Quitting the Forces

[mdh]

Folks,

After reading so many messages on this excellent board from so many former reservists and regular force soldiers I thought this might be a timely question to ask.  There is a lot of collective military experience on this site from retired CF members - god knows how many total years if you added it all up.  We have had countless threads about the hard reality of military life: ranging from the impact of tours on family, daunting training requirements/commitments for reservists, frustrated career ambitions, maddening bureaucracy, indifferent leadership, etc.

In so many ways this site showcases the CF - yet it can also be read as the mirror opposite: a conduit of cynicism/skepticism about the CF as a career choice. As several profiles testify, a lot of people here have served for a few years in the reserves or regs and left the service.

So I thought I would pose the question: Why did you quit?

cheers, mdh 

 

[Bean]

While I've never had the privledge of serving in the Regs, I did start my CF life in the PRes.  Left and went to the CIC only because at the time my employer would not have allowed for me to take the time for deployments or long extended training.  As I've worked up the corproate food chain, things have changed, but the CIC provides me the most flexibility,  It comes down to making the choice of either the unpredicatable life of class B service or the stability of solid employment long-term.  I woosed out and went with stability, and eventually couldn't be effective in the PRes without the ability to put in all the time.  CIC is not a bad option though, my time in the PRes has definitely aided my cadets and a number of junior officers gain some perspective, not to mention keeps me in check most of the time.

 

[Kirkhill]

Right question mdh.

In a word, "Marriage".

As a single guy in Calgary I spent more than my fair share of time down at the Armouries, never missed a training day or an ex and went on course in the summer.  Continued that for 3 years.
I ran into a family hiccup while I was in Gagetown that saw me have to withdraw from course (phase 2) and ended up in Regina where I joined the Johns.  Met the wife and got a new job that would:

A, require me to be on the road a lot
B, require my Saskatchewan raised wife and I to move Ontario.

The prospect of spending ALL of my life away from her, didn't appeal, especially since it meant leaving her alone in a strange place and would also have meant using precious vacation time to advance my Reserve career.  And I had no desire to go the route of so many of my fellow militiamen that devoted so much of their lives to the Reserves that they were verging on serial monogamy given the number of wives they were going through.

The desire to serve never went away, still exists to this day despite being, in the immortal words of a Danish buddy "40, fat and finished" but service just was not compatible with a family life and a job that requires a lot of travel.

Unfortunately for the CF, a good chunk of the high-paying jobs in the civvy world demand 60 hour weeks and a lot of travel that will tend to keep people like myself out of the system.

Cheers, and thanks for asking.

 

[buckahed]

Where to start?

1 in 4 home port duty watches, sailing with 40% unqualified crew, getting towed out to anchor in Bedford basin to finish repairs because the dockie unions were playing games, every chief in the navy being offered career extensions so I might make PO1 before I retired, getting 9 years sea pay with 11 years in, lowest seatime per year was 6 months with foreign port visits cut to save money,the average was closer to 9 months, a wardroom that rotated so fast I never bothered learning their names, waiting at harbour stations for a boat to come in from sea so we could press gang enough bodies to sail, squadron offices that   "worked" from 0800 to 1600 and god help you if you needed something from squadron at 1605,

The final straw for me was when an admiral traisped down from Ottawa with his entourage and held a squadron call to order us to stop complaining because he had the report in his hand to prove the average posting to the squadron was 18 months. There were 4 of us PO's sitting in a row that all had over 5 years in the squadron. I had 6. An hour later my career mangler read my UER, obviously for the first time, got a nervous expression on his face and when I asked point blank when I could expect a transfer out of the squadron or a shore posting, just started to umm and aahhh.

I had a lot of mixed feelings when the whole mess went public a few months after I was out. The press got a lot of it wrong, but at least there was enough of a scandal that a few people got booted and the squadron got tied up for a while to clean things up.

 

[mdh]

Where to start?

