, cost necessary just so we have an AB Prov Police instead of the RCMP?

I didn't say it was bad, I was merely suggesting that a new model may free up officers to be dedicated to federal level tasks, instead of having the many hats and responsibilities that are currently in place. What I inferred from that article is the RCMP are short manpower to dedicate to these federal level tasks, given recruiting issues and contractual obligations at the provincial and municipal level. One of the reasons the RCMP are involved at the provincial and municipal level is because historically there wasn't the population density to support  local police

By that logic why doesn't Ontario move to RCMP for a change and get rid of the OPP? (I am not seriously suggesting that, just making a point). The Ontario Auditor General has had some  unflattering comments about the OPP in a few of their reports including in 2012 (the last one that I have read). Would that be a reason for a change to something new?

Well before that could even be considered the Police Service Act would need to be amended to allow RCMP to be considered Police Officers for the purposes of enforcing provincial statutes. At present they are specifically excluded and cannot enforce provincial law. I think many of the OPP's issues flow from the government that has been in charge for the last decade plus.

As far as all the various people the FBI is seeking as candidates. Guess what, if you know of any Canadians with those qualifications the RCMP would also love to have them apply. A Career No Where Near Ordinary (shameless plug). One of the reasons I used to discuss career plans with CF members in Afghanistan was the huge pool of great candidates and many seeking a change. 

All the people I know who ever expressed a desire to be a police officer or get into LE have already done so, none wanted to be Mounties (at least as their first choice)

By the way. The FBI (DEA, ATF, etc) also have the you go anywhere we say clause as the RCMP.

I am aware, the difference is what they are do when they start. A person who has spent years to become an expert say in computer forensics or forensic accounting might be more inclined to join an organization that can put them in a position to continue to utilize that expertise right away (even if it means moving across the country), rather than spend x number of years doing something else and having skill fade set in before they might be given an opportunity to put those skills to work again.

As far as holding up our friends to the south as being more "advanced" (my interpretation of your comments) with their many agencies and how they do it. I will give them credit in lots of areas (some great schools, units,etc). But remember they have also gotten huge criticism for their silo attitude, infighting, lack of coordination (some of the reasons that many agencies were pulled into Homeland Security).

I don't know how you got the impression I think they are more advanced, I was simply highlighting that perhaps we could learn something from how they operate, since their model is quite different from ours. And yes I aware US agencies have had their issues working together, but the RCMP has been know to not play nicely with others as well.

Perhaps another organization to look at would be the Australians, and the Australian Federal Police.
 

Alberta Bound

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HM,

Everyone has issues with diversity. Policing is just a hard sell for many in this day and age.

I just know that if we closed Contract Policing and every member wanted to stay. The Feds would never let us keep the bodies.

Amending the Police Act would be no big deal for that. Other similar changes have been done before. Some RCMP already have provincial powers in Ontario. When we started to send Cadets to Ontario and Quebec some years ago we partnered with a number of Forces back there so that our guys did a portion of their field training in a contract environment. I believe Peel Regional was one but would have to dig to find out the specifics. We also sent guys up to the NWT and NU to get experience.

It is not well known but the RCMP also brings in some specialists as Civilian Members directly. We also used to hire some specialists as Special Constables (easy way to post them into specific posts, separate pay categories and Peace Officer status) without them going through the Regular Member process. For some reason we stopped that.

Ahhh, love the Aussie`s. Great bunch.

Good points though.

I still think TO tried the International recruiting at one point (maybe looking for diversification). Have to do some research.
 

McG

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This concern seems to be getting attention again.

Terror fight hampering work on other files, senior Mountie says
'There are situations where we do not have the luxury of time'

Jim Bronskill
CBC News
21 Apr 2015

Shifting hundreds of RCMP officers to counter-terrorism duty has hurt the national police force's efforts to fight organized crime and espionage, a senior Mountie says.

The resource challenge is "negatively impacting" the force's ability to do everything it's expected to do, says Mike Cabana, deputy RCMP commissioner for federal policing.

"As a result, the RCMP recognizes that it needs to find a longer-term solution to be able to respond to the breadth of its federal policing mandate," Cabana told the Senate national security committee Monday.

"I can't tell you what our solution is because we don't have a solution right now. So we are looking at options."