1 in 4 home port duty watches, sailing with 40% unqualified crew, getting towed out to anchor in Bedford basin to finish repairs because the dockie unions were playing games, every chief in the navy being offered career extensions so I might make PO1 before I retired, getting 9 years sea pay with 11 years in, lowest seatime per year was 6 months with foreign port visits cut to save money,the average was closer to 9 months, a wardroom that rotated so fast I never bothered learning their names, waiting at harbour stations for a boat to come in from sea so we could press gang enough bodies to sail, squadron offices that   "worked" from 0800 to 1600 and god help you if you needed something from squadron at 1605,

The final straw for me was when an admiral traisped down from Ottawa with his entourage and held a squadron call to order us to stop complaining because he had the report in his hand to prove the average posting to the squadron was 18 months. There were 4 of us PO's sitting in a row that all had over 5 years in the squadron. I had 6. An hour later my career mangler read my UER, obviously for the first time, got a nervous expression on his face and when I asked point blank when I could expect a transfer out of the squadron or a shore posting, just started to umm and aahhh.

I had a lot of mixed feelings when the whole mess went public a few months after I was out. The press got a lot of it wrong, but at least there was enough of a scandal that a few people got booted and the squadron got tied up for a while to clean things up.

Ouch Buckahed! You could give George Kostanza a run for his money....

Kirkhill,

I can certainly relate to the marriage and job pressures.   After coming back to the reserves after a long absence (I quit the first time because of school pressures and juvenile indfference), it is still a challenge to balance both and remain an asset to the unit.   With a recent promotion in the civvie world, it's been even more difficult.  

I don't think that the Militia will ever solve the problem of accommodating working professionals - even though they have made several noble attempts over the years via the old MITCP and even the current modular training system.   It could be one of those insoluable problems that always haunts the nature of a part-time military organization.   That's too bad because I sincerely believe there is a role to play for soldiers who aren't students and who could provide a more stable presence,

cheers, mdh

 

[Kirkhill]

It could be one of those insoluable problems that always haunts the nature of a part-time military organization.  That's too bad because I sincerely believe there is a role to play for soldiers who aren't students and who could provide a more stable presence,

I definitely agree with you on the stabilizing influence.  And unfortunately I tend to agree with you on insolubility aspect.  Although sometimes I wonder if more could not be made out of the Supp List.

Some of us might be able to contribute on a volunteer basis.  Speaking for myself, while not able to keep up with the youngsters running around in the woods , I like to think that there are other fields in which I might be able to contribute in the support/adm/int/comms fields.  A security clearance, access to the mess and an opportunity to contribute, maybe even a uniform worn once a year (extra-large if you please ;D) would probably buy me.  And I think a number of others as well.....

 

[Meridian]

And it would make a lively mess at that.... 

 

[Infanteer]

I definitely agree with you on the stabilizing influence.   And unfortunately I tend to agree with you on insolubility aspect.   Although sometimes I wonder if more could not be made out of the Supp List.

Some of us might be able to contribute on a volunteer basis.   Speaking for myself, while not able to keep up with the youngsters running around in the woods , I like to think that there are other fields in which I might be able to contribute in the support/adm/int/comms fields.   A security clearance, access to the mess and an opportunity to contribute, maybe even a uniform worn once a year (extra-large if you please ;D) would probably buy me.   And I think a number of others as well.....

How about the "Territorial" troops? 

Anyways, back to the "getting out" stories....

 

[karl28]

When I was 20 I was in the Hastp's for almost a year completed basic  but never any furthere . I wanted to be a medic  and they wanted me to be infantry we didn't see eye to eye . Bigest mistake I ever made in my life I have regrated ever sense .  I am doing alright now I am a PSW with a home care company but I am know where near the physical shape that I had been thats the part I hate the most . I am trying to save up for a gym membership again to get back into shape maby some day I could get back in who know's . So for all you guys that are in CF love every minute off it civy life sucks not as much fun .

 

[buckahed]

Gee, mdh, I'm not that bitter. Quite.  I have to admit, though, the stuff coming out this week about the Chicoutimi inquiry and the training problems is really starting to get me , ummm .....  annoyed.

Deja vu all over again.

 

[winchable]

The following is an exception to the rule and not the normal:

Asked how good my chances were of getting put on board.
They said "4 years minmum and then you have to submit anothe transfer"

(My last transfer which took 2 years)

I decided I would apply to the royal forces (Given that I am also a British citizen) and see what my options were.

This was 2 years ago.
I've seen what I am allowed to do since and realised where I belong.

The short and the least de-moralising, if you want the whole story, PM me

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

....after 10 years I just started to worry about the "getting a trade" thing but could not see myself remustering so I just said enough and booked it,.... no regrets and a whole lot of thanks to those who "guided" me away from being that snotty little 17 year-old......

 

[mdh]

Asked how good my chances were of getting put on board.
They said "4 years minmum and then you have to submit anothe transfer"

Sorry Che I am not following you here - do you mean on board a ship? I think you're a MARS guy aren't you??

 

[PeterLT]

I didn't quit. I was tossed on a medical in 1998 when I was deemed G4O4 after falling in an old unfilled trench and busting my back . The term "undeployable" was the nail that sealed the casket. Over my 25 years I had a good run and it seemed rather a fitting way to end after spending much time in the field. But I do miss it very much. Having said that I should say that it's my fellow Soldiers that I miss the most. Sometimes when I speak to civies I feel like I was born with the wrong brain. Soldiers have a very different way of thinking which no one but soldiers can understand. Needless to say, I really enjoy this forum.

I sometimes wonder if I would have stayed much longer. I was at the point where I was really getting tired and PO'd with the "do more with less" politically correct credo that has crept into the service. It's a sorry statement when the measure of a unit's viability is fiscal accountability instead of combat readiness. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Peter

 

[winchable]

Yeah, sorry that's an interesting internet phenomena where you have a few pints, type a post and realise the next morning it's barely english.

Was a MARS guy, released myself recently from the CF.
Realised that my chances of getting on board a ship were slim to none for another 4-6 years and didn't want to go about anymore transferring (as I had transferred into the navy already which took a long time) So I applied for voluntary release, which went through quite well.

In my situation then, I couldn't afford to leave school to do the training to get on board.
Now I'm not in school anymore, but a transfer to the regs to do some expedited training is going to take as long as it will to apply to the Royal forces (which take us uneducated folk)
Fallen in love with my new choice since and couldn't see myself doing anything else.

 

[mdh]

Hi Che,

Thanks for the clarification - I've had many pint-inspired bouts of literary creativity myself.  :-X Good luck with the Royal Navy - I know that other posters on the board have had a tough time trying to sign on to the British Army.  I believe the RN has some week-long marathon style application process where they do everything except get you to swill down three bottles of rum in 30 minutes and swing from a rope with a knife in your mouth from mast to mast singing old naval ditties, cheers, mdh

 

[winchable]

I'm a British citizen so it's quite a bit easier for me to apply, in fact it is taking less time then it took me to get in here!

As for the week long induction *ahem*

      "  I am the very model of a modern Major General,
          I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
          I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
          From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical;
          I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
          I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical,
          About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
          With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse. "

Now I just need to practice my "yarring" and put on a ridiculous hat.

 

[mdh]

Wow, you're in! 

 

[Torlyn]

Was a MARS guy, released myself recently from the CF.
Realised that my chances of getting on board a ship were slim to none for another 4-6 years and didn't want to go about anymore transferring (as I had transferred into the navy already which took a long time) So I applied for voluntary release, which went through quite well.

Um, pardon??  As you know, I'm a MARS wannabe...  How much ship time is there??  I'm a bit worried now...  ???

T

 

[winchable]

That was specific to my case.
I was going to school, and wouldn't have been able to do the MARS training in any great length until after university was over.

Add to that the fact that MARS training is some of the longest (including OJT) in the navy and there's a chance I wouldn't have seen ship duty for ages.

Don't worry though. There's always a huge demand for MARS officers and as long as your competent at your job you'll see ship time from what I hear, but like I said in my situation it was going to take quite some time, time that I don't have.