Concerns about the threat of homegrown extremism have prompted the RCMP to move more than 600 officers to the terrorism file from organized crime cases and other areas.

That has prompted criticism from the NDP and Liberal public safety critics that the Mounties are being stretched too thin.

...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/terror-fight-hampering-work-on-other-files-senior-mountie-says-1.3041775
 

MarkOttawa

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Start and end of a post:

The RCMP is Stretched to the Limit and Beyond in a Number of Fields, Part 2

Further to this post,

Yes, Justin, There is a Serious Foreign Interference Threat in Canada–and, by the way, the RCMP is Stretched to the Limit and Beyond in a Number of Fields

more details on the sorry state of our Mounties, once a proud symbol of Canada and now crumbling from the inside–from a story by Jim Bronskill (tweets here) of the Canadian Press...

The RCMP simply has to try to carry out too many distinct missions within a single organization with a common recruitment, training and personnel system for uniformed and other peace officer members. Contract policing should become a distinct service retaining the uniforms as well as residual routine federal policing. New, separate investigative and enforcement bodies, largely non-uniformed, should be created to deal with: 1) organized crime and drug trafficking; 2) counter-terrorism, espionage; and 3) cyber crime and white collar crime (the RCMP has a horrible record in the latter area. e.g. money-laundering–see this story” “No federally funded RCMP officers dedicated to money laundering in B.C., report reveals“). Border policing outside ports of entry should become the responsibility of the Canadian Border Services Agency.

I’m sure the structure proposed above could be refined and improved. But it’s clear the Force is just about broke (in both senses) and badly in need of fixin’.

And a post from 2016:

RCMP’s Anti-Terrorism Fight Giving Mob Increasingly Free Pass
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/05/24/the-rcmp-is-stretched-to-the-limit-and-beyond-in-a-number-of-fields-part-2/

Mark
Ottawa
 

FJAG

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I really don't see the contract services to provinces and municipalities as a major problem in that the provinces/municipalities pay for those services. If the RCMP is not covering issues such as cyber crime, terrorism etc well, its because of a lack of federal funding for such areas. Unfortunately the RCMP manning is structured to follow the money.

:cheers:
 

OldSolduer

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FJAG said:
I really don't see the contract services to provinces and municipalities as a major problem in that the provinces/municipalities pay for those services. If the RCMP is not covering issues such as cyber crime, terrorism etc well, its because of a lack of federal funding for such areas. Unfortunately the RCMP manning is structured to follow the money.

:cheers:

And it’s politicized. Has been for over 30 years
 

lenaitch

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FJAG said:
I really don't see the contract services to provinces and municipalities as a major problem in that the provinces/municipalities pay for those services. If the RCMP is not covering issues such as cyber crime, terrorism etc well, its because of a lack of federal funding for such areas. Unfortunately the RCMP manning is structured to follow the money.

:cheers:

I totally agree.  Although I believe there is some federal funding component to support provincial contract services, it boils down to a matter of adequate funding for the federal services.  Actually, probably all of the staffing woes boil down primarily to a matter of funding.  Federal and contract services are already organizationally separate.  If the goal was to create a completely separate organization for federal policing (however that is defined), I can't see how it could be set up, national-wide, without a massive expense in areas that would largely parallel the existing RCMP infrastructure.

If I recall correctly, the previous Security Services was not a law enforcement body.  It was an investigative service that conducted surveillance and gathered evidence but it required the police of jurisdiction to put the puck in the net; similar, to a large degree, of current CSIS operations.  I stand to be corrected - it has been many years.

It doesn't matter if you are doing RCMP federal enforcement or major criminal investigations for a municipal police service.  You learn the fundamental skills by starting out doing PD collisions, break-ins, domestics, etc.  I didn't work a lot with RCMP members, but did work with some who started right into 'O' Division from Depot and others who came in from a contract province.  The differences in basic things like how they related to people was often noticeable.

Earlier posts draw parallels with the FBI and other US federal agencies.  Their federal law enforcement agencies exist because of their Constitutional structure.  The various federal enforcement agencies exist to enforce their silo of federal law; criminal law is state-based.  Steal a car in Ohio and you've broken Ohio criminal law; drive it to Indiana and you've committed a federal crime.  According to Wiki, there are 17,985 federal, state and local law enforcement agencies in the US, which is a model I don't think we want to emulate.
 
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